1. #64051
    Extraordinary Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    I agree with you that having and practicing empathy is good, but that using it as some kind of cudgel is bad.

    I'm looking for the worse things he's done.

    The main responses I'm getting tend to combine a lot of stuff, some of which isn't too bad, but I'm looking for quality (or lack thereof) rather than quantity.

    We should treat the other side the way we'd like them to treat us and the most sensitive people on our side. The belief that you're right doesn't mean it's a bad thing to be nice or kind to the people you disagree with.

    I appreciate the response here.

    I wonder how much people really mind that the legislature changed the law to let him run for President just as many sitting Governors have done. Legislatures have the power to change the law, they've done it before in Florida (to make it possible for Charlie Crist to be consdiered for Vice President.) Legislatures in other states make similar changes, including Massachusetts Democrats making it so a Republican Governor couldn't select the replacement of a Senator unable to complete his term, when Kerry ran for President.

    This was an article on stifling reporting. The specifics were exaggerated.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fl...bfdc69164&ei=8
    ...Worse? Any anti-lgbtq+ legislature is too much for anyone who honestly believes in equal rights and that has to be a core belief for anyone who is actually a moderate Republican. It's not hard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    We should treat the other side the way we'd like them to treat us and the most sensitive people on our side. The belief that you're right doesn't mean it's a bad thing to be nice or kind to the people you disagree with.
    You mean like how DeSantis is "nice" to those he disagrees with?

    Again with the "we" -- you need to get it straight that "we" don't always agree with what you believe to be true.

    Especially when you apply completely different standards to those you are voting for versus those you are arguing with.

    Not only are such comments condescending but they are also hypocritical -- you don't get to tell others they should "be nice" in the face of obvious oppression.

    What "we" should do is hold people accountable for rhetoric that encourages actual violence instead of telling people to "be nice" in response.

    Obama tried "being nice" to Republicans and here we are with a right-wing Supreme Court and "moderate" Republicans such as yourself now suggesting that LGBT rights don't matter and white nationalism isnt a serious issue while trying to distract from Republican policies by complaining about people not being "nice" when discussing white supremacists shooting up black churches and Jewish synagogues.

    And how Republican politicans are supporting their behaviors with their rhetoric.

    Maybe when you hold DeSantis to the same standard -- in both word and action -- then people can take such criticism seriously.

    The same applies to the white nationalists and white supremacists whom you've criticized less than those who oppose them.

    Because -- yes -- those are the people on your "side".
    Last edited by aja_christopher; 05-28-2023 at 09:06 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    ...Worse? Any anti-lgbtq+ legislature is too much for anyone who honestly believes in equal rights and that has to be a core belief for anyone who is actually a moderate Republican. It's not hard.
    It is hard to understand if you don't believe in equal rights and support politicians who feel the same.

    If he wanted to address these issues he would have already done so by now instead of repeatedly asking for more "evidence".

    Many Republicans still believe that human and civil rights are negotiable.

    They are getting a wake up call that most Americans do not agree with them.
    Last edited by aja_christopher; 05-28-2023 at 08:56 AM.

  4. #64054
    Postin' since Aug '05 Dalak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Negative Zone View Post
    When I said extreme policies I was mainly thinking of the right to establish some common ground. I mainly only hear about right-wing cause from my online perspective everything seems more liberal, hence my concerns. As for disagreeing, I'm not going to reveal everything I believe on a public place like this. But really unfortunately we disagree on fundamental things and there's no changing that. I don't know what that makes us, but I don't want to be enemies with my fellow man. In my eyes, you're free to vote and convince people to believe how you believe and you can debate/call out my beliefs if you think they're harmful.

    And as for articles, I consider most things people saying are hyperbolic, even things in this thread. It doesn't seem like anyone reads anything beyond headlines anymore. I don't really wanna debate any of that though cause I doubt I'll get anywhere, and I already have five people each responding to my posts.



    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I guess all this talk has made me come to a decision. I did read and hopefully, tried to consider everyone's posts. I will try to worry less about myself and my views and more about the people around me. I want to go against type, and show people that my beliefs do not mean I want to hurt or destroy them.
    I can't call out or debate anything you won't bring up. I can assume it's one of 2-3 stereotypical objections Christians have to certain beliefs I have, but as I've talked to many Christians to whom those stereotypical beliefs weren't a barrier to debate and friendship I think you are being far too worried here. Disagreement doesn't always lead to violence, nastiness, or anger, especially if both sides are arguing in good-faith.

    But as I said before, I can't force you and I won't try. I hope you find someone you feel comfortable talking your issues over with, and that it is sooner rather than later. It's not bad or a sin to ask for help in these cases, nor is it a sign of something wrong with you.


