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  1. #2266
    Mighty Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    I’ve known about having to reform the police and other matters so as to improve black peoples’ quality of live for awhile, but it seems the only way black peoples‘ lives will truly be fulfilled in their mattering is if someone with enough power steps up to sway the narrative that way. From what I’ve seen so far, it seems that it won’t be Trump, but I’m sure that the good, however small, will still eventually seek its way to the top and prevail in influencing the narrative to sway for the better of black lives and peace through proper justice in communities as a whole. It just hasn’t gotten to that point yet.
    I would like to think that maybe what is happening now will start positive change. But sadly with a president in the white House who wants to make things worse and not unit people I dont see this happening. With people defending the police who arrest reporters and fire rubber bullets at people in neighborhoods who are just sitting on their porch or run SUVS into crowds. I dont see this happening.
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  2. #2267
    Fantastic Member Wandering_Wand's Avatar
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    I've been protesting police brutality, police murders (murders of innocents and others by the hands of police), and civil asset forfeiture since 2012. I have always stood with anyone, any group, who has protested these things as well. And, in case it needs to be said, the officer who murdered George Floyd needs to be put in prison for life and/or given the death sentence. I don't really care at this point as long as his body rots.

    Having said that, looting and rioting is not the answer. Protests are. Changing the law is. Organizing people is. These are not protests (while they all may have started out as such, they quickly devolved), so if anyone continues calling them that after seeing the destruction you are LYING. And don't give me that Kaepernick crap about how people don't listen to protests. YES, protests are effective, I've been part of many. I've seen it with my own eyes. Looting and rioting businesses (built and employed by our neighbors and fellow citizens) doesn't achieve anything.

    And no, it's not a matter of putting lives above brick and mortar, but even so, to those of you suggesting this has it even occurred to you what was sacrificed by many of these business owners? Not all of them were born with silver spoons in their mouths, many of these people were just like the rest of us and used up their savings to start something and provide services for others. Oh, and they employ people... But when you go and burn things down - some of those people may not come back. They may not be able to financially, or psychologically. There's even a risk of suicide for some of these people now.

    Take all that in for a moment and try to see the bigger picture. Looting and rioting is an action of the lowest depths of the masses, it's not really anything that works or paints a "movement" in any type of positive light in a developed country to my knowledge. All it does is raise costs for everyone in the long run and shows that reason has left a movement.


    So, police forces across the U.S. need to be reformed in so many ways. I've been saying that for years and will continue to say it. But organization and other means than rioting and looting is the way to go, not destruction.

    And I guess we're going with the "eye for an eye" with some of these riots, huh? Beating people trying to defend their stores, etc. I've seen videos with gentlemen saying there's going to be a "two for one" rule in play. Yea, that's great folks. Best of luck with all of that.

    Last thing: the great irony with all of this is IF there's a jump in COVID confirmations in many of these cities after all of this, will anything be attributed to these protests/gatherings/riots, etc. with hundreds/thousands of people? Nah, probably not. Most of you will probably find a way to drag the President into it and blame him. And as a last disclaimer, I didn't vote for Trump, I don't like him; I think he's a moron. But that doesn't change my observation.

  3. #2268
    Amazing Member Maine Starfish's Avatar
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    https://twitter.com/midmichigannow/s...735956996?s=20

    we need more police officers like this guy
    Last edited by Maine Starfish; 05-31-2020 at 10:27 AM.

  4. #2269
    Incredible Member 4saken1's Avatar
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    I dunno. When you've tried just about everything else and nothing ever fucking changes, rational thought processes kinda go out the window! Virtually every civil rights movement that has improved the lives of minorities in this country has come at the heels of violence. It seems that until there are riots in the streets, we, collectively, don't give a flying fuck about the rights of blacks in this country! And then, we blame them for acting up!!!

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  5. #2270
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by your_name_here View Post
    Surely Trump is done come November?
    Not quite. Trump still has that 40 percent or so of hardcore cultists who believe he walks on water and will vote for him come hell or high water, and he has the Republican Party that is invested in keeping Trump in office which, in turn, keeps them in power, so theyíll empty the arsenal of dirty tricks come election time. Oh, yeah, letís not forget Trump doesnít need the popular vote to win, just to clean up in the electoral college like he had in 2016. While Trump is on the ropes, heís not dead yet.
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

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  7. #2272
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4saken1 View Post
    I dunno. When you've tried just about everything else and nothing ever fucking changes, rational thought processes kinda go out the window! Virtually every civil rights movement that has improved the lives of minorities in this country has come at the heels of violence. It seems that until there are riots in the streets, we, collectively, don't give a flying fuck about the rights of blacks in this country! And then, we blame them for acting up!!!
    QUOTED FOR TRUTH! It would be lovely to believe rational, calm dialogue changes the minds of the obstinate 99% of the time... but it doesn't. And it's worth considering how the recent riots in Hong Kong were reported. The poor, helpless citizens, nobly standing up to the oppressive government. This is not how these riots are being reported, by and large, and we all know why.
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  8. #2273
    Astonishing Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4saken1 View Post
    I dunno. When you've tried just about everything else and nothing ever fucking changes, rational thought processes kinda go out the window! Virtually every civil rights movement that has improved the lives of minorities in this country has come at the heels of violence. It seems that until there are riots in the streets, we, collectively, don't give a flying fuck about the rights of blacks in this country! And then, we blame them for acting up!!!

