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  1. #4531
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBullion View Post
    In Trump's defense though, he must be full of all kinds of drugs to be ready for Coronapalooza tonight.
    I must admit I am very curious about what will happen. Trump's gatherings are always, um, how can I put this nicely boisterous (maybe?). I'll catch a live stream if I have time and can find one.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  2. #4532
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    A lot of people couldn't see Trump winning the first time, but he still did. I won't breathe a sigh of relief until the final results come in after the election.
    I won't breathe a sigh of relief until Biden gets sworn in.

  3. #4533
    Incredible Member The no face guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    Woodrow Wilson, on the other hand, was quite the racist even for his time.
    I hear you on that one, and whole heartedly agree.


    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    I doubt he will get Michigan this time either if the polls are to believed. Just got to hope for no polling place shenanigans. There's already been some redistricting done in some states to make people travel farther to vote.
    He won Michigan last time by a sliver so I can't see him winning it again. He has handled the BLM protests so badly, he's pretty much done in that state. His draconian stance might of worked in the Nixon era, but I think the general public is pretty much disgusted with him, thankfully Michigan militia groups don't reflect the general public, but rather a looney fringe.

  4. #4534
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    • Barr tries to trick Berman into quitting
    • Berman says no
    • Barr tries to fire Berman
    • Finds out he can't
    • Barr then says that Trump fired him
    • Trump says ' Nope, I have nothing to do with it, talk to Barr.'
    • Berman still has his job
    Hmm, I have to wonder.

    Did Barr not know he couldn't fire Berman? Has he gotten so used to pulling corrupt sit that he no longer does any research?

    Or did he get Trump to agree, only for Trump to see the potential backlash and back out leaving his guy twisting in the wind?

  5. #4535
    Astonishing Member PwrdOn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    How about this: pretty much everyone in the past were horrible, racist assholes. EVERYONE. So lets learn about them in the context of their time, and see what lessons we can learn from them to make sure we never become those people again.
    Presumably all of Washington's slaves were considerably less racist than he was.

    This sort of thinking is exactly why history needed revising in the first place. We consistently ignore the opinions of everyone except the rich and powerful, and take the fact that THEY were all greedy and murderous assholes to be an indictment of all of humanity.
    Last edited by PwrdOn; 06-20-2020 at 02:07 PM.

  6. #4536
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    How about this: pretty much everyone in the past were horrible, racist assholes. EVERYONE. So lets learn about them in the context of their time, and see what lessons we can learn from them to make sure we never become those people again.
    People are getting away from a large aspect of the primary issue at hand -- namely the denigration and erasure of non-white cultures as well as the glossing over of slave ownership and overt racism common to said era. Many are focused solely on "defending" Washington and other American icons -- revealing that they have little to no concern about learning about the history and culture of non-white Americans which might be an even more important aspect of this conversation.

    Not surprising since we see the same thing happening with the discussion of white supremacy, systemic racism and police brutality in the modern era -- there's no real discussion of those harmed by the hypocrisy of the founding fathers or how white supremacy and the legacy of slavery and segregation still affects us today, just lots of talk about how "rioting" won't solve the problem while ignoring the millions of non-violent protesters and their valid reasons for seeking to hold law enforcement accountable for their actions.

    People can't "learn" lessons from about these individuals if they don't know the whole truth about them and the era in which they lived.

    Which is exactly what many here are arguing for -- that the truth be taught in textbooks rather than a romanticized version of "manifest destiny" that neglects to tell the factual and often tragic history of the vast majority of non-white (and non-straight) Americans.

    Not just a chapter on Chinese immigrants, or Japanese internment camps, or the Halem Rennaissance -- we need entire textbooks that integrate the history of all Americans into a single whole and which tell these stories from a diversity of perspectives rather than one that usually provides only a cursory view the iniquities of the past.

    What we have now is a growing number of "minority" kids who feel that they are being forced to learn "white" history -- which is largely true.
    Last edited by aja_christopher; 06-20-2020 at 02:48 PM.

  7. #4537
    Incredible Member 4saken1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Which none of what you said does.

    When you stole a whole vault full of potential income from a group of people and left a bunch of them with some sort of a felony conviction on their records which will make it harder for them to earn a decent living, it doesn't really matter if you did it intentionally or not.

    Past that?

    You said "Under Democrats..." pretty clearly.

    After that, you put a link to something that pretty clearly says "Since 2006..." Take a second to consider how long Clinton was President after signing the 1994 crime bill.
    So you think the crime bill would have been friendlier to African Americans if a Republican was President at the time and they held both Houses of Congress? NO? Then hey, guess what? At the very least, the vast majority of African Americans do better in states that are run by Democrats. You are using a single piece of anecdotal evidence - a piece of legislation, that admittedly had a huge impact, to discount the fact that African Americans as a whole are vastly better off in blue States than red ones.
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  8. #4538
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4saken1 View Post
    You are using a single piece of anecdotal evidence - a piece of legislation, that admittedly had a huge impact, to discount the fact that African Americans as a whole are vastly better off in blue States than red ones.
    It speaks volumes when individuals choose to focus solely on "crime" when discussing black people.

  9. #4539
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4saken1 View Post
    So you think the crime bill would have been friendlier to African Americans if a Republican was President at the time and they held both Houses of Congress? NO? Then hey, guess what? At the very least, the vast majority of African Americans do better in states that are run by Democrats. You are using a single piece of anecdotal evidence - a piece of legislation, that admittedly had a huge impact, to discount the fact that African Americans as a whole are vastly better off in blue States than red ones.
    What you are saying roughly amounts to...

    Let's ignore that time that a Democratic President presided over that way more African American men went to prison. Let's set aside the current and future wage that he literally stole from them so that we can attempt discuss that African Americans are way better off in blue versus red states.

