All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Powerboy]

Yep, and just because Black Lives Matter is being said again and again doesn’t mean that non-black Jewish people, Mexican people, white people, Japanese people, etc. can’t concern themselves either. Also, there are those staying at home, not necessarily because they’re afraid to be an activist, but are fine in being a bystander from home, and I’m sure there are quite a number of black people being bystanders in their homes, but are still staying informed such as by watching the news from home too.

I live in Indianapolis. I was not at the demonstration last night mostly because I didn't want to get maced or clubbed by the police. Sorry but I'm in my sixties and have a number of physical problems. I didn't need to add a concussion and let's just say that running away isn't an option because I can't run. I know people who were there and they swear that it was peaceful until the police attacked. There are mountains of footage of the police assaulting people who did nothing threatening and were even trying to walk away. Even at best, the police were responding to verbal jibes with clubs.

There was a fear that, once the sun set, the demonstration would not stay peaceful which is what happened the previous night. But a friend of mine faces court tomorrow on charges of rioting and resisting arrest. He is on film kneeling as soon as the police arrived, with his hands high and allowing himself to be cuffed and arrested.

[Powerboy]

Here in Indianapolis, some people looted a liquor store because they could. All caught on the news, and they didn't care.

The unfortunate problem with riots over social change is you're guaranteed at least a few assholes in it for free stuff.

Yes, I work at a Target and it got looted last night though no actual damage was done, well, except to the doors. There's always going to be people who take advantage of a situation for personal gain that has nothing to do with what the situation is about. There were plenty of people today, black and white alike, rolling their eyes at the insanity of that part of it, feeling it had nothing to do with what they were protesting and many saying that this s**t is not going to be allowed in their neighborhood and if they catch people who looted THEIR store... Again, customers black and white saying this.

[Powerboy]

Target has done bad things, no doubt and they need to be held to account for that but this isn't going to bring Target down - they'll rebuild and get insurance and their employees will end up unemployed or homeless in the fallout. This will likely increase the chances of target, and other businesses, moving out of the region and creating more food deserts and the small businesses will probably go bankrupt.

Target is nothing like those institutions, and it won't be the only business getting the brunt of this. If anyone wants to purchase things from them that's not going to available to them for a while.

Incidents like this also provide opportunities for criminals who aren't in this for the cause, it's cover for their own gain and they'll bring heat on the actual protesters and won't face the consequences. Do you want the protesters to stop them doing this? Because they'll slink into the shadows while the protesters get the blame.

How's this going to affect the local community? The aftermath will stay longer than the riot.

Edit: Forgot one thing, this is occurring during a global pandemic which shut down the entire world. How many people are going die from COVID-19 during all this? There are no cures, and getting it will do a number on your health even if you survive. It's another vector which will impact marginalised groups who will become more vulnerable and will be exploited by the police and bad actors to harm them.

I'm not aware of exactly what Target has done. Luckily, the store I'm at so far was vandalized but with no real damage. It's also not downtown. But all the destruction will just cause a loss of jobs and more to black employees since there are more of them. At this point, I await our hours getting cut to compensate for this damage.

[XPac]

I live in Indianapolis. I was not at the demonstration last night mostly because I didn't want to get maced or clubbed by the police. Sorry but I'm in my sixties and have a number of physical problems. I didn't need to add a concussion and let's just say that running away isn't an option because I can't run. I know people who were there and they swear that it was peaceful until the police attacked. There are mountains of footage of the police assaulting people who did nothing threatening and were even trying to walk away. Even at best, the police were responding to verbal jibes with clubs.

There was a fear that, once the sun set, the demonstration would not stay peaceful which is what happened the previous night. But a friend of mine faces court tomorrow on charges of rioting and resisting arrest. He is on film kneeling as soon as the police arrived, with his hands high and allowing himself to be cuffed and arrested.

I know I'm beating this corona virus thing dead, but I do believe it's effective the protests. As many people as out there now, I'll wager a lot more would be if things were more normal. This is clearly something a lot of people of all ethnicities are concerned over.

Hell, I'd probably be out there if I didn't have an 85 year old mother that I'm taking care of... as bad as I feel about what happened in Minneapolis, I'm not going to take the risk of her getting sick over that.

It's just a shame things got so ugly so quickly. I'm sure under different circumstances a lot more people would be out there (not that there aren't a lot already).

