Page 153 of 395 FirstFirst ... 53103143149150151152153154155156157163203253 ... LastLast
Results 2,281 to 2,295 of 5916
  1. #2281
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    30,325

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspellmaster View Post
    I'll be honest, I'm worried about the aftermath of all of this. Do we need the Police to change, absolutely, tear it and all other police forces down and reform them, but what people don't get with the destruction is that not every business can come back. As Wandering_Wand pointed out, not everyone has the money to restart.

    People have been pointing out the $100,000 dollars that the Native American youth center had raised for rebuilding, what people don't get is the time this all takes as well as the aspects the government and the owners of the land play.

    When a building burns: You have to have it assessed by the fire department and they have to say if the case was arson or not. Then theres the insurance which may not cover for riot damages.

    You have to then figure out if the building is salvageable, which most cities do not allow fire burned buildings to be reused unless the damage is minimal.

    You have to consider the age of the building and the chemicals that may have been used inside the building. Then you have to consider the cost of the teardown of unstable buildings. This could take months and, depending on the city councils laws can be footed by the city or has to be footed by the business owner.

    Once that's done then comes in the city to test and zone the space to be used for building. There are several types of zoning, retail is just one, and then theres that tax and payment to the city.

    Now comes in the land owner who can chose to sell that land to whomever has the best bid. In the case of the Native American youth center, like other businesses, they were renting the space from the building owner.

    So now they have to see if the owner of the building wants to rebuild, because a lot of these are owned by larger real estate corporations who may not give a rats a** about the area because of the cost of building the building and fear of losing their investment again.

    So IF the building is built again then there is the inspections and that again cost money. And then it also depends on if the land lords that own the land and the ones that own the building are willing to rent out to the same business.

    So cash that will be needed to pay for:

    The assessment of the building.
    The destruction of the building
    The city to rezone the area for commercial use
    Taxes for said tear down and reassessment
    Payment for the land and renting it for building the building
    Cost of construction company and people working on it
    Permits for all of this
    Cost of inspection of finished building and any changes needed to be made
    Cost of the real estate team for finding renters
    Cost of the rent and all the insurance and equipment (risk/loss assessment) etc
    Then the cost of employment and insurance for those employees
    That's not even considering additional costs and the question of getting people to stay in the area.

    By the time the situation for everything is completed it could be several years before these burned down business can come back. And for every "burn it all down we can rebuild" chant there are going to be people that can't come back because of the cost. So you have parking lots and empty fields which makes business scared to come in which leads to housing issues and eventually gentrification in a lot of cases or where areas become ghost towns.

    So yeah,looting, fine, burnings down the buildings. NO!
    Because this is happening in the middle of a pandemic which is already hitting small business hard, the after of this will be brutal. It's a terrible 1-2 punch, and the government will be more strapped to assist people in dealing with the fall out than they were before.

  2. #2282
    Extraordinary Member Malvolio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Freeville, NY
    Posts
    8,527

    Default

    When Colin Kaepernick took a knee, many people said that he had a right to protest, but that it was just the wrong time and place. I took that to mean, they just didn't want to think about such a horrible, serious issue when they were getting ready to watch a football game. So I have a question for babyblob and others who express similar opinions: When and where would be a good time and place for such a protest from a professional football player?
    Watching television is not an activity.

  3. #2283
    Amazing Member Maine Starfish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Bangor
    Posts
    97

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wandering_Wand View Post
    I've been protesting police brutality, police murders (murders of innocents and others by the hands of police), and civil asset forfeiture since 2012. I have always stood with anyone, any group, who has protested these things as well. And, in case it needs to be said, the officer who murdered George Floyd needs to be put in prison for life and/or given the death sentence. I don't really care at this point as long as his body rots.

    Having said that, looting and rioting is not the answer. Protests are. Changing the law is. Organizing people is. These are not protests (while they all may have started out as such, they quickly devolved), so if anyone continues calling them that after seeing the destruction you are LYING. And don't give me that Kaepernick crap about how people don't listen to protests. YES, protests are effective, I've been part of many. I've seen it with my own eyes. Looting and rioting businesses (built and employed by our neighbors and fellow citizens) doesn't achieve anything.

    And no, it's not a matter of putting lives above brick and mortar, but even so, to those of you suggesting this has it even occurred to you what was sacrificed by many of these business owners? Not all of them were born with silver spoons in their mouths, many of these people were just like the rest of us and used up their savings to start something and provide services for others. Oh, and they employ people... But when you go and burn things down - some of those people may not come back. They may not be able to financially, or psychologically. There's even a risk of suicide for some of these people now.

    Take all that in for a moment and try to see the bigger picture. Looting and rioting is an action of the lowest depths of the masses, it's not really anything that works or paints a "movement" in any type of positive light in a developed country to my knowledge. All it does is raise costs for everyone in the long run and shows that reason has left a movement.


    So, police forces across the U.S. need to be reformed in so many ways. I've been saying that for years and will continue to say it. But organization and other means than rioting and looting is the way to go, not destruction.

