1. #31186
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    Restaurant that took anti-mask stance now says it will only serve unvaccinated diners






    I wonder what the Restaurant's Insurance Company thinks about this?
    All of the restaurants that have gone out of business during the pandemic, how the f*** is this one still in business?

  2. #31187
    Ultimate Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by worstblogever View Post
    I actually wondered if the timing might not be right for doing the Voting Rights Act just yet... but it needs to be before 2022.

    Because here's the thing... the minute it passes, through whatever magic Democrats have to pull off that miracle in the House and Senate (particularly the Senate, what with it meaning Synema & Manchin would have to STFU about the filibuster).... the minute it passes, Republicans are going to bitterly file a legal challenge. They're going to try to get injunctions passed to keep their voter suppression laws in place. Provided judges don't rule to put an injunction on a new VRA...

    My point is, the last thing you want to do is pass it too soon, and give it time to get kicked up to the Supreme Court, where Roberts won't seem so "moderate", and Kegs Kavanaugh, Coney Island Hot Dawg, & Gorsuch Mommy Nepotism are all waiting to team of with Alito, and Thomas to shoot the whole thing down again. None of them support voting rights in ways that I think even one of them would flip, let alone two.

    So if you slow walk it, and it drops in time for 2022 elections say... around May of 2022 or so, I think it will miss its window to get challenged in lower courts before it might reach all the way up to the folks waiting with the axe. But if they do it right now, it's going to be on the docket for next June to get torn apart or overturned completely and in November when they truly need it, it's gone.
    So it's sort of like a football game late in the fourth quarter, where one team doesn't want to score too quickly because it would give the other team enough time to score and run out the clock. It's basically who scores last before the election.
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    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    The others are still operating on the misguided idea that acting like Trump will put them in power and ensure that they get re-elected. Democracy doesn't work that way. In truth, most times it is a dice roil.

    Demographics change over time, attitudes change over time, those people who are Trump supporters now might have children who will grow up voting Democrat [maybe they disagree with think parents, or to PO their parents or because they think their parents are crazy]. Old conservative people move away or pass away, new liberal people might then move in, or visa versa.

    Politicians should never place their bets that their base will stay the same forever. Politicians should never place their bets that crazy is the norm (its not).
    Much of what Republicans are doing makes sense strategically, given that they're saddled with a former President incapable of putting his own needs second. He has no problem burning down the party if they offend him.

    In the short term, they need people who like Trump in order to win any close elections, especially considering the distribution of his supporters in the midwest.

    The preference is that Trump fades away. Making everything a referendum on Trump rekindles the passions of his supporters.

    Purely in terms of maximizing their ability to win the next big elections, what should Republican officials do?

    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I agree with this. But some Dems and Biden are so busy taking the high road that they dont get as aggressive as they should on things like this and it is hurting. Do what the QOP does. Play dirty. Go for the sound bite.
    Would going dirty help Democrats win? If they alienate Manchin, they lose with 49 votes. And they lose the ability to use election reform as a mechanism to boost turnout when more voters see their efforts as dishonest.

    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    Everything you said makes perfect sense. That leads me to wonder if Moscow Mitch has an inkling about that strategy to slow walk the VRA for all the reasons you illustrated? Say what you will about McConnell, but one thing he's not is stupid, could he insist on wanting the VRA fast tracked, knowing Biden and Democrats would be eager to see it passed, then have the Supremes kill it? Or, would that move put Mitch at odds with fellow Qpublicans who don't want their precious voter suppression bills attacked? How would those scenarios play out?
    For McConnell to be aware of a strategy to slowwalk a VRA related bill, there would need to be an actual strategy to slow walk something important.

    This seems unlikely.

    The Democrats have the narrowest possible majority, and can lose everything with one party flip, resignation or accident. They're dependent on two people in Arizona, two people in Georgia, and elderly men from West Virginia, Montana, and Ohio, all states with Republican Governors. This is before we consider other swing states or Vermont, a state with a 79 year old heart attack survivor, an 81 year old, and an immensely popular Republican Governor.