[Electricmastro]

I live in Indianapolis. I was not at the demonstration last night mostly because I didn't want to get maced or clubbed by the police. Sorry but I'm in my sixties and have a number of physical problems. I didn't need to add a concussion and let's just say that running away isn't an option because I can't run. I know people who were there and they swear that it was peaceful until the police attacked. There are mountains of footage of the police assaulting people who did nothing threatening and were even trying to walk away. Even at best, the police were responding to verbal jibes with clubs.

There was a fear that, once the sun set, the demonstration would not stay peaceful which is what happened the previous night. But a friend of mine faces court tomorrow on charges of rioting and resisting arrest. He is on film kneeling as soon as the police arrived, with his hands high and allowing himself to be cuffed and arrested.

I can totally understand you not going even if it looks like there wouldn’t be any bloody violence at first glance. Particularly in this case, it seems that the cops have gone corrupt enough to that they’d shoot at any protest crowd right away even if they were made up of children and elderly people, so again, totally understanding if you personally didn’t want to go. Not physically going to a protest/riot doesn’t make you less caring.

[GindyPosts]

Antifa being made terrorists is hideously dangerous territory. They have no organisation, no identifier, no leader. If someone claims their Anti-fa they may well have peaceful intentions in mind.

Some have referred to it as "Lazy Reichstag Fire". Plus the awful optics of "The group called anti-facists are terrorists, brought to you by a racist widely considered to be supportive of white supremacists"

Also theres no actual way to prove Antifa have been involved.

It's sort of the difference between the Occupy Movement and the Tea Party. The Tea Party was clearly organized and set up to capitalize on unhappiness and frustration with conservatives and reactionaries (the polite term for the far right) that felt taxes were too high and the government was encroaching on everything despite evidence to the contrary, while Occupy was at best a fragmented movement and at worst a bunch of squatters. However, people were quick to mobilize and defend the Tea Party as patriotic while Occupy protesters were the scum of the earth, and I still remember an early Ben Garrison cartoon before he went all-in on epic backgrounds (I assume it was him) where the difference between a Tea Party member and an Occupy member was that the Tea Party member was a regular American while an Occupy member was a bum that was also likely to be a "murder, rapist, and drug dealer". Conservatives are far better at the organization game than liberals and progressives; that's how they dominate the media & the blogosphere. Right wingers have a goal; they achieve that goal. Liberals have a goal, they plan the goal, but never quite get to the goal because they spend far too much time planning it out in the design stage and then debating with others (whether or not you attribute this to the Democratic Party having a much larger range from liberals to moderates and even some conservatives is your call, but think about it). And I say this as a bleeding heart.

Again, Antifa is hard to figure out exactly what it truly is, so you can easily say it is "anything a liberal is" (which as you pointed out, is where the problem lies) which has been true for just about any snarl word for the past 35-40 years since the Reagan Administration, while the Alt-Right is firmly established, with their own culture, lingo (I wish I did not know about terms like "red pill", "NPC", "autistic screeching" {which especially hits home}, and especially the usage of triple parenthesis), websites, support system, and hell, even a possible economy. But it's because one of so well structured that they're able to create the illusion that the other is also structured and is out to get everyone, which instills fear in the unknown, and conservatives often rule by fear.

[godisawesome]

I think both are true.

I think some people were genuinely offended that the national anthem was the vehicle being used to make his protest. And I think some genuiely disliked football being politicized the way it was.

But I also agree there's a block of people who woudln't appreciate the message regardless of how the messenger gave it.

It's all of the above.

I think part of the issue is that he and others lost control of the narrative, and when that combined with a lack of staying power occurred, the protest ultimately became negated in effectiveness. Kaepernick is only human, and unfortunately, some of his actions and conduct wound up being vulnerable to strong pathos arguments that overwhelmed his message when screamed at the top of a lunatic’s lungs - a little things like his initial plan being to sit out the anthem meant that his kneeling later didn’t have some of the protection from its more respectful aspects against the hysteria and hypocrisy flung his way.

It was always going to be something that triggered a visceral reaction in people, but it wound up becoming more about the reaction than about the message in the media. Like, when some of the owners and teams kneeled as one, they weren’t really doing it for ending police violence, but instead to show solidarity in having the ability to protest... which obfuscated the purpose of the kneeling enough to leave it open to yet more attacks.

Aside from the vicious opposition you’ll face with a protest when your point is opposed by uncompromising a-holes, managing the story and narrative can be difficult, especially on a holistic level across the nation; smaller protests are easier to manage, but have a smaller profile. There’s a reason the most effective protests, both non-violent and violent, in the Civil Rights movement and in the Revolutionary War have leaders and clear messaging as part of their make-up. The difference between a mob and movement is leadership and focus.

