All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[scourge]

I mean, Ron DeSantis wants to criminalize drag performances, and anyone even saying the word gay in front of children and do everything he can to prevent transgender citizens from receiving medical care, as well as allow doctors to refuse to treat LGBTQ people so they just die based on their "religious beliefs". To say nothing of his history of racist policies, white nationalist anti-immigrant rhetoric, or his inability to even say something is bad about Neo-Nazis.

AOC supports Democratic socialism, believes everyone deserves a fair chance to escape the poverty line through their work, and enjoyed dancing, and well at that, while she was in college.


BOTH SIDES are clearly just as bad, and someone pathetically trying to "WHATABOUTISM" on DeSantis being a white nationalist fascist by just impotently bleating out "BUT AOC!" clearly proves it isn't a fallacy.


I think we all can say the debate is settled.

The 'children' are just props to scum like him. He and his ilk have said they want people to stop being able to say gay at all. "Force them back into the closet" is a common thing among those assholes if not calling for outright torture or murder of anyone gay.

[aja_christopher]

This was a serious claim, so I'd like to know what persuaded you that a politician is so extreme that moderates of his party should not even consider voting for him over an octogenarian who is a typical member of the other party. That's a tall order.

If you don't care about the civil and human rights of other human beings then there's nothing anyone can say that can convince you (or any conservative) to do so.

It would be one thing if you had disproven any of the claims of racism, homophobia and white nationalism but instead you didn't even discuss the facts.

You can't claim that this is about "understanding" other perspectives when you ignore, misrepresent and even insult many of them when provided.

As I pointed out when we first spoke: often the only thing that will change the mind of a conservative is when they openly suffer from their own policies.

Each post you make only further verifies the accuracy of that statement as you've shown absolutely no concern for the rights of those you are "debating" with.

As it stands now you feel have nothing to lose and everything to gain by supporting a white nationalist party and no amount of rhetoric is going to change that.

If you want to ignore the obvious racist, fascist and homophobic nature of the current Republican party then that's your choice.

But don't try to gaslight others and pretend the Republican party doesn't engage in these behaviors just because you refuse to engage them on a forum.

[Vakanai]

It's a good point on nasty rhetoric, and I suspect it often turns people off politics, or at least off being willing to discuss major issues publicly.

Fortunately, the people who want violence are a minority.

Of course not.

This was a serious claim, so I'd like to know what persuaded you that a politician is so extreme that moderates of his party should not even consider voting for him over an octogenarian who is a typical member of the other party. That's a tall order.

It's not that tall an order - pushing for either white nationalism or Christian nationalism, passing laws that clearly target minorities based on bigotry, and purposely trying to undermine the foundations of democracy itself are all examples of a politician so extreme that moderates would be better off and better people voting for someone who's worse quality is only being a "typical" member of the other party. This is a measure by which DeSantis fails at to an abysmal extent. The man has passed legislation that can only be called fascist, limiting the power of the press to look into him, going after corporations that speak out against him (free speech is still legal in this country), and changed the law to maintain power while he goes out of state to campaign for more power. These are all things that should turn off any moderate to the point they either don't vote or vote for the other party. Voting for the bigoted anti-press fascist who uses his power to retaliate against those who dare speak up against him is not something you can do and by definition remain a moderate - that is too extreme that the willingness to overlook it makes one complicit in extremism.

[aja_christopher]

"Ron DeSantis Says He Would Consider Presidential Pardons for Jan. 6 Rioters"

The Florida governor and Republican presidential candidate said he would be "aggressive" in issuing pardons and suggested he would consider one for former President Donald Trump if needed.

"Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, who officially stepped into the presidential race this week, said Thursday that, if elected, he would consider pardoning people involved in the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol — possibly including his rival for the GOP nomination, former President Donald Trump.