    Quote Originally Posted by worstblogever View Post
    You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

    I don't know how that metaphor applies to jackasses.
    "You Sir, are a gentleman and a mule. Might I call you Jackass?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    He's called the Weaker of the House for a reason.
    That is a great one!

    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    Many people have linked to why Ron Desantis is a terrible choice, but hey, here's another link. But really, it's all common knowledge at this point. You cannot be a moderate but support politicians who choose to disenfranchise the gay and minority communities. It's as simple as that, if someone enacts a law that is discriminatory towards the gay and minority communicates that should an absolutely unelectable candidate for anyone claiming to be a moderate Republican...and if it isn't then that person isn't really moderate.

    And President Trump was nowhere near the center. Again, no one who disparages the gay or minority communities can be center, once you do that you are irrevocably to the right. And if you're saying that those kind of policies and comments are just"generic Republican" then that's VERY telling.
    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    ...Worse? Any anti-lgbtq+ legislature is too much for anyone who honestly believes in equal rights and that has to be a core belief for anyone who is actually a moderate Republican. It's not hard.
    When Moderate becomes code for something else . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Allen View Post
    Smugness being the most empathetic response, of course!

    But hey, when you're right, you're right. Honestly, it rather pains me when others speak of empathy as if it is some sort of cudgel.

    Okay, for our conservative friends: empathy is not some kind of box that gets checked off, and once you have it, it's all good. It's not like ... I mean, consider it less a noun, than a verb, kind of? It's less something you have and more something you do ... as for an example, I do practice empathy when interacting with and even thinking of my few random conservative friends/acquaintances. I even have really old friends who support Trump. Having empathy for that is a continual process.

    I don't know, I kind of can't think of a better example, because these folks support politicians and policies which ... well, ffs, as people have shown over and over on this thread, MAGA=white nationalism, and as both a POC and gender/sexual minority ... I mean yeah, I would love to "insist" that they understand they're supporting a political party that wants me meek and disempowered at best, and literally dead at worst. I mean, I honestly have no idea how they're able to ignore all the violence; or to somehow buy that "Antifa" or Black Lives Matter are somehow greater threats.

    But whatever, again just for the right-leaning: please, please consider the possibility that use of empathy is actually an unambiguous good. That shouldn't be controversial in the slightest. How best to practice empathy is again a continual process, but we seriously have to at least start at a point of understanding that empathy is not ... like an evil philosophy or something?
    I'd heartily encourage this to everyone. Empathy and trying to understand what motivates others are both facets of ourselves that should be encouraged, rather than just given lip service. When it's clear that someone is acting like this matters to them yet proves it to be a lie when they speak, it always makes me a little sad inside, for lying to yourself never works out for anyone in the long-term.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChadH View Post
    It’s almost like their main concern was protecting tax cuts for the wealthy and the rest was just political theater.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    With these far right goon squad members and tea partiers, It's never about ideology, it's always about whatever benefits them directly. They cloak it in the far right memes and rhetoric that their base uses, but they don't give a hoot for any of them, unless they have enough dollars to line pockets (and other places).
    Political Theater for personal gain is very popular nowadays.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    The most frustrating thing for me is that, there are so many problems (and problem makers) these days, but so little is being done about it//them.

    Clarence Thomas is still on the Supreme Court, Ron DeSantis is still turning Florida into a dictatorship (and I got word that people are actually still moving down there), Trump is still getting media attention but not enough DOJ attention, and so on.

    Other countries much be in disbelief at how irrationally tolerant we are of troublemakers and how incredibly slow we are in solving even the most basic social and political problems.
    That's a huge problem I have as well: Clear wrongdoing being protected/excused by rules and procedure that's ignored by those defending it whenever it's convenient. And the worst part is that they keep getting away with it, because there's no authority they will respect as they've been able to weasel out of punishment and given rewards for it their entire lives like spoiled children.

    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    You mean like how DeSantis is so "nice" to those he disagrees with?

    Again with the "we" -- you need to get it straight that "we" don't always agree with what you believe to be true.

    Especially when you apply completely different standards to those you are voting for versus those you are arguing with.

    Not only are such comments condescending but they are also hypocritical -- you don't get to tell others they should "be nice" in the face of obvious oppression.

    What "we" should do is hold people accountable for rhetoric that encourages actual violence instead of telling people to "be nice" in response.

    Obama tried "being nice" to Republicans and here we are with a right-wing Supreme Court and "moderate" Republicans such as yourself now suggesting that LGBT rights don't matter and white nationalism isnt a serious issue while trying to distract from your lack of response by complaining about people not being "nice" when discussing white supremacists shooting up black churches and Jewish synagogues.

    And how Republican politicans are supporting their behaviors with their rhetoric.