    A blue President did that. The idea that you are "Vastly" better off under the party whose president presided over the number of you being sent to prison(let's not eve discuss that they are basically what amounts to a slave labor force in those prisons...) where your present and future financial well being are hobbled.
    Last edited by numberthirty; 06-20-2020 at 02:37 PM.

  10. #4540
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Hmm, I have to wonder.

    Did Barr not know he couldn't fire Berman? Has he gotten so used to pulling corrupt sit that he no longer does any research?

    Or did he get Trump to agree, only for Trump to see the potential backlash and back out leaving his guy twisting in the wind?
    Or is whatever Berman is getting close to so bad that Barr is acting out of panicked desperation?
    "How does the Green Goblin have anything to do with Herpes?" - The Dying Detective

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  11. #4541
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    It speaks volumes when individuals choose to focus solely on "crime" when discussing black people.
    Crime was just the excuse used to go after a group of people.

    That said, the above fact does nothing to change the reality of what happened to that group of people.

  12. #4542

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBullion View Post
    Newest development:


    Minutes ago, Trump denied ordering Barr to fire Berman, meaning Bill Barr lied to illegally remove a US attorney from his post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    • Barr tries to trick Berman into quitting
    • Berman says no
    • Barr tries to fire Berman
    • Finds out he can't
    • Barr then says that Trump fired him
    • Trump says ' Nope, I have nothing to do with it, talk to Barr.'
    • Berman still has his job
    So let's just step back and look at Trump's week...

    • The Supreme Court rule against him on LGBTQ workplace rights.
    • SCOTUS also rules against him on DACA, which is his bread and butter, anti-immigrant boilerplate.
    • Twitter starts flagging his posts for being lies.
    • Facebook cancels his ads for having Nazi imagery in them.
    • Trump campaign embarrasses themselves after bad poll after bad poll come out, they threaten legal action, get told to pound sand, commission their own polls at conservative sources... which also show they're losing to Biden badly.
    • Court throws out his lawsuit that attempts to block Bolton's book.
    • Excerpts from Bolton's book show that everyone in the Trump administration thinks he's an idiot, and he ALSO tried soliciting China's help in the 2020 election.
    • Trump's niece reveals a book is on the way
    • Covid-19 cases continue to spread at a shocking rate, people keep dying, and Trump and GOP governors are catching major s*** for making measures to stop the spread political
    • Trump blinks and moves his hate rally from Juneteenth to today.
    • Trump's hate rally had an advance team of campaign staffers inside the venue, and six of them test positive for Covid-19.
    • AG William Barr botches the firing of Berman at SDNY, risks his own impeachment, and that becomes the biggest news story when Trump wanted to rush out to retake the spotlight with the hate rally.


    Am I missing anything?
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  13. #4543
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    Disappointed Berman didn't fight this more, but at least his replacement now is a career prosecutor and not a Trumpbarr puppet:

    BERMAN: “In light of Attorney General Barr’s decision to respect the normal operation of law and have Deputy U.S. Attorney Audrey Strauss become Acting U.S. Attorney, I will be leaving the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York, effective immediately.”
    https://twitter.com/akarl_smith/stat...61886977904646
    "How does the Green Goblin have anything to do with Herpes?" - The Dying Detective

    Hillary was right!

  14. #4544

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBullion View Post
    Disappointed Berman didn't fight this more, but at least his replacement now is a career prosecutor and not a Trumpbarr puppet:

    https://twitter.com/akarl_smith/stat...61886977904646
    Strauss would be highly preferred over the toady that Barr wanted to be the new Acting prosecutor at SDNY... it would have been Craig Carpentino, a guy who worked for Chris Christie during Bridgegate.

    Berman is still scheduled to speak in front of Congress on Wednesday. Sure he'll have some dimes to drop.
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  15. #4545
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    People are getting away from a large aspect of the primary issue at hand -- namely the denigration and erasure of non-white cultures as well as the glossing over of slave ownership and overt racism common to said era. Many are focused solely on "defending" Washington and other American icons -- revealing that they have little to no concern about learning about the history and culture of non-white Americans which might be an even more important aspect of this conversation.

    Not surprising since we see the same thing happening with the discussion of white supremacy, systemic racism and police brutality in the modern era -- there's no real discussion of those harmed by the hypocrisy of the founding fathers or how white supremacy and the legacy of slavery and segregation still affects us today, just lots of talk about how "rioting" won't solve the problem while ignoring the millions of non-violent protesters and their valid reasons for seeking to hold law enforcement accountable for their actions.

    People can't "learn" lessons from about these individuals if they don't know the whole truth about them and the era in which they lived.

    Which is exactly what many here are arguing for -- that the truth be taught in textbooks rather than a romanticized version of "manifest destiny" that neglects to tell the factual and often tragic history of the vast majority of non-white (and non-straight) Americans.

    Not just a chapter on Chinese immigrants, or Japanese internment camps, or the Halem Rennaissance -- we need entire textbooks that integrate the history of all Americans into a single whole and which tell these stories from a diversity of perspectives rather than one that usually provides only a cursory view the iniquities of the past.

    What we have now is a growing number of "minority" kids who feel that they are being forced to learn "white" history -- which is largely true.
    I whole-heartedly agree that we need to completely overhaul the education system to teach the whole history of the country and world, not just the parts that make white people look good. I admit it's been a few years since I've been in school, but I never learned about things like the Tulsa Race Riots. I didn't even know this happened until I was browsing Wikipedia one day at work. We never learned about Juneteenth. We just glossed over the atrocities committed against the Native Americans. It was never mentioned that Washington had slaves, and I'm sure that the horrors of slavery itself were softened. These things and more need to be taught, but aren't.

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