DeSantis has consistently polled second to Trump in national surveys and has sought to draw a contrast with the former president while being reluctant to attack him outright. In an appearance on "The Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Show," a conservative talk radio show, DeSantis said that on "Day One" of his presidency he would have his staff examine cases of Jan. 6 rioters, pro-life demonstrators and parents arrested over their actions at school board meetings, and would be "aggressive" in issuing pardons.

"We will use the pardon power — and I will do that at the front end," DeSantis said, claiming that the Justice Department and the FBI had been "weaponized" to unevenly punish people from "disfavored groups."

When asked whether he would consider pardoning Trump if he were charged with federal offenses, DeSantis responded that "any example of disfavored treatment based on politics or weaponization would be included in that review, no matter how small or how big."

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/202...ters-rcna86393

[aja_christopher]

It's not that tall an order - pushing for either white nationalism or Christian nationalism, passing laws that clearly target minorities based on bigotry, and purposely trying to undermine the foundations of democracy itself are all examples of a politician so extreme that moderates would be better off and better people voting for someone who's worse quality is only being a "typical" member of the other party. This is a measure by which DeSantis fails at to an abysmal extent. The man has passed legislation that can only be called fascist, limiting the power of the press to look into him, going after corporations that speak out against him (free speech is still legal in this country), and changed the law to maintain power while he goes out of state to campaign for more power. These are all things that should turn off any moderate to the point they either don't vote or vote for the other party. Voting for the bigoted anti-press fascist who uses his power to retaliate against those who dare speak up against him is not something you can do and by definition remain a moderate - that is too extreme that the willingness to overlook it makes one complicit in extremism.

He worries about "slippery slopes" regarding immigration but not when white supremacists are shooting up black churches or Muslim mosques.

Truth be told it can't be understated how offensive this is to anyone who believes in civil rights and the value of human life.

His "concerns" make it completely clear where his sympathies lie and it is not with those who are the vicitims of discrimination and violence from "conservative" right-wing Americans -- rational debate won't sway the opinon of those making irrational agruments in response, especially when they disregard facts at their leisure.

It's only a "tall order" to convince a conservative vote against homophobia, racism, fascism and white nationalism because many of them support these behaviors.

Trump, Pence, and DeSantis have all proven this to be true -- if it wasn't then they wouldn't be the frontrunners of the party.

[Vakanai]

"Ron DeSantis Says He Would Consider Presidential Pardons for Jan. 6 Rioters"

The Florida governor and Republican presidential candidate said he would be "aggressive" in issuing pardons and suggested he would consider one for former President Donald Trump if needed.

"Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, who officially stepped into the presidential race this week, said Thursday that, if elected, he would consider pardoning people involved in the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol — possibly including his rival for the GOP nomination, former President Donald Trump.

DeSantis has consistently polled second to Trump in national surveys and has sought to draw a contrast with the former president while being reluctant to attack him outright. In an appearance on "The Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Show," a conservative talk radio show, DeSantis said that on "Day One" of his presidency he would have his staff examine cases of Jan. 6 rioters, pro-life demonstrators and parents arrested over their actions at school board meetings, and would be "aggressive" in issuing pardons.

"We will use the pardon power — and I will do that at the front end," DeSantis said, claiming that the Justice Department and the FBI had been "weaponized" to unevenly punish people from "disfavored groups."

When asked whether he would consider pardoning Trump if he were charged with federal offenses, DeSantis responded that "any example of disfavored treatment based on politics or weaponization would be included in that review, no matter how small or how big."

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/202...ters-rcna86393

First off DeSantis is saying the same lie every republican is these days about the people who took part in Jan. 6 - they were not rioters they were and still are traitors. That's what you call someone who tries to violently overthrow a government because they disagree with a fair and peaceful election, traitors. And keeping that in mind, I think most people tend to agree that traitors should be a "disfavored group", and the FBI going after traitors or criminals unlawfully keeping top secret documents, isn't them being "weaponized" but simply doing their damn job like they're supposed to do. If it had been liberals violently storming the capitol to overthrow a successful Republican presidential win DeSantis wouldn't be making this promise of pardons. If it had been been a Democratic former president who had stolen top secret documents he wouldn't make the claim that the FBI had been weaponized. It's all hypocrisy.