    Maybe when you hold DeSantis to the same standard -- in both word and action -- then people can take such criticism seriously.

    The same applies to the white nationalists and white supremacists whom you've criticized less than those who oppose them.
    Decorum is often just a shield for those who want to be dismissive and condescending without consequence, especially when it comes to conservatives. When they refuse to admit they are wrong, care nothing about actual truth or fact during debates, and use Decorum to silence any objections, it's more than clear what matters to them. I watched hours of those kinds of Conservatives debating yesterday in a desperate attempt to protect Ken Paxton from his punishment, and somehow they still overwhelmingly voted to impeach him. The ones defending him aren't rare, they are the majority of the GoP (Voters included). They aren't just dismissing the evidence or the facts of guilt/innocence, they're doing it to protect political power for their chosen side. That behavior needs to be called out and condemned across the country as far as I'm concerned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    The most frustrating thing for me is that, there are so many problems (and problem makers) these days, but so little is being done about it//them.

    Clarence Thomas is still on the Supreme Court, Ron DeSantis is still turning Florida into a dictatorship (and I got word that people are actually still moving down there), Trump is still getting media attention but not enough DOJ attention, and so on.

    Other countries much be in disbelief at how irrationally tolerant we are of troublemakers and how incredibly slow we are in solving even the most basic social and political problems.
    Because dealing with those would benefit EVERYONE and not a select set of folks.

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  7. #64057
    Mighty Member 4saken1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Negative Zone View Post
    If I vote left wing, the right-wing will call me a "groomer" or a "pedophile"
    And if I vote right wing I'm going to be called a nazi and a supporter of genocide.
    I suppose if I vote for neither, I'll be a monster who let it all happen.
    The wonderful thing about voting is that you don't have to tell ANYONE who you voted for.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Negative Zone View Post
    Yet, you're already suggesting I need to have empathy, like I'm sort of sociopath.
    Everybody could use more empathy. I struggle with it myself in my interpersonal relationships and am in therapy trying to develop skills which will enable myself a more broad spectrum of emotions as well as to regulate the ones which have caused harm to those that I care about. Try to divorce yourself of any judgement, whether perceived or real, about becoming more empathetic. It is something this world can use a lot more of. As long as that is something that you are striving for, there is no shame in where you currently are in that journey. One thing that might help along the way is to become aware (if you are not already) of the negative implications that the rhetoric from the religious right has had on the LGBTQ community in the form of increased violence against them and laws which have curtailed their ability to achieve the "Pursuit of Happiness" which is their unailienable right as stated in our Constitution.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Negative Zone View Post
    But I do have plenty "wrong" beliefs because of my religion. I don't want to hurt anyone for my religious beliefs, but I wouldn't want people to hurt themselves either. I believe you guys are truly doing what you think is right, even if I disagree a lot.
    Other than the existence of God and the veracity of the claims in the Bible, there's not a lot about the teachings of your religion that myself and many others think is "wrong". I am a big fan, actually, of the teachings of the Jesus character in the Bible. It seems to me that most conservative faiths have veered away from them, however, and preach mainly things that are not supported by the New Testament or are a perversion of what is said therein. Many of the things espoused by conservative Christians as being their religious "beliefs" are grounded in having a near comlete apathy or often even outright hate for those deemed as "other". That is not their religion, though, but instead a depraved version of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Negative Zone View Post
    I just have never feel informed enough to make a conscience choice for my own voting. And while I'm sure all of you have plenty of articles to link me, I don't know if I believe anything I read anymore.
    Pretty sure that is the goal of Republican strategists. If you don't believe what you read, you are more likely to makean uneducated guess based on little more than a gut feeling. Most often, these 'gut feelings' materialize as anger or fear. If right wing pundits can get their viewers (or even those that have been only peripherally exposed) to feel angry or fearful about some impending doom, no amount of information is going to be able to penetrate that.

    For me, it's not about not believing what you read. Most of what you read, even stuff on the right, is based in fact. I find that the main difference is the frequencies at which right wing outlets leave out pertinent information which drastically affects the narrative of a story and how they try to steer you into believing things that simply are not true. My advice - don't stop reading anything! Find the relevant information in a story, then find the same story as presented by an opposing voice. Find out what was purposefully left out to try to shift the narrative. Once you haver determined which sources are more reliable (none are perfect), you can become more confident that what you are reading isn't meant to mislead you. Even still, some degree of bias naturally exists within everyone and occasionally they will get things wrong. Never stop fact checking!
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    Astonishing Member Panfoot's Avatar
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    So as a trans person in Florida let me tell you about how "moderate" DeSantis is, and by extension the Republicans...