    I hope nothing bad happens to any sitting Senator, but there's way too much on the line for Democrats to wait for perfect timing. I suspect their leadership recognizes this.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    All of the restaurants that have gone out of business during the pandemic, how the f*** is this one still in business?
    It seems three things are possible.

    It could be that there's a very large constituency for anti-mask restaurants in Huntington Beach, California (a city that is slightly Republican.)
    It could be that residents and customers view this place differently than the national media does, viewing the request for proof of unvaccination (which is pretty much impossible) as unserious from a local eccentric.
    Finally, it could be that the owners are doing it more as a hobby and made their money elsewhere.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

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    Astonishing Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Much of what Republicans are doing makes sense strategically, given that they're saddled with a former President incapable of putting his own needs second. He has no problem burning down the party if they offend him.

    In the short term, they need people who like Trump in order to win any close elections, especially considering the distribution of his supporters in the midwest.

    The preference is that Trump fades away. Making everything a referendum on Trump rekindles the passions of his supporters.

    Purely in terms of maximizing their ability to win the next big elections, what should Republican officials do?

    Would going dirty help Democrats win? If they alienate Manchin, they lose with 49 votes. And they lose the ability to use election reform as a mechanism to boost turnout when more voters see their efforts as dishonest.

    For McConnell to be aware of a strategy to slowwalk a VRA related bill, there would need to be an actual strategy to slow walk something important.

    This seems unlikely.

    The Democrats have the narrowest possible majority, and can lose everything with one party flip, resignation or accident. They're dependent on two people in Arizona, two people in Georgia, and elderly men from West Virginia, Montana, and Ohio, all states with Republican Governors. This is before we consider other swing states or Vermont, a state with a 79 year old heart attack survivor, an 81 year old, and an immensely popular Republican Governor.

    I hope nothing bad happens to any sitting Senator, but there's way too much on the line for Democrats to wait for perfect timing. I suspect their leadership recognizes this.

    It seems three things are possible.

    It could be that there's a very large constituency for anti-mask restaurants in Huntington Beach, California (a city that is slightly Republican.)
    It could be that residents and customers view this place differently than the national media does, viewing the request for proof of unvaccination (which is pretty much impossible) as unserious from a local eccentric.
    Finally, it could be that the owners are doing it more as a hobby and made their money elsewhere.
    What should Republicans officials do?

    That's the kind of question that just makes me not get conservatives because the answer is simple.

    It's clear that President Trump was toxic, and the attack on the Capital should have been that wake up call...those people aren't something you should pander to they're something you should be embarrassed of and move away from as fast as you can. By not doing that it just means you think that kind of behavior and thinking is acceptable.

  5. #31190
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSTowle View Post
    That was just my guess/speculation, it's an artsy type of hobby (even if it's only mostly on the consumer's end of the art) so I can see that skewing left. As opposed to maybe a video game chatboard or sports talk. While I suppose we've never had much of a balance politically for posters on this line of threads, it's gotten worse since the changeover and the banning at the drop of a hat. Also, and here my bias may be showing, most of the conservative arguments on these boards tend to be insulting and emotional and without much in the way of an actual argument or logic. When people on the left call them on that the reaction it's usually to insult back and forth for a bit and then retreat.

    Why I've praised you in the past, because even when I (or others) disagree with you there's usually an argument given and the logic behind what you're thinking (whether, again, we agree with it or not) and you're much more likely to be insulted than to give insults. And I'd say there's plenty of emotional and illogical arguments that reflexively defend some politicians and policies on the left/center, they're just less likely to be called out because of the political makeup of the people posting. You can also get the same insult for insult or a kick-circle of insults attempting to silence someone going against the narrative. Why I try to point that out when I see it, it's not great behavior and not a good look for confidence in one's argument.

