1. #37096
    Astonishing Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSTowle View Post
    I have been listening to Biden speak both as a prominent Senator and especially since his run in '08 (where he had a good line about Guiliani, but then ran it into the ground). When he was the Veep candidate I was ecstatic, thinking he was an affable and knowledgeable counterweight to Obama's energy but lack of experience (also, had feared the ticket being weighed down by the Clintons). I liked listening to that guy, even when he put his foot in his mouth. Sometimes especially when he did, some of the "gaffes" were him being real. But that guy is clearly not the same one we're seeing now.

    I was rooting as hard for him to beat Trump as anyone here, but it was painful to listen to him make speeches and hope he didn't stumble too noticeably in a way that would have been in a thousand campaign ads. We lucked out there, but to say he's not clearly diminished from his days as Veep is just wrong. Age hits some harder than others. He's slower, seems to have trouble finding his words, gets clearly lost at times (sometimes finding his way back, other times moving on and hoping nobody notices). It's not a "Trump lie", it's plain to see any time he's out in front of the cameras for more than a quick soundbite. I wish I was wrong. But given that we shouldn't bury our heads in the sand. His likely further decline in the next few years makes taking a hard look at Harris and other candidates necessary. This job ages even those relatively younger (at least those with a sense of responsibility who feel the weight of their actions, so Trump of course came out unscathed).
    Are you a licensed Geriatrician, Neurologist or Neuropsychologist?

    If the answer is no, than your opinion is worth less than a fart in the wind as it's just an uninformed ad-hominem statement...and I said the same thing about those criticizing President Trump's capabilities as well, so this isn't some partisan defense.
    Last edited by thwhtGuardian; 12-01-2021 at 06:47 AM.
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  2. #37097
    Extraordinary Member babyblob's Avatar
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    The Thing with Biden is he is not a very good speaker. As CSTowle pointed out he is not the same speaker he used to be. He is a bit boring, he does stumble over his words and get lost at times, he gets a bit flustered when the reporters are calling out 20 questions a second, he doesnt do a lot of questions after he speaks, just gives his speech and moves on, he will do one on one interviews and even those are not often and I think they keep him away from answering questions after his speeches that is why he most of the time talks and moves on.

    Im not saying he has one foot in the grave or that he has dementia and is putting around the White House in a bath robe taking to people who arnt there. But he is not a good speaker and he has a lot of issues. They have even talked about it on CNN and NBC. But we are so into the Whatever the GOP says has to be a lie that we ignore it. The GOP does go extreme in the Biden's mind is mush because he cant speak, but to ignore valid points about his issues as a public speaker and his flubs just because someone on the other side points them out is not very wise.
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  3. #37098
    Astonishing Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    The Thing with Biden is he is not a very good speaker. As CSTowle pointed out he is not the same speaker he used to be. He is a bit boring, he does stumble over his words and get lost at times, he gets a bit flustered when the reporters are calling out 20 questions a second, he doesnt do a lot of questions after he speaks, just gives his speech and moves on, he will do one on one interviews and even those are not often and I think they keep him away from answering questions after his speeches that is why he most of the time talks and moves on.

    Im not saying he has one foot in the grave or that he has dementia and is putting around the White House in a bath robe taking to people who arnt there. But he is not a good speaker and he has a lot of issues. They have even talked about it on CNN and NBC. But we are so into the Whatever the GOP says has to be a lie that we ignore it. The GOP does go extreme in the Biden's mind is mush because he cant speak, but to ignore valid points about his issues as a public speaker and his flubs just because someone on the other side points them out is not very wise.
    What we're saying Blob is that not being a fantastic orator doesn't equal being in mental decline, and that's not a statement of "Whatever the GOP says has to be a lie" it's just a fact.
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  4. #37099
    Extraordinary Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    What we're saying Blob is that not being a fantastic orator doesn't equal being in mental decline, and that's not a statement of "Whatever the GOP says has to be a lie" it's just a fact.
    it is a little bit of a mental decline. he is not the same as he once was. It is not dementia but he has slipped quite a bit then where he used to be. And a lot of people are ignoring that. You cant watch a video of him speaking 10 or even 5 years ago and say :Hey he is the same and is as good as he used to be." Because that is just not true. saying he is just as good as he was and there is no real issue. There is a small issue. And his flubs are going to make it harder for him to run in 2024 because they may keep happening or get worse and that will be a weapon used against him. When he takes questions at a press conference after 3 questions he looks like the guy whose grand kids are being too loud and he just wants to escape to the den and take a nap.

