All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[The Cool Thatguy]

Given how Israel knew about the attack for over a year, it was the Israeli government who allowed Hamas to carry out the attack.

Umm, no.

Israel should have been better prepared, yes.

But Hamas are not animals, they are human beings. And just as they made the choice to attack and rape, murder and mutilate innocent civilians, they could have made the choice NOT to.

They are not a lesser lifeform who must have decisions made for them.

I've been on this planet little over 4 decades now, and I've never murdered a baby. It's a pretty damn easy thing not to do.

[shooshoomanjoe]

As opposed to what?

Going into the country that they are currently waging the war you have be critical of in, and doing something along the lines of what you say they should not be doing?

They could have beefed up security at the border, they could have placed the military bases that were attacked on high alert, they could have had a rapid response unit nearby, they could have had their air assault units on stand by, they could have used drones to patrol the border. But I think Benjamin wanted this attack to happen so he let it happen.

[shooshoomanjoe]

Umm, no.

Israel should have been better prepared, yes.

But Hamas are not animals, they are human beings. And just as they made the choice to attack and rape, murder and mutilate innocent civilians, they could have made the choice NOT to.

They are not a lesser lifeform who must have decisions made for them.

I've been on this planet little over 4 decades now, and I've never murdered a baby. It's a pretty damn easy thing not to do.

Israel has been killing babies far longer than Hamas has.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Israel has been killing babies far longer than Hamas has.

Hmm, interesting way to dodge the point being made.

Also, if we must boil it down, I'd point out that Israel has the ability, and has had the ability for some time, to wipe the Palestinians off the map. They have not.

Do you think Hamas would show them the same consideration, if positions were reversed?

[shooshoomanjoe]

Hmm, interesting way to dodge the point being made.

Also, if we must boil it down, I'd point out that Israel has the ability, and has had the ability for some time, to wipe the Palestinians off the map. They have not.

Do you think Hamas would show them the same consideration, if positions were reversed?

You honestly believe Israel hasn't nuked Palestine because they are showing restraint? It couldn't be because they don't want the nuclear fallout to enter Israel or the flack received from the western world? How many countries have nukes and how many nukes have been used during war time?

[Jack Dracula]

Armchair quarterbacking serves no purpose.
People with opinions should go study the full history of the conflict before commenting. There are outside influences and cultural factors that affect the situation and how the war is being conducted.

[The Cool Thatguy]

You honestly believe Israel hasn't nuked Palestine because they are showing restraint? It couldn't be because they don't want the nuclear fallout to enter Israel or the flack received from the western world? How many countries have nukes and how many nukes have been used during war time?

You don't need nukes to wipe out an entire people.

[Gray Lensman]

Given how Israel knew about the attack for over a year, it was the Israeli government who allowed Hamas to carry out the attack.

I don't think they took it seriously, or at best just presumed it might be a slightly larger than normal rocket attack. Underestimating the enemy is a long, worldwide tradition among militaries. Only the US military truly bucks the trend, and that is a recent development in terms of history (being at best 2 generations old), as the US military instead presumes that every enemy is run by Grand Admiral Thrawn - or for those of you who aren't fans of Star Wars outside of the movies, the second coming of Sun-Tzu. And even then, that trend in the US is only in the military - intelligence services still underestimate adversaries, as 2001 demonstrates.

[Catlady in training]

If Israel ends their apartheid system and the west finally helps Palestine, I don't see why they can't survive.

What do you imagine under "finally helps" if the millions of money in aid and the support of the two state solution is not enough for you?

[Gray Lensman]

What do you imagine under "finally helps" if the millions of money in aid and the support of the two state solution is not enough for you?

The most critical nation required for supporting the two state solution has been undermining it for a couple of decades. Without Israel getting behind it, it doesn't matter who else supports it.

[Mister Mets]

Dennis Hastert was revealed to be a pedophile rapist and went to jail for unlawfully structuring the withdrawal of $952,000 in cash in order to evade the requirement that banks report cash transactions over US$10,000 (Title 31, United States Code, and making false statements to the FBI about the purpose of his withdrawals. Hastert was second in line for the presidency as Speaker of the House, so he objectively rose higher and fell lower than Rudy. He just wasn't as entertaining in between.

Fair point on Hastert.

He was actually Speaker. That said, I don't think he ever had the national reputation Giuliani had. Tom DeLay was seen as the real power.

Cheers for info on Giuliani. (Hooray!)

On Matt Perry case...the reason I cast doubt on the "accident" aspect is that its patently obvious that a lot of people in US medical and pharmaceutical industries effectively encourage people to take stuff they would be better off not taking.