[Hypestyle]

https://www.cbr.com/netflix-hulu-hbo...er-statements/

I wonder what sort of tactile commitment, tactile actions will be taken to be more inclusive of green-lighting black-led projects by actors, directors, writers, etc.? Hiring black staff at the entry-level, mid-level and C-suite level, too. The Netflix "Hollywood" mini series operates with the conceit that a "progressive" studio can deliberately be inclusive if it wants to be. The statements are nice, "necessary" even, but....

[GindyPosts]

I live in Indianapolis. I was not at the demonstration last night mostly because I didn't want to get maced or clubbed by the police. Sorry but I'm in my sixties and have a number of physical problems. I didn't need to add a concussion and let's just say that running away isn't an option because I can't run. I know people who were there and they swear that it was peaceful until the police attacked. There are mountains of footage of the police assaulting people who did nothing threatening and were even trying to walk away. Even at best, the police were responding to verbal jibes with clubs.

There was a fear that, once the sun set, the demonstration would not stay peaceful which is what happened the previous night. But a friend of mine faces court tomorrow on charges of rioting and resisting arrest. He is on film kneeling as soon as the police arrived, with his hands high and allowing himself to be cuffed and arrested.

And, meanwhile, I have to attend to an older brother who has severe anxiety issues and mental disabilities as I'm the only family member still living that he knows. As much as I want to protest a noble cause, there are times where you have to accept when you can't. Combine that with my gag reflex and other issues, and I'd be a freaking liability. That's why we chose to help clean up today instead. Lots of people showed up downtown to try and help sort out of the mess left behind, and it's a sobering sight seeing the Soldiers & Sailors Monument defaced in spray paint that just can't come off easily, no matter how much volunteers try to get it out of limestone. We spoke to a few and one pointed out that this was also a way to help show protest, but in a positive manner; to show the city we do care about Indianapolis. However, while this makes you feel a little better, this does not change the reality of our situation, nor make amends to the true problems people are trying to change to ensure these protests don't happen again.

The whole situation is a complicated one for me. I've said this in the past that we do have friends in law enforcement in the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department. And they're genuinely good people. But the system is obviously broken, and when a system is broken, everyone pays. Police officers are vilified and unable to defend themselves as the system itself has it's own way of punishing "snitches", and the community feels less safe, both when dealing with actual crime and if officers show up as you don't know how they will respond to you, or even if you'll leave the situation alive.

Yes, I work at a Target and it got looted last night though no actual damage was done, well, except to the doors. There's always going to be people who take advantage of a situation for personal gain that has nothing to do with what the situation is about. There were plenty of people today, black and white alike, rolling their eyes at the insanity of that part of it, feeling it had nothing to do with what they were protesting and many saying that this s**t is not going to be allowed in their neighborhood and if they catch people who looted THEIR store... Again, customers black and white saying this.

I finally go back to work at the Goodwill store for the first time in about 3 months, and I'm sort of dreading the shape it's in tomorrow. We lost a lot of business due to COVID-19, and the last thing a lot of these places need is hoodlums taking advantage and smearing the cause as an excuse for petty crime.

[Powerboy]

I can totally understand you not going even if it looks like there wouldnÂ’t be any bloody violence at first glance. Particularly in this case, it seems that the cops have gone corrupt enough to that theyÂ’d shoot at any protest crowd right away even if they were made up of children and elderly people, so again, totally understanding if you personally didnÂ’t want to go. Not physically going to a protest/riot doesnÂ’t make you less caring.

I just want to say to all these people in these comments.
I was there in indy last night. I protested peacefully alongside many of my brothers and sisters. I canÂ’t speak to the other cities but people were peaceful here. Until the police came. They tear-gassed us when all we did was exercise our rights. IÂ’m inclined to believe it was the same across the nation.
I have it all on video if anyone would like to see with their own eyes: everyone in the crowd standing with their hands in the air just before the police incited the violence by firing gas into the crowd causing panic.
ItÂ’s human nature, fight, or flight. You canÂ’t do that to already terrified people in that situation and expect any different.
I witnessed my friend and others, kneel on their knees, hands in the air when the gas and rubber bullets started. The police arrested them. Charged them. My friend has a hearing tomorrow and is being charged with rioting, disorderly conduct.
Here is a photo of him being peaceful, just before they arrested him.
When you have the generational trauma that these people do, when you have the same fear to go for a run in your neighborhood or merely sleep in your bed in your own home, THEN you can MAYBE judge these people for their reactions.
Not only do you not have their experiences, but you were not at any of these protests. And you know not what you speak of.
Stop talking. Now.