    100700119_10164006907030604_2827924386013511680_n.jpg
    MLK talked about true peace not merely being the absence of tension, but the presence of justice, and surely the type of justice helping improve the unheard’s quality of life.

    In the end, I support positive productive solutions the most, and if reality deems that riots very much have to happen to achieve them, then so be it.

  9. #2274
    Ol' Doogie, Circa 2005 JDogindy's Avatar
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    Tear gas & pepper spray lingers inside buildings. Learned this the hard way when me & my brother went to clean up our bank.

    That stuff is violently potent. Don't know why 2 cans had to be used.

  10. #2275
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maine Starfish View Post
    I havenít seen anyone defending looting and rioting ....
    Quote Originally Posted by sammy_hansen View Post
    White people need to learn that actions have consequences.
    When people say stuff like this in defense of rioting, don't be shocked that 10 pages of rioting follow.

    But seriously, if you feel you want to talk about other aspects of the issue that's cool. But the riots are just as valid a point of discussion as anything else, especially in a pandemic. Even excluding the people directly effected by loss of property and goods, because of the virus hundreds of others could have their lives endangered because of this. The rioters themselves, and any family members they may have. So that's a valid issue of concern too.

    Again, plenty of stupid to go around on both sides.

  11. #2276
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I stand corrected. I just was going off of what Cnn was reporting and the statements from St. Paul Mayor Melvin Carter. If I am wrong I am sorry for spreading misinformation.
    It's not your fault if even the mayor got it wrong.
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  12. #2277
    Astonishing Member Darkspellmaster's Avatar
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    I'll be honest, I'm worried about the aftermath of all of this. Do we need the Police to change, absolutely, tear it and all other police forces down and reform them, but what people don't get with the destruction is that not every business can come back. As Wandering_Wand pointed out, not everyone has the money to restart.

    People have been pointing out the $100,000 dollars that the Native American youth center had raised for rebuilding, what people don't get is the time this all takes as well as the aspects the government and the owners of the land play.

    When a building burns: You have to have it assessed by the fire department and they have to say if the case was arson or not. Then theres the insurance which may not cover for riot damages.

    You have to then figure out if the building is salvageable, which most cities do not allow fire burned buildings to be reused unless the damage is minimal.

    You have to consider the age of the building and the chemicals that may have been used inside the building. Then you have to consider the cost of the teardown of unstable buildings. This could take months and, depending on the city councils laws can be footed by the city or has to be footed by the business owner.

    Once that's done then comes in the city to test and zone the space to be used for building. There are several types of zoning, retail is just one, and then theres that tax and payment to the city.

    Now comes in the land owner who can chose to sell that land to whomever has the best bid. In the case of the Native American youth center, like other businesses, they were renting the space from the building owner.

    So now they have to see if the owner of the building wants to rebuild, because a lot of these are owned by larger real estate corporations who may not give a rats a** about the area because of the cost of building the building and fear of losing their investment again.

    So IF the building is built again then there is the inspections and that again cost money. And then it also depends on if the land lords that own the land and the ones that own the building are willing to rent out to the same business.

    So cash that will be needed to pay for:

    The assessment of the building.
    The destruction of the building
    The city to rezone the area for commercial use
    Taxes for said tear down and reassessment
    Payment for the land and renting it for building the building
    Cost of construction company and people working on it
    Permits for all of this
    Cost of inspection of finished building and any changes needed to be made
    Cost of the real estate team for finding renters
    Cost of the rent and all the insurance and equipment (risk/loss assessment) etc
    Then the cost of employment and insurance for those employees
    That's not even considering additional costs and the question of getting people to stay in the area.

    By the time the situation for everything is completed it could be several years before these burned down business can come back. And for every "burn it all down we can rebuild" chant there are going to be people that can't come back because of the cost. So you have parking lots and empty fields which makes business scared to come in which leads to housing issues and eventually gentrification in a lot of cases or where areas become ghost towns.

    So yeah,looting, fine, burnings down the buildings. NO!

  13. #2278
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4saken1 View Post
    Americans are pretty stupid. A simple diversion sometime in late October should do the trick!
    Bill Barr will hang naked from a hot air balloon to announce 400 investigation into Biden, his children, the death of his first wife, their finances, Tara Reade, Bide possibly being the Zodiac killer (exonerating Ted Cruz!), Biden creating the coronavirus in Wuhan, Biden using a personal e-mail server, Biden actually being a woman and born in Mexico and all kinds of malarkey.
    "How does the Green Goblin have anything to do with Herpes?" - The Dying Detective

    Hillary was right!

  14. #2279
    Extraordinary Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBullion View Post
    You have my biggest respect for doing that kind of hard work, even if only for a limited time.
    Thank you. And in case anyone was wondering, the kid who broke his nose was Black. I don't think his race had anything to do with his being restrained, but as I was not a witness to the original incident and was only there for the aftermath, I don't know for sure.

    As for myself, I was fortunate in that I never had to restrain anyone in my three years working there. The closest I came to that was breaking up a fight. Another counselor and I pulled the two kids apart and talked them down to keep the situation from escalating. I really wish more cops would use the methods we were trained on to de-escalate such situations.
    Watching television is not an activity.

  15. #2280
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogindy View Post
    Tear gas & pepper spray lingers inside buildings. Learned this the hard way when me & my brother went to clean up our bank.

    That stuff is violently potent. Don't know why 2 cans had to be used.
    We got sprayed with that stuff in army basic training and had to clean up the room we're gassed in. Yea, it stays around for hours.

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