[Tendrin]

But Keith Ellison wore a t-shirt once.

[Deathstroke]

Not like there's a 25 min video about what the **** is wrong about DeSantis

Yeah, that is a pretty good summation of just how horrible he is.

[Dalak]

I missed this post a few days ago, but you seem to describe the article incorrectly.

https://theweek.com/life/1006253/the...er-trans-teens

The article refers to the experiences of "students brought up as girls" and clarifies a description of the views of the author of a paper.

I quoted the answers of the Study you and TheWeek brought up, you quoting TheWeek's article, and rightly pointed out they referred to a large chunk of people as "girls identifying as transgender" when they hadn't revealed how they were assigned at birth. You have misrepresented the article, your arguments, my arguments, and your level of reading comprehension for over a year to avoid admitting you were wrong. I'm fairly sure I've discussed subjects with unrepentant trolls who admitted they were wrong quicker than you.

I can understand people claiming that an obscure Democratic operative wearing a shirt about how love has no borders is exaggerated and that it's worth mentioning years later to someone who noticed. Except it was a guy who was at the time #4 in House Leadership and Vice-Chairman of the DNC, after a unanimous vote. This is someone who many prominent Democrats wanted to be a voice for the party. The context had been in noting that Democrats don't have a limiting principle when it comes to immigration, and that still hasn't been articulated.

When you claim others can't know what people secretly believe, then turn around defending your claim that you know what some people secretly believe, the T-Shirt fits. Then there's that time you claimed all the lefty posters trying to convince others to stop voting Republican were doing so out of a long-term secret desire to make republican candidates more extreme, which you then tried to rationalize by saying it was all subconscious after you were called out on it

I think it's possible to understand where other people are coming from.

So we should make an effort.

The only effort you've shown is gaslighting, sealioning, and otherwise misrepresenting those you disagree with at every turn while holding a hypocritical double-standard on evidence and answering questions.

No, they really can't. You cannot call yourself a moderate Republican and then support a candidate who spews anti-lgbtq garbage just about every time he opens his mouth.

AOC on the otherhand doesn't have that kind of negative aspect that would cause someone who wasn't that far left to object to.

I mean, Ron DeSantis wants to criminalize drag performances, and anyone even saying the word gay in front of children and do everything he can to prevent transgender citizens from receiving medical care, as well as allow doctors to refuse to treat LGBTQ people so they just die based on their "religious beliefs". To say nothing of his history of racist policies, white nationalist anti-immigrant rhetoric, or his inability to even say something is bad about Neo-Nazis.

AOC supports Democratic socialism, believes everyone deserves a fair chance to escape the poverty line through their work, and enjoyed dancing, and well at that, while she was in college.

BOTH SIDES are clearly just as bad, and someone pathetically trying to "WHATABOUTISM" on DeSantis being a white nationalist fascist by just impotently bleating out "BUT AOC!" clearly proves it isn't a fallacy.

I think we all can say the debate is settled.

These tactics are far easier than actually articulating why a vote for Trump is too much for him but a vote for DeSantis is one any moderate shouldn't have to consider outrageous. Evidence has been posted off and on for years now with several bits reposted in the last couple of days, but instead it's "I didn't call him a Moderate" and more Sealioning asking for the already-posted evidence.

If you don't care about the civil and human rights of other human beings then there's nothing anyone can say that can convince you to do so.

There's no reason to pretend this is about "understanding" other perspectives when you ignore, misrepresent and even insult many of them when provided.

As I pointed out when we first spoke: the only thing that will change the mind of a conservative is when they openly suffer from their own policies.

Each post you make only further verifies the accuracy of that statement as you've shown absolutely no concern for the rights of those you are "debating" with.

As it stands now you feel have nothing to lose and everything to gain by supporting a white nationalist party and no amount of rhetoric is going to change that.

If you want to ignore the obvious racist, fascist and homophobic nature of the current Republican party then that's your choice.