This is a description from a friend of mine of what happened last night. There is some argument that they were ordered to disperse and instead knelt with hands raised but refusing to leave while it was still daylight. But there is film of the police pushing people and initiating the violence at every turn. There is film of people being maced or clubbed for skirting around the police and trying to help someone that the police just assaulted and in no way acting threatening to the police.

I do know a few cops and I am sure many of them were just caught in the middle of this nightmare like everyone else. Part of the problem is that police are trained to aggressively give orders and respond aggressively if people do not comply even if there is no physical resistance except refusing to give ground. Trying to be reasonable and negotiate is more likely to be seen as weakness and get a cop killed. And that may be true when dealing with people who have already committed violent crimes or are looting. But when those tactics are used against people employing Gandhi-like techniques of passive resistance and peaceful protests, it becomes a disaster that incites retaliatory violence and the cops become guilty of police brutality and worse, being the ones that started the violence. Aside from massive societal problems and cops, some of whom are racist and some of whom are just terrified themselves, cops need to be trained in a whole different way to deal with situations like peaceful protests.

It may be that the peaceful protestors would soon have left and there would have been violence from others. But the problem is that the cops initiated it.

[XPac]

And, meanwhile, I have to attend to an older brother who has severe anxiety issues and mental disabilities as I'm the only family member still living that he knows. As much as I want to protest a noble cause, there are times where you have to accept when you can't. Combine that with my gag reflex and other issues, and I'd be a freaking liability. That's why we chose to help clean up today instead. Lots of people showed up downtown to try and help sort out of the mess left behind, and it's a sobering sight seeing the Soldiers & Sailors Monument defaced in spray paint that just can't come off easily, no matter how much volunteers try to get it out of limestone. We spoke to a few and one pointed out that this was also a way to help show protest, but in a positive manner; to show the city we do care about Indianapolis. However, while this makes you feel a little better, this does not change the reality of our situation, nor make amends to the true problems people are trying to change to ensure these protests don't happen again.

The whole situation is a complicated one for me. I've said this in the past that we do have friends in law enforcement in the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department. And they're genuinely good people. But the system is obviously broken, and when a system is broken, everyone pays. Police officers are vilified and unable to defend themselves as the system itself has it's own way of punishing "snitches", and the community feels less safe, both when dealing with actual crime and if officers show up as you don't know how they will respond to you, or even if you'll leave the situation alive.



I finally go back to work at the Goodwill store for the first time in about 3 months, and I'm sort of dreading the shape it's in tomorrow. We lost a lot of business due to COVID-19, and the last thing a lot of these places need is hoodlums taking advantage and smearing the cause as an excuse for petty crime.

There is a lot of good people in law enforcement that save lives in a daily basis. That should never be lost in the narrative, regardless of how many unfortunate incidents we get.

But I'm sure even police officers themselves are fine with attempts to improve the system provided the baby isn't thrown out with the bath water. I'll wager some police offiers themselves would be okay participating in rallies that were peaceful, lawful, and not going out of their way to villify anyone and everyone in uniform.

[jetengine]

It's sort of the difference between the Occupy Movement and the Tea Party. The Tea Party was clearly organized and set up to capitalize on unhappiness and frustration with conservatives and reactionaries (the polite term for the far right) that felt taxes were too high and the government was encroaching on everything despite evidence to the contrary, while Occupy was at best a fragmented movement and at worst a bunch of squatters. However, people were quick to mobilize and defend the Tea Party as patriotic while Occupy protesters were the scum of the earth, and I still remember an early Ben Garrison cartoon before he went all-in on epic backgrounds (I assume it was him) where the difference between a Tea Party member and an Occupy member was that the Tea Party member was a regular American while an Occupy member was a bum that was also likely to be a "murder, rapist, and drug dealer". Conservatives are far better at the organization game than liberals and progressives; that's how they dominate the media & the blogosphere. Right wingers have a goal; they achieve that goal. Liberals have a goal, they plan the goal, but never quite get to the goal because they spend far too much time planning it out in the design stage and then debating with others (whether or not you attribute this to the Democratic Party having a much larger range from liberals to moderates and even some conservatives is your call, but think about it). And I say this as a bleeding heart.