    The same can be said of Trump. he also goes off the rails and you wonder what in the world he is saying. He has also had a mental decline over the years. He could start a press conference about one subject like climate change or roads needing to be repaired and turn it into a rant about China setting Covid loose and how his niece's book was full of lies or that guy who used to work for him not being able to manage a road side soda stand etc.. You have no clue what the Heck he was going to come up with. Dude is nuts.

    With both I have watched them talk and had no idea what point they were trying to make.

    If they both run in 2024 I think the debates will be like Watching the Movie Grumpy old Men Politics edition.
    Last edited by babyblob; 12-01-2021 at 07:15 AM.
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  5. #37100
    Astonishing Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    it is a little bit of a mental decline. he is not the same as he once was. It is not dementia but he has slipped quite a bit then where he used to be. And a lot of people are ignoring that. You cant watch a video of him speaking 10 or even 5 years ago and say :Hey he is the same and is as good as he used to be." Because that is just not true. saying he is just as good as he was and there is no real issue. There is a small issue. And his flubs are going to make it harder for him to run in 2024 because they may keep happening or get worse and that will be a weapon used against him.

    The same can be said of Trump. he also goes off the rails and you wonder what in the world he is saying. he has also had a mental decline over the years.

    With both I have watched them talk and had no idea what point they were trying to make.

    If they both run in 2024 I think the debates will be like Watching the Movie Grumpy old Men Politics edition.
    To that, I say the same I said above, what expertise do you have to base that statement on?

    There's a big difference between saying someone makes errors, or even that they make more errors now than before and drawing a line to a clinical diagnosis.
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  6. #37101
    Extraordinary Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    To that, I say the same I said above, what expertise do you have to base that statement on?

    There's a big difference between saying someone makes errors, or even that they make more errors now than before and drawing a line to a clinical diagnosis.
    Im not giving him a Clinical Diagnosis. Im just saying the man he was a few years ago is not the man he is now. You dont have to be a doctor to say "Hey dude just dont speak the same as he did before."

    No one here is a doctor but we make comments about Trump's mental state all the time and its all good. but a person says Biden just dont speak the same and he has a lot of flubs and there is a decline in how he speaks now vs a few years ago and its "Whoa man you are not a doctor you have no right to say that."

    Posters Cant say well cant say things about Biden because his docs said he is fine and we are not doctors and they talk about how crazy and all the mental problems Trump has even though no doctor has given him a diagnosis and that be fine.Give me a break on that.

    I am not even saying Biden has a mental problem. I have said that in past posts. Just that his speaking has taken a decline over the years. And that is an issue for a person who will be what 82 that people want to run again in 2024.
    Last edited by babyblob; 12-01-2021 at 07:23 AM.
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  7. #37102
    Extraordinary Member babyblob's Avatar
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    A person can say Biden is not the same speaker he used to be without giving him a Clinical Diagnosis. Any time someone questions Biden and his speaking ability or even hints that he just aint the same people just jump on the you are not a doctor stop trying to give him a Clinical Diagnosis. That is not what everyone is doing. The people on Fox and the GOP? Many do. But not everyone is on that train.
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  8. #37103
    Astonishing Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    Im not giving him a Clinical Diagnosis. Im just saying the man he was a few years ago is not the man he is now. You dont have to be a doctor to say "Hey dude just dont speak the same as he did before."

    No one here is a doctor but we make comments about Trump's mental state all the time and its all good. but a person says Biden just dont speak the same and he has a lot of flubs and there is a decline in how he speaks now vs a few years ago and its "Whoa man you are not a doctor you have no right to say that."

    Posters Cant say well cant say things about Biden because his docs said he is fine and we are not doctors and they talk about how crazy and all the mental problems Trump has even though no doctor has given him a diagnosis and that be fine.Give me a break on that.

    I am not even saying Biden has a mental problem. I have said that in past posts. Just that his speaking has taken a decline over the years. And that is an issue for a person who will be what 82 that people want to run again in 2024.
    I said often that the comments about President Trump's health were dumb and so did others here so that's a non-issue. And as I said, there is a difference between saying he's not great at public speaking, and that it's not getting any better and saying he's declining...the first is an opinion while the latter has very specific medical connotations and if you aren't a Doctor with direct access to President Biden then using that term is a really obvious ad-hominem that deserves to be called out.
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  9. #37104
    Extraordinary Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    I said often that the comments about President Trump's health were dumb and so did others here so that's a non-issue. And as I said, there is a difference between saying he's not great at public speaking, and that it's not getting any better and saying he's declining...the first is an opinion while the latter has very specific medical connotations and if you aren't a Doctor with direct access to President Biden then using that term is a really obvious ad-hominem that deserves to be called out.

    its not really a non issue. People post about his health both mental and physical at least when he was president and the events around the 6th quite often. Not so much any more because he is not around as much but it used to be an issue. Heck people go on all the time about how crazy Greene is including myself.