But don't try to gaslight others and pretend facts don't exist just because you choose not to accept them.

As an aside, If I just kept posting THIS gifs I wonder when I'd run out?

Are you seriously fucking kidding with this ****?

Nope, he expects us to accept these repeated requests for evidence that has been posted already and the oft-pointed-out playing dumb/obtuse as honest.

Why do you guys still bother engaging?

I can't call out big-name politicians when they are lying and showing a hypocritical double standard, but I can call out those on this thread who do so. It helps show people the truth covered up by the mask of moderation or the "Both Sides" umbrella.

So I don't get into politics, I try not to debate it. I don't follow it at all, I see what people are saying on Twitter, here, an occasional glimpse into news feeds. But from my understanding, it seems like

If I vote left wing, the right-wing will call me a "groomer" or a "pedophile"
And if I vote right wing I'm going to be called a nazi and a supporter of genocide.
I suppose if I vote for neither, I'll be a monster who let it all happen.

Sorry for being cynical but it seems like no matter who wins, both parties want violence on people who disagree with them.

There's just one problem with this indifference...

The right calls the left "groomers" and "pedophiles" and it's a lie.
The left calls the right white nationalists because that's what they are now, and if you support them, you support white nationalism.

I wouldn't say you're being cynical so much as that you might have enough privilege to not care about the lives of the people the right would oppress or even extinguish. I would suggest trying actual empathy for human life. Which, in spite of one party claiming to be "pro-life", they sure have a lot of policies that seem eager to let people die and do nothing about it. Even if we take the white-nationalism out of the equation (which we shouldn't).

The difference is this - conservatives call liberals groomers and pedophiles because they're being insulting and aggressive with no evidence to back their claims. While liberals call right-wingers nazis because Republicans are actually pushing for and pushing through actual laws that are demonstrably racist, misogynist, homophobic, and transphobic.
The left wing is calling the right nazis out of genuine concern born out of the hateful behavior, words, and actions committed by the right wing. The right wing is accusing the left of being pedos because that's the worst thing they can think of to call someone. These two motivators are not the same and are not equally valid.

Has there been some rash of violent democratic/republican attacks on non-voters I've missed? Otherwise any points I'd want to make have been well-posted already.

‘I Can’t Wait Until This Guy Dies’: Former GOP Congressman Says Many Republicans Hope for Trump’s ‘Mortal Demise’



Any man Trump's age who's obese, has a horrid diet, barely exercises (save for golf), endured four years of arguably one of THE most stressful jobs on the planet as President and came down with COVID during the height of the pandemic would've already died, yet Caramel Caligula is still around and giving us the middle finger by surviving, perhaps even thriving. The sad truth is that evil like Trump's just doesn't go away prematurely, no matter how hard people want it to happen.

If there was justice inherent in reality they'd all go out like Mickey Mouse.

[Dalak]

It's not that tall an order - pushing for either white nationalism or Christian nationalism, passing laws that clearly target minorities based on bigotry, and purposely trying to undermine the foundations of democracy itself are all examples of a politician so extreme that moderates would be better off and better people voting for someone who's worse quality is only being a "typical" member of the other party. This is a measure by which DeSantis fails at to an abysmal extent. The man has passed legislation that can only be called fascist, limiting the power of the press to look into him, going after corporations that speak out against him (free speech is still legal in this country), and changed the law to maintain power while he goes out of state to campaign for more power. These are all things that should turn off any moderate to the point they either don't vote or vote for the other party. Voting for the bigoted anti-press fascist who uses his power to retaliate against those who dare speak up against him is not something you can do and by definition remain a moderate - that is too extreme that the willingness to overlook it makes one complicit in extremism.

He worries about "slippery slopes" regarding immigration but not when white supremacists are shooting up black churches or Muslim mosques.

Truth be told it can't be understated how offensive this is to anyone who believes in civil rights and the value of human life.

