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  1. #2326

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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogindy View Post

    Again, Antifa is hard to figure out exactly what it truly is, so you can easily say it is "anything a liberal is" (which as you pointed out, is where the problem lies) which has been true for just about any snarl word for the past 35-40 years since the Reagan Administration, while the Alt-Right is firmly established, with their own culture, lingo (I wish I did not know about terms like "red pill", "NPC", "autistic screeching" {which especially hits home}, and especially the usage of triple parenthesis), websites, support system, and hell, even a possible economy. But it's because one of so well structured that they're able to create the illusion that the other is also structured and is out to get everyone, which instills fear in the unknown, and conservatives often rule by fear.
    That is a very good point and a natural problem for liberal or left wing movements in the United States today compared to labor action and civil rights in the early and mid 20th century.

    In Russia, conservative movements have strong government backing and, more importantly, even stronger and more experienced organizers who are willing to dominate the streets in public with organized and targeted protests clearly covered by a media ready to push the message. Violence is reserved for behind the scenes attacks on opposition leaders.

    In the United States, it's not nearly that bad, but left wing and liberal protests are very diffuse with a lot of differing and opposing interests drawing focus away from the actual point of the protest. Meawhile, very right wing conservative political action is almost (and sometimes simply is) paramilitary in its organization, clear in its message and supported by widespread social media and alternative media platforms constantly reiterating their points and even market-testing them with the mainstream.

    However, much of the problem is endemic to the far left position which has never been able to gain much of a foothold in American culture. It was probably the best organized in the early 20th century, but Red Scare and post war Anti-Communist activities developed very effective ways of counteracting and dismantling the Left. CoIntelPro often used plants to turn peaceful Civil Rights and Anti-War protests into violent ones to discredit the movements. Now, it's at the point that leftist and liberal movements risk losing more with a protest than they have to gain.

    This has been true since the 70's really when an anti-war movement really had little effect on stopping the Vietnam War for a decade. It started out as a movement of educated people and clean-cut college students who simply wanted to stop senseless violence and quickly became perceived as a bunch of dangerous, lazy hippies who wanted to overthrow democracy and turn your children on to pot and LSD.

    The movement against the Iraq War was the biggest worldwide anti-War movement in history and it had even less of an effect on that conflict. They aren't working.
    Last edited by A Small Talent For War; 05-31-2020 at 03:32 PM.

  2. #2327
    Invincible Jersey Girl Tami's Avatar
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    In Some Cities, Police Officers Joined Protesters Marching Against Brutality


    As protests sparked by George Floyd’s death entered their chaotic fifth day, social media filled with images and video of police officers using batons, tear gas and rubber bullets to quell crowds⁠—but some squads joined in with Saturday protesters to express their stance against police brutality, and to show solidarity with the anti-racism movement.
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  3. #2328
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    And you gotta give those cops props in a sense.

    Even peaceful protests might technically be illegal because of all the social distancing laws out there, so they're potentially breaking the law to show their solidarity. So they're potentially crossing some lines to make their statement.

  4. #2329
    Astonishing Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    As mentioned earlier, Bernie Sanders, a widely known politician, has called for police department reform. Hope that other politicians, particularly ones with considerable power, get the snowball rolling more on this, so as to improve the chances of more peace through justice being fulfilled and the quality of life in black lives mattering.

    Last edited by Electricmastro; 05-31-2020 at 05:40 PM.

  5. #2330
    Astonishing Member jetengine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogindy View Post
    Besides cryptocurrencies, they have used some websites like "Hatreon" (a clone of Patreon) to get around groups like PayPal blocking access to them on existing websites. The New York Times covered it a few years back.

    Just thinking about this makes my head hurt, but they'll think of something stupid, and turn it into something that becomes part of their lifestyle. They appropriated Hawaiian shirts, for crying out loud.
    Aww man, I wear eye blinding Hawaiian shirts frequently

  6. #2331
    Ol' Doogie, Circa 2005 JDogindy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Small Talent For War View Post
    That is a very good point and a natural problem for liberal or left wing movements in the United States today compared to labor action and civil rights in the early and mid 20th century.

    In Russia, conservative movements have strong government backing and, more importantly, even stronger and more experienced organizers who are willing to dominate the streets in public with organized and targeted protests clearly covered by a media ready to push the message. Violence is reserved for behind the scenes attacks on opposition leaders.

    In the United States, it's not nearly that bad, but left wing and liberal protests are very diffuse with a lot of differing and opposing interests drawing focus away from the actual point of the protest. Meawhile, very right wing conservative political action is almost (and sometimes simply is) paramilitary in its organization, clear in its message and supported by widespread social media and alternative media platforms constantly reiterating their points and even market-testing them with the mainstream.

    However, much of the problem is endemic to the far left position which has never been able to gain much of a foothold in American culture. It was probably the best organized in the early 20th century, but Red Scare and post war Anti-Communist activities developed very effective ways of counteracting and dismantling the Left. CoIntelPro often used plants to turn peaceful Civil Rights and Anti-War protests into violent ones to discredit the movements. Now, it's at the point that leftist and liberal movements risk losing more with a protest than they have to gain.

    This has been true since the 70's really when an anti-war movement really had little effect on stopping the Vietnam War for a decade. It started out as a movement of educated people and clean-cut college students who simply wanted to stop senseless violence and quickly became perceived as a bunch of dangerous, lazy hippies who wanted to overthrow democracy and turn your children on to pot and LSD.