    I get being upset, there's been a lot in the last four years to be upset about and we're not even to the hard push to ban abortion rights or seeing the outcome of voter suppression, but it's better to take a beat and articulate the best argument for what you're thinking with as little insult or emotion as possible. Insults and emotion make it a lot easier to dismiss an argument if someone isn't inclined already to agree with you. Logic/rationality might not make them agree with you either, but it makes it harder to dismiss outright as they're going to want to do (few like having their beliefs undermined or questioned).
    On the question of demographics, I'd assume there are quite a few conservative comic book fans, as it's a hobby that includes a lot of white men with a particular type of moral code and a tendency towards individualism. In so many superhero comics, inept government officials get in the way. I agree with the rest of what you say.

    I can't say much about the political threads were before the turnover. I wasn't active in the community forum then. A balance is unlikely for a variety of reasons.

    I can understand how arguments about politics get heated. Ultimately, if someone's on the wrong side, that is consequential. When officials make mistakes, people are unable to reach their full potential and many will die before their time. I've made my peace with the implications of that, recognizing that decent people will argue for things that have terrible consequences, while being humble enough to recognize that I'll likely be wrong on some stuff, and figuring there may be times when there are positive tradeoffs in different perspectives (IE- if you're able to get more public support for a necessary policy or are able to recognize when an extreme step is not merited.) I think many people don't recognize that they may be wrong, or that disagreement can result in better outcomes.

    Whenever people are too similar in their outlook, there are potential problems of groupthink, and an inability to recognize something outside of a particular frame of reference. There's a tendency to view the other side with the least generous interpretation of their motives or understanding. This should be avoided.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

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    Astonishing Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Would going dirty help Democrats win? If they alienate Manchin, they lose with 49 votes. And they lose the ability to use election reform as a mechanism to boost turnout when more voters see their efforts as dishonest.
    Not so much being dirty in breaking the rules. But not taking the high road all the time. They need to call out the GOP. I havnt really heard any of them point out or ask Why Get or Green were trying to hold a rally in support of the Jan 6th Terrorists why Cops were testifying about almost being killed and being bombarded with racial slurs. They dont do a good enough job of calling the GOP out on the bullshit. They depend on the talking heads on CNN to say stuff but they remain quiet. If I were in the house or on that committee I would be screaming from the rafters about that press conference. I would be asking why they felt the need to have one that defends these people while the police were giving their accounts?

    That is what I mean by playing dirty. The Dems are so busy taking the high road they ignore the GOP making massive pot holes in that road.
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  7. #31192
    Astonishing Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    On the question of demographics, I'd assume there are quite a few conservative comic book fans, as it's a hobby that includes a lot of white men with a particular type of moral code and a tendency towards individualism. In so many superhero comics, inept government officials get in the way. I agree with the rest of what you say.

    I can't say much about the political threads were before the turnover. I wasn't active in the community forum then. A balance is unlikely for a variety of reasons.

    I can understand how arguments about politics get heated. Ultimately, if someone's on the wrong side, that is consequential. When officials make mistakes, people are unable to reach their full potential and many will die before their time. I've made my peace with the implications of that, recognizing that decent people will argue for things that have terrible consequences, while being humble enough to recognize that I'll likely be wrong on some stuff, and figuring there may be times when there are positive tradeoffs in different perspectives (IE- if you're able to get more public support for a necessary policy or are able to recognize when an extreme step is not merited.) I think many people don't recognize that they may be wrong, or that disagreement can result in better outcomes.

    Whenever people are too similar in their outlook, there are potential problems of groupthink, and an inability to recognize something outside of a particular frame of reference. There's a tendency to view the other side with the least generous interpretation of their motives or understanding. This should be avoided.
    It's kind of hard not to do that these days, if the conservatives in charge did even just a little bit to disavow the lunatics and say that those views don't represent their party instead of constantly defending and pandering to them maybe people on the left could see them as just well meaning folks with a different perspective.