His "concerns" make it completely clear where his sympathies lie and it is not with those who are the vicitims of discrimination and violence from "conservative" right-wing Americans -- rational debate won't sway the opinon of those making irrational agruments in response, especially when they disregard facts at their leisure.

It's only a "tall order" to convince a conservative vote against homophobia, racism, fascism and white nationalism because many of them support these behaviors.

Trump, Pence, and DeSantis have all proven this to be true -- if it wasn't then they wouldn't be the frontrunners of the party.

"Ron DeSantis Says He Would Consider Presidential Pardons for Jan. 6 Rioters"

The Florida governor and Republican presidential candidate said he would be "aggressive" in issuing pardons and suggested he would consider one for former President Donald Trump if needed.

"Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, who officially stepped into the presidential race this week, said Thursday that, if elected, he would consider pardoning people involved in the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol — possibly including his rival for the GOP nomination, former President Donald Trump.

DeSantis has consistently polled second to Trump in national surveys and has sought to draw a contrast with the former president while being reluctant to attack him outright. In an appearance on "The Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Show," a conservative talk radio show, DeSantis said that on "Day One" of his presidency he would have his staff examine cases of Jan. 6 rioters, pro-life demonstrators and parents arrested over their actions at school board meetings, and would be "aggressive" in issuing pardons.

"We will use the pardon power — and I will do that at the front end," DeSantis said, claiming that the Justice Department and the FBI had been "weaponized" to unevenly punish people from "disfavored groups."

When asked whether he would consider pardoning Trump if he were charged with federal offenses, DeSantis responded that "any example of disfavored treatment based on politics or weaponization would be included in that review, no matter how small or how big."

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/202...ters-rcna86393

First off DeSantis is saying the same lie every republican is these days about the people who took part in Jan. 6 - they were not rioters they were and still are traitors. That's what you call someone who tries to violently overthrow a government because they disagree with a fair and peaceful election, traitors. And keeping that in mind, I think most people tend to agree that traitors should be a "disfavored group", and the FBI going after traitors or criminals unlawfully keeping top secret documents, isn't them being "weaponized" but simply doing their damn job like they're supposed to do. If it had been liberals violently storming the capitol to overthrow a successful Republican presidential win DeSantis wouldn't be making this promise of pardons. If it had been been a Democratic former president who had stolen top secret documents he wouldn't make the claim that the FBI had been weaponized. It's all hypocrisy.

None of this stuff is new, but it does bear repeating sometimes. E: Well the official announcement from DeSantis is new, but it's not like he made his support for them a secret beforehand.

[Mister Mets]

Many of us -- "liberals" or otherwise -- consider racism, homophobia, sexism, and fascism to be "extreme" in nature and feel they should be no where near politics.

If you don't care about the civil and human rights of other human beings then there's nothing anyone can say that can convince you (or any conservative) to do so.

It would be one thing if you had disproven any of the claims of racism, homophobia and white nationalism but instead you didn't even discuss the facts.

You can't claim that this is about "understanding" other perspectives when you ignore, misrepresent and even insult many of them when provided.

As I pointed out when we first spoke: often the only thing that will change the mind of a conservative is when they openly suffer from their own policies.

Each post you make only further verifies the accuracy of that statement as you've shown absolutely no concern for the rights of those you are "debating" with.

As it stands now you feel have nothing to lose and everything to gain by supporting a white nationalist party and no amount of rhetoric is going to change that.

If you want to ignore the obvious racist, fascist and homophobic nature of the current Republican party then that's your choice.

But don't try to gaslight others and pretend the Republcan party doesn't engage in these behaviors just because you refuse to engage them on a forum.

Edit: There is a John Oliver video on DeSantis on this page which provides a perfect opportunity for you to engage this topic directly.

I do care about the civil and human rights of people. It's absurd to think I don't. And it's nasty to say on a public forum.

If you think there's something I should respond to, ask. I still don't like the idea of being blamed for not spending enough time on this message board, because there are some posts I haven't responded to. It's definitely a lie to say that I haven't disproven any claims of bigotry. I noted some instances that were bs.