    And I guess we're going with the "eye for an eye" with some of these riots, huh? Beating people trying to defend their stores, etc. I've seen videos with gentlemen saying there's going to be a "two for one" rule in play. Yea, that's great folks. Best of luck with all of that.

    Last thing: the great irony with all of this is IF there's a jump in COVID confirmations in many of these cities after all of this, will anything be attributed to these protests/gatherings/riots, etc. with hundreds/thousands of people? Nah, probably not. Most of you will probably find a way to drag the President into it and blame him. And as a last disclaimer, I didn't vote for Trump, I don't like him; I think he's a moron. But that doesn't change my observation.
    Well, this is a fair and reasonable well said take. Except for the last part, I definitely think Trump deserves a lot of the blame for his mishandling of the pandemic but that’s another topic.

    Now, I’m just another white guy and I recognize I have a lot of privilege, I can go for a run without having to worry about being shot, I can be pulled over without having to worry about being shot, heck I could probably even go steal some stuff and not have to worry about being shot.

    And I largely agree that organizing, working to change laws, non-violent protests are the correct way to go about implementing change. But I also do think putting lives over property and objects is at least part of the bigger picture. It’s clear to me in the video depicting George Floyd’s death that the police did not value his life.

  4. #2284
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    30,325

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maine Starfish View Post
    Well, this is a fair and reasonable well said take. Except for the last part, I definitely think Trump deserves a lot of the blame for his mishandling of the pandemic but that’s another topic.

    Now, I’m just another white guy and I recognize I have a lot of privilege, I can go for a run without having to worry about being shot, I can be pulled over without having to worry about being shot, heck I could probably even go steal some stuff and not have to worry about being shot.

    And I largely agree that organizing, working to change laws, non-violent protests are the correct way to go about implementing change. But I also do think putting lives over property and objects is at least part of the bigger picture. It’s clear to me in the video depicting George Floyd’s death that the police did not value his life.
    But my question is why is it even a choice that we have to choose between lives and property? Can't we just protest against police brutality without looting and burning building?

    Really the only reason we're even having this conversation is because a bunch of criminals are deciding to use this protest as cover for commiting crimes for free stuff.

  5. #2285
    Astonishing Member Darkspellmaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,136

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shooshoomanjoe View Post
    We got sprayed with that stuff in army basic training and had to clean up the room we're gassed in. Yea, it stays around for hours.
    Which is insane to use this.

  6. #2286
    Mighty Member babyblob's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    New Richmond Ohio
    Posts
    1,833

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    When Colin Kaepernick took a knee, many people said that he had a right to protest, but that it was just the wrong time and place. I took that to mean, they just didn't want to think about such a horrible, serious issue when they were getting ready to watch a football game. So I have a question for babyblob and others who express similar opinions: When and where would be a good time and place for such a protest from a professional football player?
    He was a big star. He was famous. There is social media. Showing up at and organizing protests I am sure many people would have shown up. There are many platforms that a famous person has. Like I said him kneeing was not the end of the world. It didnt really upset me. I dont think he should have been blacklisted, I dont agree with the abuse he received for it.
    Last edited by babyblob; 05-31-2020 at 11:47 AM.
    Favorite teams. Alpha Flight, Avengers, Fantastic Four, West Coast Avengers, Justice Society of America, Legion of Superheroes.

  7. #2287
    Amazing Member Maine Starfish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Bangor
    Posts
    97

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    When people say stuff like this in defense of rioting, don't be shocked that 10 pages of rioting follow.

    But seriously, if you feel you want to talk about other aspects of the issue that's cool. But the riots are just as valid a point of discussion as anything else, especially in a pandemic. Even excluding the people directly effected by loss of property and goods, because of the virus hundreds of others could have their lives endangered because of this. The rioters themselves, and any family members they may have. So that's a valid issue of concern too.

    Again, plenty of stupid to go around on both sides.
    I don’t know, I think sammy_hansen has a point. As a white guy I'm certainly not going to tell other people when or how it’s ok to protest. I don’t think that statement is defending looting anyways. It’s just saying don’t be surprised after all these deaths of black people at the hands of police if some people turn violent. It’s not condoning the violence it’s just saying don’t be surprised.

  8. #2288
    Ol' Doogie, Circa 2005 JDogindy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    1,070

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shooshoomanjoe View Post
    We got sprayed with that stuff in army basic training and had to clean up the room we're gassed in. Yea, it stays around for hours.
    Funny thing... guy who was cleaning up told me that happened during Marine training when I was picking up glass and moving furniture and having to deal with the sting for the first time in my life. Told me to keep my eyes open when I instinctively had my eyes closed.

    Stuff is brutal. My family went to this place for 21 years, and aside from a few months due to circumstance, I used them my whole adult life. This hit close to home.