    A person can look at A tape of Biden from 5 years ago and one of just a couple days ago and say "The way he talks now is a decline over how he talked years ago." That is not a Clinical Diagnosis. he gets lost more. He makes more flubs. That is true and is not a Clinical Diagnosis or saying he is bat crap crazy and lost. People assume that people are painting Biden with that brush every time they say something and that aint true. He just aint the speaker he used to be and that is a fact.
    Last edited by babyblob; 12-01-2021 at 07:45 AM.
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  10. #37105
    Astonishing Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    its not really a non issue. People post about his health both mental and physical at least when he was president and the events around the 6th quite often. Not so much any more because he is not around as much but it used to be an issue. Heck people go on all the time about how crazy Greene is including myself.

    A person can look at A tape of Biden from 5 years ago and one of just a couple days ago and say "The way he talks now is a decline over how he talked years ago." That is not a Clinical Diagnosis. he gets lost more. He makes more flubs. That is true and is not a Clinical Diagnosis or saying he is bat crap crazy and lost. People assume that people are painting Biden with that brush every time they say something and that aint true. He just aint the speaker he used to be and that is a fact.
    Again, there's nothing wrong with saying he isn't the speaker he once was...but there is an issue when you start using words like decline as you just did there and drawing lines to questioning mental health as others have done and there is a big difference between those stances.
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  11. #37106
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    It's also ignoring that Biden has been through a *lot* emotionally in that time.

    Look, I'm not going to see the years don't take their toll, but I won't abide a guy trading in agist bull while at the same time supporting a different eighty year old who got himself smacked in the face by a boxing bag he punched.

  12. #37107
    Extraordinary Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    Again, there's nothing wrong with saying he isn't the speaker he once was...but there is an issue when you start using words like decline as you just did there and drawing lines to questioning mental health as others have done and there is a big difference between those stances.
    I said I dont think he has a mental health disorder. Saying Decline does not mean that. Decline just means he is not as good as he once was. If he is not the speaker he once was then his speaking ability has declined. As in being less then what it was, not being as good as it was. Lebron James playing ability has declined over the years, no one is saying he has a mental health issue. A declining ability is not the same as having a mental health issue.
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  13. #37108
    Astonishing Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I said I dont think he has a mental health disorder. Saying Decline does not mean that. Decline just means he is not as good as he once was. If he is not the speaker he once was then his speaking ability has declined. As in being less then what it was, not being as good as it was. Lebron James playing ability has declined over the years, no one is saying he has a mental health issue. A declining ability is not the same as having a mental health issue.
    In this context blob decline has a very specific connotation, and when you use it you're are making a diagnosis.

    Basically the yard stick is this, if the argument of the person remarking on speech is that you have to be articulate to be a good leader then its acceptable but if your remark hints at judging capacity to make command decisions then the argument is bogus...and all the arguments that have been called out here have been the latter and not the former.
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  14. #37109
    Extraordinary Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    In this context blob decline has a very specific connotation, and when you use it you're are making a diagnosis.

    Basically the yard stick is this, if the argument of the person remarking on speech is that you have to be articulate to be a good leader then its acceptable but if your remark hints at judging capacity to make command decisions then the argument is bogus...and all the arguments that have been called out here have been the latter and not the former.
    I never said he couldnt make command decisions. I just said he doesnt speak well and not as good as he used to. I never said he cant run the country or make choices on how to run the country based on how he talks. I never said he was a bad leader. Just a bad speaker. never once said he cant fix the supply issues because he stumbles with his words to the press, no way he can help with the covid problem in the country because he gets flustered answering 20 questions a second. I am not bogging down the thread any more I just dont get how Decline = mental health disorder and unfit for office when I never once said that.

    the issue with his speech to me isnt mental. it is more of a weapon his opponents can use. hey he dont speak well he is nut. Listen to this sound bite with a flub, and in a debate it is an issue. Perception is key that is the issue. Not his mental health.
    Last edited by babyblob; 12-01-2021 at 08:44 AM.
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  15. #37110
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Is there any great distinction between racism and what I think of as “negation nationalism”?? (For me, nationalism is positive when its about loving your own country, negative when it’s about disliking other countries.)

    I ask because at recent meeting with a group of friends we got to discussing forthcoming wedding of one friends daughter (British) to a French guy.

    The French guys parents are being a wee bit difficult…for example…they have said they won’t be eating any of the food (“English crap”) and want all the speeches in French (my mate and his family are fluent, but would prefer some of the speeches in English because of some of the guests.)

    When my mate was explaining this…it was like pressing the destruct button…a fair number of the group went on massive monologues against all things French.

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