I might check out the John Oliver video later, but that seems to be more preaching to the choir. It's one thing to recommend a video. We shouldn't insist someone else watch a 25 minute video on the off-chance that it provides the relevant information.

I'm not looking for commentary or exaggeration. If the Governor of Florida is that bad, it should be easy to point out the things that no reasonable person can agree with.

If I claimed that no moderate Democrat should consider voting for Gavin Newsom for President over a Tim Scott type, what type of examples would you insist that I include?

He worries about "slippery slopes" regarding immigration but not when white supremacists are shooting up black churches or Muslim mosques.

Truth be told it can't be understated how offensive this is to anyone who believes in civil rights and the value of human life.

His "concerns" make it completely clear where his sympathies lie and it is not with those who are the vicitims of discrimination and violence from "conservative" right-wing Americans -- rational debate won't sway the opinon of those making irrational agruments in response, especially when they disregard facts at their leisure.

It's only a "tall order" to convince a conservative vote against homophobia, racism, fascism and white nationalism because many of them support these behaviors.

Trump, Pence, and DeSantis have all proven this to be true -- if it wasn't then they wouldn't be the frontrunners of the party.

Has there been any time when I was against the prosecution of a white nationalist who shot up a place of worship?

[aja_christopher]

None of this stuff is new, but it does bear repeating sometimes. E: Well the official announcement from DeSantis is new, but it's not like he made his support for them a secret beforehand.

Says a lot about the Republican party that the only thing that might stop him from winning the Republican nomination is a prison sentence for the frontrunner.

[aja_christopher]

I do care about the civil and human rights of people. It's absurd to think I don't. And it's nasty to say on a public forum.

If you think there's something I should respond to, ask. I still don't like the idea of being blamed for not spending enough time on this message board, because there are some posts I haven't responded to. It's definitely a lie to say that I haven't disproven any claims of bigotry. I noted some instances that were bs.

You're misrepresenting my argument -- that you spend far more time criticizing "liberals" for what you feel they might do than you do Republicans for their actual harmful behaviors and policies against many of your fellow American citizens.

Why you do it is irrelevant as the result -- support for said bigotry and discrimination -- is the same.

The truth isn't "nasty" -- it's the truth as you've shown no concern for the rights of African-American or LGBT American citizens in your responses.

Again -- I'm not even condemning the choice so much as arguing that you can't ignore or misrepresent evidence at your whim and still claim to be objective.

No one is "insisting" anything of you -- your choices are being observed and if that makes you uncomfortable then maybe you should reconsider those choices.

If I claimed that no moderate Democrat should consider voting for Gavin Newsom for President over a Tim Scott type, what type of examples would you insist that I include?

Has there been any time when I was against the prosecution of a white nationalist who shot up a place of worship?

Those are loaded questions the answers to which don't disprove what was argued prior.

[Vakanai]

If the Governor of Florida is that bad, it should be easy to point out the things that no reasonable person can agree with.

These things have been pointed out in this thread. One can just use the "Search This Thread" function up top using the keyword "DeSantis" and find posts linking to credible news media about what he has said and done. From his don't say gay bill, to his laws targeting trans people and drag shows, his laws easing the banning of books, the laws he's passed to stifle the ability of the press or citizens to look into things about him or report on them, his retaliation against a corporation speaking out against his law targeting the gay community, how his law recruitment drive of officers other states don't want is attracting people who by right shouldn't still be cops, how he's willing to pardon violent insurrectionists, and quite a few more I'm surely forgetting, it's all been pointed out before in this thread, often multiple times, and you've seen those posts before. I don't know if you clicked the links or did more than skim through the quoted snippets, but you've seen the headlines of those articles posted about, so I know you're not in the dark about what he has done and said. You only have to go back over the last three or five pages to see posts linking to some source or another about the sins of DeSantis.