The term "accidental overdose" means the person didn't mean for the effects. It's an accidental overdose because Matthew Perry presumably didn't want it to be fatal.

When someone is very wealthy, only an absurd fine can send a message. For a related example, Trump has been fined twice already for violating the court imposed gag order, but only for $5000 each time. While that's a lot of money for people like us, for someone poor it's crippling for years, but for Trump it's the equivalent of what you or I find as loose change in the couch cushions. Either being rich means you can break laws enforced by civil penalties with impunity, or the fines need to be absurd.

I like the idea of speeding fines based on someone's wages, so the rich have to pay more. Europe tried this.

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna34792272

I'm waiting for a trial when the judgement isn't a number, but the liquidation of everything the defendant owns, and ever will own. The sentence is to be poor for the rest of their life.

This may be subject to abuse. Prosecutors you don't like can easily weaponize it.

Perhaps it's worth it if the rules are defined so that anyone making defensible statements isn't vulnerable to losing their life savings.

That was something else entirely. It was the kind of thing people say when a white person is harmed by any person of color. Which is well past Islamaphobia. If the attackers in question had been African, Indian, South American, etc it would still have the same chilling meaning. "They" can't be around "Us".

I don't see any indication that people critical of Hamas or even Palestinians are reacting differently to them than they would if white people had committed mass murder and rape.

People don't seem nastier talking about Hamas than they are about Russians, to pick a group that is currently on the moral wrong side of an international conflict.

[Mister Mets]

My page count says 3750 but then that's because I changed my settings to show 20 posts per page a while back.

I'm on Page 1877, though I've got it set to the maximum of 40 posts a page.

Sometimes there's a lot of content.

Sen. Ben Cardin, (D--Maryland), has some 'splaining to do, and more than a few apologies to make. Yes, it wasn't him, but it WAS his staffer, and thus his responsibility. Harassing a Jewish congressman because he's Jewish, and then filming a pron video in a Senate hearing room just seems like it might warrant a few apologies here and there.

And Fetterman is right, Sen Menendez has got to go. The House set the precedent on the fool whose name escapes me, the Republican idiot who lied every time he said anything. Now it's time for the Senate to step up and expel that guy.

Cardin fired the guy within a day.

I'm a bit concerned about the groupchat where the staffer posted the sex tape. What else is there?

I agree. I guess it’s easier to slam Israel, unfortunately, Netanyahu and the IDF have given protesters plenty of ammunition.

I get that you don't think it's a good thing, but why is it easier to slam Israel than the group that went on a killing spree at a desert rave?

They are of Gaza, at the very least.

Yeah. It was the principle of one man, one vote, one time.

They could have beefed up security at the border, they could have placed the military bases that were attacked on high alert, they could have had a rapid response unit nearby, they could have had their air assault units on stand by, they could have used drones to patrol the border. But I think Benjamin wanted this attack to happen so he let it happen.

What if you're wrong about Netanyahu allowing the attack to happen?

Armchair quarterbacking serves no purpose.
People with opinions should go study the full history of the conflict before commenting. There are outside influences and cultural factors that affect the situation and how the war is being conducted.

There is certainly much ignorance here, as evident by the confusion about whether Hamas is in charge of Gaza.

But asking people to study the full history doesn't seem helpful.

There are plenty of informed people on different sides of the conflict. So it's very easy for one person studying the history to go down a pro-Palestine rabbit hole, and another to find material favoring a more robust response from Israel. People looking into the background of an international conflict can very easily end up misled, since they won't know when they're being tricked.

If you have sources of information that you want to recommend, that would be appreciated.

[numberthirty]

The most critical nation required for supporting the two state solution has been undermining it for a couple of decades. Without Israel getting behind it, it doesn't matter who else supports it.

That is up for debate...

Let's say that someone could wave a magic wand Tuesday, and Israel was the main force behind attempting a two state solution.

Is there anyone that would actually bet both eyes on that Palestinians/Hamas/PLO/Whatever You Want To Call It would actually play a responsible role in attempting said two state solution?

[achilles]

The most critical nation required for supporting the two state solution has been undermining it for a couple of decades. Without Israel getting behind it, it doesn't matter who else supports it.

It doesn't matter if Israel supports it, as it has done at various time; since none of the Palestinians do. One side can't negotiate while the other refuses.

[Farealmer]

I don't see any indication that people critical of Hamas or even Palestinians are reacting differently to them than they would if white people had committed mass murder and rape.

People don't seem nastier talking about Hamas than they are about Russians, to pick a group that is currently on the moral wrong side of an international conflict.

"Man, the cultural enrichment is really paying off." Is a not really a criticism. It also doesn't tend to be levied at Russians or white people from what i've seen.