  8. #31193
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    Not so much being dirty in breaking the rules. But not taking the high road all the time. They need to call out the GOP. I havnt really heard any of them point out or ask Why Get or Green were trying to hold a rally in support of the Jan 6th Terrorists why Cops were testifying about almost being killed and being bombarded with racial slurs. They dont do a good enough job of calling the GOP out on the bullshit. They depend on the talking heads on CNN to say stuff but they remain quiet. If I were in the house or on that committee I would be screaming from the rafters about that press conference. I would be asking why they felt the need to have one that defends these people while the police were giving their accounts?

    That is what I mean by playing dirty. The Dems are so busy taking the high road they ignore the GOP making massive pot holes in that road.
    We know why Gaetz and Greene were holding a rally. They're douchebags.

    The argument for legislators would be whether it makes sense to elevate the worst of their colleagues. It might not persuade voters, and it will alienate legislators whose votes they sometimes need.

    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    What should Republicans officials do?

    That's the kind of question that just makes me not get conservatives because the answer is simple.

    It's clear that President Trump was toxic, and the attack on the Capital should have been that wake up call...those people aren't something you should pander to they're something you should be embarrassed of and move away from as fast as you can. By not doing that it just means you think that kind of behavior and thinking is acceptable.
    I want to be clear that I'm considering this from a strategy perspective.

    Morally, the best thing for a conservatives to do would be to note Trump's myriad flaws, and the mistakes of his supporters. But that's unlikely to work well in the short-term, since a backlash from Trump supporters could help Democrats institute policies that Republicans think are bad for the country (high spending, more restrictions on business, amnesty for undocumented immigrants, etc.)

    If there's a handful of Republican officials coordinating together, they have to worry about elections. If they were aggressively anti-Trump, that could encourage Trump supporters to double-down on support for a former President. That might help primary challengers, and it could also lead to depressed turnout in the general election. The main preference for officials would be to talk about other stuff, which is likely to happen when we have new political arguments and people feel less strongly about current political arguments.

    Democrats would prefer lower Republican turnout in November 2022, as well as Republicans nominating weaker general election candidates, and people paying less attention to any of their mistakes or unpopular positions, so conversation about Trump is in their interests.

    There are going to be idiots on the right who see an incentive in being aggressively pro-Trump, as a way to win primaries or raise money, so that also complicates matters.

    There are some indications Trump is waning. Yesterday, his endorsed candidate in a red district primary, the widow of the congressman being replaced, lost to a state legislator.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...lection-501153


    I'm not sure this is wise for Pelosi.

    Mask mandates are less popular post-vaccine. The main purpose is to protect the unvaccinated, who at this point, largely made their decision.

    https://www.vox.com/2021/7/28/225946...delta-variants
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  9. #31194
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    This feels like a Vince Russo-esque 90s double turn.

    McConnell bemoans COVID-19 vaccine misinformation.
    Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell blamed misinformation for the low rates of COVID-19 vaccination among Americans, which are fueling a rise in coronavirus cases, particularly in Republican-dominated states.


    I'm waiting for the SWERVE.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

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    Astonishing Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    We know why Gaetz and Greene were holding a rally. They're douchebags.

    The argument for legislators would be whether it makes sense to elevate the worst of their colleagues. It might not persuade voters, and it will alienate legislators whose votes they sometimes need.

    I want to be clear that I'm considering this from a strategy perspective.[/url]
    I feel if that is the Dems thoughts it is kind of dumb. There are a lot of people that need to be called out, and I dont think the push back on the Dems for calling out people like Getz and Green would be all that bad. And as for needing the votes of these people later on? Greene and Getz and people of their little cult are not going to go along with Biden and Pelosi anyway. So if this is the Dems plan it is not that smart on their part.
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    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    It seems three things are possible.

    It could be that there's a very large constituency for anti-mask restaurants in Huntington Beach, California (a city that is slightly Republican.)
    It could be that residents and customers view this place differently than the national media does, viewing the request for proof of unvaccination (which is pretty much impossible) as unserious from a local eccentric.
    Finally, it could be that the owners are doing it more as a hobby and made their money elsewhere.
    Good points.