Ultimately it's up to you to decide whether these things are "bad enough" to disqualify him from your vote. And this is a democracy, so no one here will stop you from voting for him if you decide to. But please, if you do vote for DeSantis, don't continue to consider yourself a moderate anymore or refer to yourself as such. If one supports extremism, which is what voting for an extremist is really a support for extremism, then that makes one an extremist. I admit that I myself am not a moderate, I'm too left of center for that. And I'm okay with that. Likewise, you'll have to find a way to be ok with not being a moderate if you vote for someone as extreme as DeSantis. Because you can't vote for an extremist without supporting extremism, and you can't support extremism without being an extremist, and you can't be both an extremist and a moderate, that's not how it works.

[Dalak]

Says a lot about the Republican party that the only thing that might stop him from winning the Republican nomination is a prison sentence for the frontrunner.

It does. For anyone to say they can't support Trump, to continue supporting those who are doing their best to BE Trump as well as those who cowardly toe the line wherever he leads no matter what they say out loud is a damning hypocritical double-standard.

And to switch things up a bit:

You're misrepresenting my argument -- that you spend far more time criticizing "liberals" for what you feel they might do than you do Republicans for their actual harmful behaviors and policies against many of your fellow American citizens.

Why you do it is irrelevant as the result -- support for said bigotry and discrimination -- is the same.

The truth isn't "nasty" -- it's the truth as you've shown no concern for the rights of African-American or LGBT American citizens in your responses.

Again -- I'm not even condemning the choice so much as arguing that you can't ignore or misrepresent evidence at your whim and still claim to be objective.

Those are loaded questions the answers to which don't disprove what was argued prior.

These things have been pointed out in this thread. One can just use the "Search This Thread" function up top using the keyword "DeSantis" and find posts linking to credible news media about what he has said and done. From his don't say gay bill, to his laws targeting trans people and drag shows, his laws easing the banning of books, the laws he's passed to stifle the ability of the press or citizens to look into things about him or report on them, his retaliation against a corporation speaking out against his law targeting the gay community, how his law recruitment drive of officers other states don't want is attracting people who by right shouldn't still be cops, how he's willing to pardon violent insurrectionists, and quite a few more I'm surely forgetting, it's all been pointed out before in this thread, often multiple times, and you've seen those posts before. I don't know if you clicked the links or did more than skim through the quoted snippets, but you've seen the headlines of those articles posted about, so I know you're not in the dark about what he has done and said. You only have to go back over the last three or five pages to see posts linking to some source or another about the sins of DeSantis.

Ultimately it's up to you to decide whether these things are "bad enough" to disqualify him from your vote. And this is a democracy, so no one here will stop you from voting for him if you decide to. But please, if you do vote for DeSantis, don't continue to consider yourself a moderate anymore or refer to yourself as such. If one supports extremism, which is what voting for an extremist is really a support for extremism, then that makes one an extremist. I admit that I myself am not a moderate, I'm too left of center for that. And I'm okay with that. Likewise, you'll have to find a way to be ok with not being a moderate if you vote for someone as extreme as DeSantis. Because you can't vote for an extremist without supporting extremism, and you can't support extremism without being an extremist, and you can't be both an extremist and a moderate, that's not how it works.

-----

I might check out the John Oliver video later, but that seems to be more preaching to the choir. It's one thing to recommend a video. We shouldn't insist someone else watch a 25 minute video on the off-chance that it provides the relevant information.

I'm not looking for commentary or exaggeration. If the Governor of Florida is that bad, it should be easy to point out the things that no reasonable person can agree with.

It Was For Years. And just like LastWeekTonight's videos and many of the posts on this thread not from WBE, they show/have links to news reports, interviews with DeSantis, and quotes to provide context. I'm not the only one to point this out, and when you openly refuse to even read/watch provided evidence you aren't even trying to hide the Sealioning anymore.

However now I expect you'll still claim that asking you to read all the reports and search up the posts themselves is too much work for you, when you still won't articulate why exactly a Trump vote was too much for you and a DeSantis vote is one you don't see Moderates having a problem with considering all the evidence provided.