Again, Antifa is hard to figure out exactly what it truly is, so you can easily say it is "anything a liberal is" (which as you pointed out, is where the problem lies) which has been true for just about any snarl word for the past 35-40 years since the Reagan Administration, while the Alt-Right is firmly established, with their own culture, lingo (I wish I did not know about terms like "red pill", "NPC", "autistic screeching" {which especially hits home}, and especially the usage of triple parenthesis), websites, support system, and hell, even a possible economy. But it's because one of so well structured that they're able to create the illusion that the other is also structured and is out to get everyone, which instills fear in the unknown, and conservatives often rule by fear.

Wtf is the alt rights economy ?

[Kal-El Summers]

"As they were finishing, police drove up. And threw a flash-bang grenade at them."

[GindyPosts]

I just want to say to all these people in these comments.
I was there in indy last night. I protested peacefully alongside many of my brothers and sisters. I canÂ’t speak to the other cities but people were peaceful here. Until the police came. They tear-gassed us when all we did was exercise our rights. IÂ’m inclined to believe it was the same across the nation.
I have it all on video if anyone would like to see with their own eyes: everyone in the crowd standing with their hands in the air just before the police incited the violence by firing gas into the crowd causing panic.
ItÂ’s human nature, fight, or flight. You canÂ’t do that to already terrified people in that situation and expect any different.
I witnessed my friend and others, kneel on their knees, hands in the air when the gas and rubber bullets started. The police arrested them. Charged them. My friend has a hearing tomorrow and is being charged with rioting, disorderly conduct.
Here is a photo of him being peaceful, just before they arrested him.
When you have the generational trauma that these people do, when you have the same fear to go for a run in your neighborhood or merely sleep in your bed in your own home, THEN you can MAYBE judge these people for their reactions.
Not only do you not have their experiences, but you were not at any of these protests. And you know not what you speak of.
Stop talking. Now.


This is a description from a friend of mine of what happened last night. There is some argument that they were ordered to disperse and instead knelt with hands raised but refusing to leave while it was still daylight. But there is film of the police pushing people and initiating the violence at every turn. There is film of people being maced or clubbed for skirting around the police and trying to help someone that the police just assaulted and in no way acting threatening to the police.

I do know a few cops and I am sure many of them were just caught in the middle of this nightmare like everyone else. Part of the problem is that police are trained to aggressively give orders and respond aggressively if people do not comply even if there is no physical resistance except refusing to give ground. Trying to be reasonable and negotiate is more likely to be seen as weakness and get a cop killed. And that may be true when dealing with people who have already committed violent crimes or are looting. But when those tactics are used against people employing Gandhi-like techniques of passive resistance and peaceful protests, it becomes a disaster that incites retaliatory violence and the cops become guilty of police brutality and worse, being the ones that started the violence. Aside from massive societal problems and cops, some of whom are racist and some of whom are just terrified themselves, cops need to be trained in a whole different way to deal with situations like peaceful protests.

It may be that the peaceful protestors would soon have left and there would have been violence from others. But the problem is that the cops initiated it.

There was a sign sprayed on the BMO Plaza that said it all "**** the Status Quo". That rings true for not only the public, but also law enforcement, because if you ask me, the "one size fits all" approach you see on COPS or Live PD is nonsense.

Cops are only taught one gear in law enforcement training, and that is to assume the absolute worst. There aren't many attempts made in alternate means of crisis management or disbursement outside of hostage negotiations (and they're often just to convince the person to let go of the hostage long enough to neutralize them); it's like we tell them to always pick the nuclear option. I don't know if they still watch videos like "Surviving Edged Weapons" (an actual video that does exist and goes over-the-top on situations, like cops going to a satanic ritual where one of them blows away a woman holding a ceremonial knife before a dog comes out and the narrator asks "How many edged weapons do you see here?"), but it feels like they're literally being brainwashed into just thinking everyone walking down the street is going to turn around and attack them or something. If you got the stomach to see actual autopsy images, it's on YouTube, but RedLetterMedia did tackle the thing if you're curious about what is (or was) involved in the training process.

There are genuinely evil people in this world, for sure, but if someone commits a crime, it's often a misunderstanding or out of survival, and when the police are only taught one way to deal with every situation, especially when it comes to minorities, no wonder they have a negative reputation. I am not trying to be soft on crime, but perhaps if we improve the quality of life, the types of crime police commonly go after will go down?

[GindyPosts]

Wtf is the alt rights economy ?

Besides cryptocurrencies, they have used some websites like "Hatreon" (a clone of Patreon) to get around groups like PayPal blocking access to them on existing websites. The New York Times covered it a few years back.

Just thinking about this makes my head hurt, but they'll think of something stupid, and turn it into something that becomes part of their lifestyle. They appropriated Hawaiian shirts, for crying out loud.