    -Access to hormones is now precarious, the recent laws banned the way most(roughly 80%) of us got our prescriptions, sending everyone scrambling to try and get set up with a doctor that can treat them. This is compounded further by the other recent laws that allow doctors to discriminate and refuse to treat us, not just not for HRT, just as a patient AT ALL. Oh and to continue getting care you know need to sign a form from DeSantis handpicked health board which contains a bunch of medical misinformation. They also have the power to pull a Missouri and decide "no care for anyone" ANY DAY.

    -We've got the infamous "bathroom bill" now too, so now not only is it dangerous for us to use public restrooms as before, now if your in the wrong place you risk jail time. For using a bathroom

    -Thanks to the "Don't Say Gay" bill and the book banning, you can't acknowledge *our existence*, along with any other LGBT members, in schools. LGBT teachers can't even have pictures of their spouses.

    -I've seen firsthand the recent "boycott" at my local target. Last week they had the Pride display out at the front, but this week? Not only is it not hidden deeper in the store like some articles have been saying, it's gone, completely. No rainbow merchandise at all, because of terrorist threats.

    -The whole "groomer" and "pedophile" thing has been a success in dehumanizing us, rampant transphobia (and to a lesser extent homophobia) is just accepted just about everywhere.

    I could go on and on and that's only for myself, as an adult, that's not even begging to get into how much worse it its for anyone under 18, where the recent bills WILL cause even more suicides. All because the Republicans have no policy, nothing to make the country better, all they have is hate to retain their power, and were the easiest target. We have essentially zero political representation and support from the Democrats is tepid at best, the % of the US population of adults that identify as trans is 0.5, and yet...there has been 555 anti trans bills in the US this year alone, so far.

    So yeah, I'm gonna keep calling out that Nazi **** every single time, because i'm so god damned tired of having to justify my existence.
    -

  9. #64059
    Extraordinary Member CaptainEurope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I saw the GOP presser on the deal for the debt ceiling. Sounds like there are quite a few spending cuts and work requirements in there. Unless I heard wrong.

    My question is the GOP are happy about it. But what are the chances the Dems in the Senate vote it through.
    Rep. Anne Kuster, head of New Dems, a center-left bloc, signaled that her 99-member group may support the plan.FxOw0wKWIAQJpwx.jpg

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    Extraordinary Member CaptainEurope's Avatar
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    Conservative moderates are reacting like this:

    Screenshot 2023-05-28 201313.jpgFxPBl89XwAEhlnw.jpg
    Last edited by CaptainEurope; 05-28-2023 at 11:21 AM.

  11. #64061
    Invincible Jersey Ninja Tami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    The most frustrating thing for me is that, there are so many problems (and problem makers) these days, but so little is being done about it//them.

    Clarence Thomas is still on the Supreme Court, Ron DeSantis is still turning Florida into a dictatorship (and I got word that people are actually still moving down there), Trump is still getting media attention but not enough DOJ attention, and so on.

    Other countries must be in disbelief at how irrationally tolerant we are of troublemakers and how incredibly slow we are in solving even the most basic social and political problems.
    Do you ever get the feeling that Democrats aren't doing enough?

    Opinion - Biden isn’t doing enough in the fight against Republican extremism

    An increasingly radical Republican Party is using its power, particularly at the state level and on the judiciary, to attack women seeking reproductive care, transgender Americans, Black politicians and activists, unions, colleges and professors, Democratic-led cities, public libraries, and a vast array of other people, groups and institutions with liberal values.

    And President Biden is doing little about this right-wing assault.

    The result is a one-sided conflict. Republican officials are acting as though they’re in a war, while Biden and many powerful Democratic officials not only don’t defend their own side but also largely refuse to acknowledge the fight.
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  12. #64062
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    Do you ever get the feeling that Democrats aren't doing enough?

    ...
    Only about twenty-four times a day...

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    Extraordinary Member CaptainEurope's Avatar
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    Apparently, the Belarus dictator Lukashenko had a meeting with Putin and... has been rushed to a Moscow hospital with signs of severe poisoning. So far, these are rumors coming from opposition circles. But Luke has not been seen in public since the meeting.
    Last edited by CaptainEurope; 05-28-2023 at 12:19 PM.

  14. #64064
    Extraordinary Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    Do you ever get the feeling that Democrats aren't doing enough?

    Opinion - Biden isn’t doing enough in the fight against Republican extremism
    I mean, what would you do?
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainEurope View Post
    Apparently, the Belarus dictator Lukashenko had a meeting with Putin and... has been rushed to a Moscow hospital with signs of severe poisoning. So far, these are rumors coming from opposition circles. But Luke has not been seen in public since the meeting.
    It'd be hilarious to me if Putin is actually innocent

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