    Guess I'm still sore about my favorite rib joint closing.

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    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    Not so much being dirty in breaking the rules. But not taking the high road all the time. They need to call out the GOP. I havnt really heard any of them point out or ask Why Get or Green were trying to hold a rally in support of the Jan 6th Terrorists why Cops were testifying about almost being killed and being bombarded with racial slurs. They dont do a good enough job of calling the GOP out on the bullshit. They depend on the talking heads on CNN to say stuff but they remain quiet. If I were in the house or on that committee I would be screaming from the rafters about that press conference. I would be asking why they felt the need to have one that defends these people while the police were giving their accounts?

    That is what I mean by playing dirty. The Dems are so busy taking the high road they ignore the GOP making massive pot holes in that road.
    Well, Pelosi called McCarthy a moron today. Baby steps.



    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    This feels like a Vince Russo-esque 90s double turn.

    McConnell bemoans COVID-19 vaccine misinformation.

    I'm waiting for the SWERVE.
    Mitch McConnell as The Higher Power. "IT WAS ME, BIDEN!!!! IT WAS ME ALL ALONG!!!!!"

  13. #31198
    Astonishing Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    We know why Gaetz and Greene were holding a rally. They're douchebags.

    The argument for legislators would be whether it makes sense to elevate the worst of their colleagues. It might not persuade voters, and it will alienate legislators whose votes they sometimes need.

    I want to be clear that I'm considering this from a strategy perspective.

    Morally, the best thing for a conservatives to do would be to note Trump's myriad flaws, and the mistakes of his supporters. But that's unlikely to work well in the short-term, since a backlash from Trump supporters could help Democrats institute policies that Republicans think are bad for the country (high spending, more restrictions on business, amnesty for undocumented immigrants, etc.)

    If there's a handful of Republican officials coordinating together, they have to worry about elections. If they were aggressively anti-Trump, that could encourage Trump supporters to double-down on support for a former President. That might help primary challengers, and it could also lead to depressed turnout in the general election. The main preference for officials would be to talk about other stuff, which is likely to happen when we have new political arguments and people feel less strongly about current political arguments.

    Democrats would prefer lower Republican turnout in November 2022, as well as Republicans nominating weaker general election candidates, and people paying less attention to any of their mistakes or unpopular positions, so conversation about Trump is in their interests.

    There are going to be idiots on the right who see an incentive in being aggressively pro-Trump, as a way to win primaries or raise money, so that also complicates matters.

    There are some indications Trump is waning. Yesterday, his endorsed candidate in a red district primary, the widow of the congressman being replaced, lost to a state legislator.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...lection-501153


    I'm not sure this is wise for Pelosi.

    Mask mandates are less popular post-vaccine. The main purpose is to protect the unvaccinated, who at this point, largely made their decision.

    https://www.vox.com/2021/7/28/225946...delta-variants
    Even from a strategy stand point it's the wrong move, it just reeks of politics as a game and not governing. The behavior of Trump and his followers is bad for the country period, and if not appealing to them and your best to squash their influence leads to short term losses then that's the responsible move...and if you can't win with out appealing to those people then maybe you shouldn't win.

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    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    This feels like a Vince Russo-esque 90s double turn.

    McConnell bemoans COVID-19 vaccine misinformation.

    Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell blamed misinformation for the low rates of COVID-19 vaccination among Americans, which are fueling a rise in coronavirus cases, particularly in Republican-dominated states.



    I'm waiting for the SWERVE.
    The guy is probably in one of, if not his last, times around the track.

    He can pretty well do just about any nonsense he finds himself thinking about doing.

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    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    This feels like a Vince Russo-esque 90s double turn.

    McConnell bemoans COVID-19 vaccine misinformation.




    I'm waiting for the SWERVE.
    All of Mitchocrite's machinations will be for naught if too many Republican voters die before everything is ready.
    Dark does not mean deep.

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