    The movement against the Iraq War was the biggest worldwide anti-War movement in history and it had even less of an effect on that conflict. They aren't working.
    I think you can easily dumb down why the Iraq War failed to help the anti-war cause in this video. Not because the side against war didn't have a good argument, but because the side in favor of war was just dumb and loud enough to make their case clear to people at home and they ate every last morsel.

    https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2m4f1r

  7. #2332
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    I keep seeing a count of how many police are injured and how many protesters are arrested. But not how many protesters are injured by police.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  8. #2333
    Invincible Jersey Girl Tami's Avatar
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    ‘The norms have broken down’: Shock as journalists are arrested, injured by police while trying to cover the story

    In several cases, reporters appear to have been swept up in indiscriminate efforts by authorities to disperse crowds. But in a number of incidents, journalists were injured, harassed or arrested even after identifying themselves as reporters — a blatant violation of constitutional protections and long-standing ground rules that guide interactions between media and law enforcement officials.

    Later on Saturday, for example, Velshi said his and another TV crew were confronted by police in a nearly deserted parking lot and informed them they were news media. “ ‘We don’t care,’ ” Velshi said the police told him before opening fire, without injury.

    Elsewhere around the world, journalists are regularly arrested or injured covering demonstrations as governments attempt to suppress reporting that threatens their legitimacy. But such examples have been rare in the United States. Before the Minnesota protests, only 43 journalists here over the past three years had been detained by police while covering demonstrations — 37 of them during protests over President Trump’s 2017 inauguration, according to Joel Simon, executive director of the Committee to Protect Journalists.
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  9. #2334
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Our police shook their hands and gave them an escort.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  10. #2335
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Philadelphia looks to be coming apart at the seams with widespread looting, some of it only a mile east of where I live. A curfew has been in effect since six p.m., mass transit is shut down, and, I don’t mind admitting I’m more than a little worried as another shopping corridor is only a stone’s throw from my front door. Meanwhile, we’re still in the middle of a pandemic, I fear that the city’s scheduled emergence from lockdown on June 5th has just gone down the toilet after all the craziness of today and yesterday. To quote Vince Lombardi, what the hell is going on out here?
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

  11. #2336
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    I keep seeing a count of how many police are injured and how many protesters are arrested. But not how many protesters are injured by police.
    There's probably no way to accurately get that number.

  12. #2337
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiddleMan View Post
    Ive got 3 major protests happening here in CT today, and we are a deep blue state

    it's more than you think
    Do you think it'll be more than one percent of the population?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    When Colin Kaepernick took a knee, many people said that he had a right to protest, but that it was just the wrong time and place. I took that to mean, they just didn't want to think about such a horrible, serious issue when they were getting ready to watch a football game. So I have a question for babyblob and others who express similar opinions: When and where would be a good time and place for such a protest from a professional football player?
    One rule would be that we should be consistent with how we respond to protests. It shouldn't be about their ideological position, but whatever is okay for an issue you agree with and believe needs much greater name recognition should apply just as well to someone doing the same thing on another topic.

    There were probably ways he could have protested that wouldn't have pissed off the employers as much, such as hosting events for progressive political candidates, participating in documentaries, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    As mentioned earlier, Bernie Sanders, a widely known politician, has called for police department reform. Hope that other politicians, particularly ones with considerable power, get the snowballing rolling more on this, so that more peace through justice will be fulfilled and improve the quality of life in black lives mattering.

    Even Bill Barr is saying that urgent work needs to be done to address grievances.
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  13. #2338
    Invincible Jersey Girl Tami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    Philadelphia looks to be coming apart at the seams with widespread looting, some of it only a mile east of where I live. A curfew has been in effect since six p.m., mass transit is shut down, and, I don’t mind admitting I’m more than a little worried as another shopping corridor is only a stone’s throw from my front door. Meanwhile, we’re still in the middle of a pandemic, I fear that the city’s scheduled emergence from lockdown on June 5th has just gone down the toilet after all the craziness of today and yesterday. To quote Vince Lombardi, what the hell is going on out here?
    I'm pretty safe where I am, but I'm worried about the Cities. If the chaos hits Newark, it's going to undo all the good that has been done in the past 20+ years. I was glad that Camden hasn't fallen apart yet, but they are across the river from Philly. If Philly goes down, they might drag Camden with them, and Camden is still in bad shape as it is.
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  14. #2339
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    I’m now wondering if I’ve gotten the Second Amendment completely wrong. It’s clear that the USA is no longer a free state with police hunting down innocent people, protesters and journalists with wanton abandon. When do the citizens have the right to protect themselves? This is a serious question for Second Amendment protectors - what does it mean for a militia being necessary for a free state? Is it defending yourselves against a tyrannical police force?

    What is the value of a brutal, oppressive police force at this stage? I can’t get on board with any cops or any police departments right now. I have no sympathy for them. They could’ve changed but they didn’t. And don’t give me that “Not all cops” - that’s just like saying “Not all men” at this stage. The world has changed and we can see the cops for what they really are.

    People are concerned about if the cops lose control and there’s anarchy. Anarchy seem to me to be code for theSr problems will soon impact white and middle class people. Well, it’s already impacting African-Americans and it has for a long time. The argument against popular action now seems to be Black Businesses Matter instead of Black Lives Matter.

    Or Coronavirus. Was Coronavirus stopping white people in Florida, or the Ozarks? No, it’s only when black people stand up for themselves do you see pushback. Enough is enough. Again, Coronavirus is code for this might soon affect the white and middle class. Well, you had your chance to change things. And you didn’t.

    This is a reckoning.

  15. #2340
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    Our police shook their hands and gave them an escort.
    We need more coverage of that happening in the news.

    Show coverage that doesn't villainize the police or the protestors. I get why we're seeing all the really bad stuff in the media ... but a little positivity wouldn't hurt.

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