  9. #2289
    Ol' Doogie, Circa 2005 JDogindy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    1,070

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    When Colin Kaepernick took a knee, many people said that he had a right to protest, but that it was just the wrong time and place. I took that to mean, they just didn't want to think about such a horrible, serious issue when they were getting ready to watch a football game. So I have a question for babyblob and others who express similar opinions: When and where would be a good time and place for such a protest from a professional football player?
    Yeah, that begs the question, "when" and "where", because if you asked them, they would just give you a vague "Not in my football!" or "anywhere but here" response. A good way people kept protests down for years was constantly telling people not to do it due to it not being appropriate until the top went off. 2020 has been the ultimate powder keg for all this.

  10. #2290
    Extraordinary Member Malvolio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Freeville, NY
    Posts
    8,527

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    He was a big star. He was famous. There is social media. Showing up at and organizing protests I am sure many people would have shown up. There are many platforms that a famous person has. Like I said him kneeing was not the end of the world. It didnt really upset me. I dont think he should have been blacklisted, I dont think nor agree with the abuse he received for it.
    Fair enough. At least you're answering the question, which is more than most of the people who criticized Kaepernick have done. That said, I still think Kaepernick got more attention kneeling during the National anthem than he would have got any other time or place. And the most important thing you want to accomplish with a political protest is to get the attention of people who are not yet supporting you. If you hold a protest in a place where only people who already support you are going to be there, then you're just preaching to the choir.
    Watching television is not an activity.

  11. #2291
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    30,325

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maine Starfish View Post
    I don’t know, I think sammy_hansen has a point. As a white guy I'm certainly not going to tell other people when or how it’s ok to protest. I don’t think that statement is defending looting anyways. It’s just saying don’t be surprised after all these deaths of black people at the hands of police if some people turn violent. It’s not condoning the violence it’s just saying don’t be surprised.
    Well, as a non white person that organized dozens of protests back in my college days I have no problem telling other people NOT to burn buildings down while a lawful peaceful protest is happening.

    And no ones suprised that this is happening... but that doesn't make it any less tragic. You have people turning violent and destroying their OWN neighborhood, including many local minority owned business, while priveleged white people get to watch it transpire on the television from the safety of their homes. Good luck getting white people to learn consequences from that particular formula.

    And again, I think it's fair to bring up the fact that this is in the middle of a pandemic. If this is really about lives, that's something people need to consider too. A lot of people could get infected and die from this. And that just as valid a concern as someone dying from a corrupt police officer. You're talking about property versus lives... but what about lives versus lives? I'm not entirely okay with trading one death for another. Others are and that's fine... but it's at least something we shouldn't completely be overlooking.
    Last edited by XPac; 05-31-2020 at 12:03 PM.

  12. #2292
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Bristol, UK
    Posts
    8,144

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    Fair enough. At least you're answering the question, which is more than most of the people who criticized Kaepernick have done. That said, I still think Kaepernick got more attention kneeling during the National anthem than he would have got any other time or place. And the most important thing you want to accomplish with a political protest is to get the attention of people who are not yet supporting you. If you hold a protest in a place where only people who already support you are going to be there, then you're just preaching to the choir.
    Agreed. And considering all this hand wringing about "I don't mind peaceful protests... but riot"; I think his actions are the epitome of what "but riots" people should admire.
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  13. #2293
    Mighty Member babyblob's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    New Richmond Ohio
    Posts
    1,833

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    Fair enough. At least you're answering the question, which is more than most of the people who criticized Kaepernick have done. That said, I still think Kaepernick got more attention kneeling during the National anthem than he would have got any other time or place. And the most important thing you want to accomplish with a political protest is to get the attention of people who are not yet supporting you. If you hold a protest in a place where only people who already support you are going to be there, then you're just preaching to the choir.
    I agree with that. He did bring a lot of attention to his cause. But sadly most of it was negative because of how he protested and sadly that took a lot away from his message which is a very important one. People chose to focus on the wrong thing, I think the backlash he got for it was insane. No one black, white, Latino etc.. Dem or Republican man or woman should be abused and punished for holding a peaceful protest that hurt no one.
    Favorite teams. Alpha Flight, Avengers, Fantastic Four, West Coast Avengers, Justice Society of America, Legion of Superheroes.

  14. #2294
    Astonishing Member Electricmastro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    2,622

    Default

    I was concerned about this and just now saw a case of it: a child has been harmed by having been pepper sprayed at what may be a riot: https://mobile.twitter.com/hallealic...95207007547392
    Last edited by Electricmastro; 05-31-2020 at 12:11 PM.

  15. #2295
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    30,325

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    I was concerned about this and just now saw a case of it: a child has been harmed by having been pepper sprayed at what may be a riot: https://mobile.twitter.com/hallealic...95207007547392
    I don't condone a police officer macing a child at all. That's horrible.

    Though at the same time I question bringing children into a situation like this in the first place. Unless a child getting pepper sprayed was exactly the outcome they wanted from bringing a child into a situation like this. But that's probably over thinking it.

    Hope the kid is okay though. Pepper spray is no joke.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •