All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[CaptainEurope]

‘Murderers’ and ‘criminals’: Meteorologists face unprecedented harassment from conspiracy theorists


https://edition.cnn.com/2023/05/27/w...ntl/index.html

I never thought something as dumb as chemtrails would make such a huge comeback.

[JackDaw]

I like how conservatives say they want to destroy "woke ideology" without explaining that woke ideology is basically "address systemic injustices" like racism and misogyny. It allows them to say what they've wanted to say all along without having to actually say "I want to leave the notion that women deserve equal pay as men and that I shouldn't set up black men to fail and fall or remain in poverty or the prison system to the dustbin of history!" Because that's what they're always actually talking about.

Of course, it is (quite often).

But I also think it sometimes reflects a genuine irritation at what seems to be pedantry, and acting as if verbal terms used without any real malice, are as evil as deliberate cruelty or denying people opportunities depending on their race or gender.

I certainly think at times you have to look beyond a person's exact wording, and make judgments based on their overall character, their likely intent, etc, etc.

[CaptainEurope]

Of course, it is (quite often).

But I also think it sometimes reflects a genuine irritation at what seems to be pedantry, and acting as if verbal terms used without any real malice, are as evil as deliberate cruelty or denying people opportunities depending on their race or gender.

I certainly think at times you have to look beyond a person's exact wording, and make judgments based on their overall character, their likely intent, etc, etc.

You're thinking of "political correctness" from 20 years ago or so.

[JackDaw]

You're thinking of "political correctness" from 20 years ago or so.

Am I?

So if I meet an elderly relative who I know to be generous and fair minded and she or he employs a phrase from long ago I should disregard everything I know about them?

Or when I meet some one from a completely different culture from mine and they use a phrase that carries racist overtones in my own culture I should immediately assume “racist”?.

Realistically, I’m just practicing empathy by trying to really understand where the other person is coming from.

[Tami]

A British Reporter Had a Big #MeToo Scoop. Her Editor Killed It.

nside the Financial Times newsroom this winter, one of its star investigative reporters, Madison Marriage, had a potentially explosive scoop involving another newspaper.

A prominent left-wing columnist, Nick Cohen, had resigned from Guardian News & Media, and Ms. Marriage had evidence that his departure followed years of unwanted sexual advances and groping of female journalists.

Ms. Marriage specialized in such investigations. She won an award for exposing a handsy black-tie event for Britain’s business elite. A technology mogul got indicted on rape charges after another article.

But her investigation on Mr. Cohen, which she hoped would begin a broader look at sexual misconduct in the British news media, was never published. The Financial Times’ editor, Roula Khalaf, killed it, according to interviews with a dozen Financial Times journalists.

It was not spiked because of reporting problems. Two women were willing to speak openly, and Ms. Marriage had supporting documentation on others. Rather, Ms. Khalaf said that Mr. Cohen did not have a big enough business profile to make him an “F.T. story,” colleagues said.

Mr. Cohen’s departure and the death of Ms. Marriage’s article offer a window into the British news media’s complicated relationship with the #MeToo movement. Leading American newsrooms — Fox News, CNN, NBC, The New York Times and others — have confronted misconduct allegations. British journalism has seen no such reckoning.

[ed2962]

I like how conservatives say they want to destroy "woke ideology" without explaining that woke ideology is basically "address systemic injustices" like racism and misogyny. It allows them to say what they've wanted to say all along without having to actually say "I want to leave the notion that women deserve equal pay as men and that I shouldn't set up black men to fail and fall or remain in poverty or the prison system to the dustbin of history!" Because that's what they're always actually talking about.

It's in the best interests or political hacks and grifters to leave the definition of "woke" as vague as possible allowing people to project whatever they don't like about liberals, Democrats, or progressives onto the term. It allows them to them to limit voting rights and ban books, under the guise of fighting "wokeness"...all while taking money from lobbyist and corporate donors.

[Kirby101]

Am I?

So if I meet an elderly relative who I know to be generous and fair minded and she or he employs a phrase from long ago I should disregard everything I know about them?

Or when I meet some one from a completely different culture from mine and they use a phrase that carries racist overtones in my own culture I should immediately assume “racist”?.

Realistically, I’m just practicing empathy by trying to really understand where the other person is coming from.

That is political correctness. Woke is understanding that all people, no matter their race, sex or orientation should be treated fairly and equally. That the abuses of the past should be addressed and not forgotten and pushed aside.

I belive Woke came out of a phrase Black people used in the 60s, "wake up white people!". That became "are you woke?" In other words, do you see how your fellow man is treated?

[Adam Allen]

Am I?

So if I meet an elderly relative who I know to be generous and fair minded and she or he employs a phrase from long ago I should disregard everything I know about them?

Or when I meet some one from a completely different culture from mine and they use a phrase that carries racist overtones in my own culture I should immediately assume “racist”?.

Realistically, I’m just practicing empathy by trying to really understand where the other person is coming from.

I'm confused at what exactly you are criticizing? Is it "woke" leftists literally criticizing other people for not being "woke"?

I mean, if you're criticizing people calling other people's words/actions "racist", then just be clear on that, and leave "woke" out of it ... because I don't think anybody on the left is much using "woke" as a some kind of standard someone may fail at or lack. Empathy sure ... conservatives are often rightly called out for lacking that. But the "woke" thing is a Jedi mind-trick the right has pulled: "Woke" is another perfect target for an endless made up conflict, like "War on Drugs" or "War on Terror" ... when it's really just the packaging for whatever fascist scheme they've gotten up to lately.

What was it, from Spaceballs?



Not saying I necessarily agree with all the sentiments about how well the "high road" has been working for Democrats ... but it does feel that way, sometimes.

[Adam Allen]

That is political correctness. Woke is understanding that all people, no matter their race, sex or orientation should be treated fairly and equally. That the abuses of the past should be addressed and not forgotten and pushed aside.

I belive Woke came out of a phrase Black people used in the 60s, "wake up white people!". That became "are you woke?" In other words, do you see how your fellow man is treated?

I don't think there was ever any avalanche of accusations of people not being politically correct, either.

More just people complaining about "political correctness", when what they meant is that they couldn't be as openly bigoted with absolute guarantee of no repercussion, as they would like. I mean, we know it's not like racism, sexism, any of our various deeply ingrained societal ills -- we know they're not gone, they just can't be expressed the same way.

My heart doesn't really break, that you might get some reactions you don't like, if you say things that are offensive. Maybe try not to do that, would be my suggestion. It's generally worked pretty well for me.*


(Edit: To be clear, my criticism of the term "political correctness" is not at all aimed at you, Kirby101! Just want to clarify, since I'm responding to your post!)

[Dalak]

Well, looks like Turkey got 5 more years of Erdogan. Or however much his health will allow him, he collapsed during a TV appearance a few weeks ago.

I don't wish him to pass before his time, but I hope it is a fitting way to go for such a person.

Russian state TV host calls for assassinating Lindsey Graham

Well, now, THAT sure doesn't sound good. If I'm Lindsey, I make a note to avoid windows on high floors in hotels, and hire a food tester.

This will do nothing to sway the GoP and their adoration of Putin. Graham has already been thrown under the bus in so many other situations at this point I'm sure they don't truly care about him.

Trump's last-minute Merrick Garland letter is a desperate pre-emptive strike

Asking for something you know is going to be refused because it can't be accepted to complain it was refused is very fitting of modern conservatism.

Empathy leads to trying to help our less fortunate citizens, which costs money, which could lead to raising taxes on our most fortunate citizens so the GOP shuts that **** down PDQ.

…and for those who don’t have massive amounts of cash (and a few of those who do, and who dislike pangs of conscience intruding on their self-image), there’s a self-narrative and identity reason to try finding a way to codify empathy and compassion as a weakness, or even, on some twisted level, a vice.

Greater awareness of you fellow man leads to being aware of inequity, and of the capacity for society to try addressing it as both the micro- and macro-level… and of how to recognize actions that go against that.

If you decided some time ago that “Number go up!” was the sign of virtue, strength, and righteousness, whether that be the number on the bank account or the stock market, you don’t then want it pointed out that the number going up is the result of other people work far harder than you have in excruciating, soul-crushing conditions, or that you’ve caused immense suffering for minimal improvement of the world… and on top of that, you donkt want to hear about success stories where someone valued different stuff and had both a measurable secular *and* spiritual improvement on the world.

If you want your hero to be the jet-setting tycoon who’s luxuries you want, you’re going to loathe hearing that he’s a spoiled brat from a murderous slave master who worked people to death for diamonds, isn’t actually all that smart, and has had less positive impact than, say, a community leader mobilizing a gun buy back or a soup kitchen for migrant workers.

At this point, I'm starting to think a requirement of a modern Republican is not to have any empathy, as well as a lack of a gag reflex, to not start vomiting upon all the things said by the MAGA faithful that are their voting base, and now, largely their party's core elected representatives. Everyone with either of those two things went for the exits.

Empathy isn't a bad thing even when you know there's nothing you can do to help the situation. Being able to see things from the perspective of another helps to ensure we don't dehumanize them, but when someone has shown you who they are by what they say and do it doesn't mean you have to sympathize with them when you are trying to understand them.

An Indian official has been suspended from his job for wasting hundreds of thousands of gallons of water after ordering a reservoir drained in a bid to find his cellphone.

So glad to know that massive stupidity isn't exclusive to America.

Lets be honest , if this was an IPhone 14 he would have been alright to do this. In fact he could have drained a river to get that back if possible.

The guy probably has some super-duper embarrassing stuff on the phone.

Stuff he probably can't explain to anyone.

The odds the phone would ever be found at the bottom there was so remote though. Like it's something no one would really search for and if someone did find it...it was broken from water damage.

I'm with The Cool Thatguy here.

Angry, violent and abusive: Unsealed court docs allege Stewart Rhodes created ‘constant fear’ at home

Who could have ever guessed this guy was such a horrible person, who is being made a Hero by elected GoP officialls and many conservative pundits & personalities.

‘Murderers’ and ‘criminals’: Meteorologists face unprecedented harassment from conspiracy theorists

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/05/27/w...ntl/index.html

I never thought something as dumb as chemtrails would make such a huge comeback.

Flat Earthers still exist and are occasionally injuring themselves trying to prove their theories. The oldies never go away.

https://www.rawstory.com/ron-desanti..._section_start

I don't need to point out what would happen if a liberal said anything remotely similar about 'destroying conservatism', and what the unequal treatment of these two notions would receive if the positions were reversed. We all know *exactly* what kind of shitstorm would emerge. It's just another example of the asymmetry of our politics.

To fascists, plurality of opinion is a problem to solve. By any means they deam necessary.

I like how conservatives say they want to destroy "woke ideology" without explaining that woke ideology is basically "address systemic injustices" like racism and misogyny. It allows them to say what they've wanted to say all along without having to actually say "I want to leave the notion that women deserve equal pay as men and that I shouldn't set up black men to fail and fall or remain in poverty or the prison system to the dustbin of history!" Because that's what they're always actually talking about.

It's in the best interests or political hacks and grifters to leave the definition of "woke" as vague as possible allowing people to project whatever they don't like about liberals, Democrats, or progressives onto the term. It allows them to them to limit voting rights and ban books, under the guise of fighting "wokeness"...all while taking money from lobbyist and corporate donors.

Like CRT, they are lumping everything they don't like about liberal policies under a single title to rile up the conservative base. It has very little to do with actual reality, and helps to disguise their bigoted facist goals as already mentioned.

Of course, it is (quite often).

But I also think it sometimes reflects a genuine irritation at what seems to be pedantry, and acting as if verbal terms used without any real malice, are as evil as deliberate cruelty or denying people opportunities depending on their race or gender.

I certainly think at times you have to look beyond a person's exact wording, and make judgments based on their overall character, their likely intent, etc, etc.

I agree wholeheartedly, but see below. It is very pedantic for anyone to get stuck on an unimportant issue that they know doesn't matter to the overall conversation/point.

Am I?

So if I meet an elderly relative who I know to be generous and fair minded and she or he employs a phrase from long ago I should disregard everything I know about them?

Or when I meet some one from a completely different culture from mine and they use a phrase that carries racist overtones in my own culture I should immediately assume “racist”?.

Realistically, I’m just practicing empathy by trying to really understand where the other person is coming from.

If you have no other reason to assume they are a bigot, you warn them about how the phrase is seen nowadays and you recommend they stop using it, it's not that hard. Their reaction to a mild criticism will help to reveal whether they are/aren't a bigot in reality.

People who leap to assuming you are a racist instantly aren't people I associate with if I can avoid it.

A British Reporter Had a Big #MeToo Scoop. Her Editor Killed It.

I would like to hear a british opinion on this story, as our cultures are very different in some ways.

[useridgoeshere]

I'm confused at what exactly you are criticizing? Is it "woke" leftists literally criticizing other people for not being "woke"?

I mean, if you're criticizing people calling other people's words/actions "racist", then just be clear on that, and leave "woke" out of it ... because I don't think anybody on the left is much using "woke" as a some kind of standard someone may fail at or lack. Empathy sure ... conservatives are often rightly called out for lacking that. But the "woke" thing is a Jedi mind-trick the right has pulled: "Woke" is another perfect target for and endless made up conflict, like "War on Drugs" or "War on Terror" ... when it's really just the packaging for whatever fascist scheme they've gotten up to lately.

Don't forget the "War on Christmas", which is my favorite one of these stupid crusades.

[Kirby101]

I don't think there was ever any avalanche of accusations of people not being politically correct, either.

More just people complaining about "political correctness", when what they meant is that they couldn't be as openly bigoted with absolute guarantee of no repercussion, as they would like. I mean, we know it's not like racism, sexism, any of our various deeply ingrained societal ills -- we know they're not gone, they just can't be expressed the same way.

My heart doesn't really break, that you might get some reactions you don't like, if you say things that are offensive. Maybe try not to do that, would be my suggestion. It's generally worked pretty well for me.*


(Edit: To be clear, my criticism of the term "political correctness" is not at all aimed at you, Kirby101! Just want to clarify, since I'm responding to your post!)

I took it that way and agree Adam.

[Username taken]

My heart doesn't really break, that you might get some reactions you don't like, if you say things that are offensive. Maybe try not to do that, would be my suggestion. It's generally worked pretty well for me.*

Exactly this.

I don't know why this is so difficult. The problem is that a lot of white people have defined themselves by their bigotry so the inability to express said bigotry is taken as a personal attack.

As an individual, I don't use offensive language or slurs of any kind because it's not stuff I keep in my vocabulary or thoughts.

Life just seems much easier when respecting people and not offending anyone.

[Mister Mets]

You mean like how DeSantis is "nice" to those he disagrees with?

Again with the "we" -- you need to get it straight that "we" don't always agree with what you believe to be true.

Especially when you apply completely different standards to those you are voting for versus those you are arguing with.

Not only are such comments condescending but they are also hypocritical -- you don't get to tell others they should "be nice" in the face of obvious oppression.

What "we" should do is hold people accountable for rhetoric that encourages actual violence instead of telling people to "be nice" in response.

Obama tried "being nice" to Republicans and here we are with a right-wing Supreme Court and "moderate" Republicans such as yourself now suggesting that LGBT rights don't matter and white nationalism isnt a serious issue while trying to distract from Republican policies by complaining about people not being "nice" when discussing white supremacists shooting up black churches and Jewish synagogues.

And how Republican politicans are supporting their behaviors with their rhetoric.

Maybe when you hold DeSantis to the same standard -- in both word and action -- then people can take such criticism seriously.

The same applies to the white nationalists and white supremacists whom you've criticized less than those who oppose them.

Because -- yes -- those are the people on your "side".

You as an individual may not believe that as human beings we should strive to treat people on the other side of most issues the same way we would want our side to be treated.

The typical politician doesn't meet that standard. I'm not claiming DeSantis does, but that's not really a partisan thing.

If you disagree with a post, quote it. I think you misinterpret older comments if you think I support white nationalists.

By exaggerating their power, it does give them comfort, because it contributes to a sense they're on the verge of victory.

You have access to the same Internet that the rest of us do.

But I don't know what persuaded you.

I personally don't like when either party passes "stay in power" laws just because I personally always feel like it's a slippery slope to eventually doing away with term limits, but it might not register that way to you.

It's still stifling - the free press is meant to be "free" and DeSantis' continued efforts to destroy transparency and hide things is chilling whether the effects are exaggerated or not. Imagine how it'll go if he has the power of the presidency?

But the biggest thing that is not up for debate, what makes him an extremist and thus no one who votes for him can in good conscience still reclaim to be a moderate, is his attacks on minority communities, his legislation against the LGBTQ+ community especially, but also his attacks on African American history education, as well as his attacks on those who speak against him like Disney. The man treats trans people and gay people extremely poorly to put it insanely mildly, tries to have schools pretend like systemic racism has never existed never mind still exists, and uses his power to punish anyone who disagrees. Do you have a defense for his anti-LGBTQ laws and rhetoric? Do you have a defense for uses political power to punish corporations that speak against such laws and rhetoric? Basically, if you can't give me or anyone else a defense for those particular actions, then I think you have to know deep down that those actions are indefensible. Moderates don't vote for the indefensible, that's part of what makes them moderates, they can't support the extremes like that.

I disagree with some of his policies, but the criticism tends to be overblown.

Empathy leads to trying to help our less fortunate citizens, which costs money, which could lead to raising taxes on our most fortunate citizens so the GOP shuts that **** down PDQ.

This assumes agreement about what works to help our less fortunate citizens.

The main argument for the right is that programs not only cost money, but makes things worse.

Of course, it is (quite often).

But I also think it sometimes reflects a genuine irritation at what seems to be pedantry, and acting as if verbal terms used without any real malice, are as evil as deliberate cruelty or denying people opportunities depending on their race or gender.

I certainly think at times you have to look beyond a person's exact wording, and make judgments based on their overall character, their likely intent, etc, etc.

This gets to a few issues.

There are calls for purity that make it impossible to win elections. If your view is that a majority position is so disgusting that it shouldn't even be entertained, it's going to be hard to persuade a majority to vote for you.

Messaging to centrists becomes difficult if officials have to worry about activists insisting that you use their language.

That's a conversation that should be had very carefully.

It is also frustrating for people who feel that their language is policed and that they suddenly have yo abide by the cultural norms of outsiders.

[aja_christopher]

You as an individual may not believe that as human beings we should strive to treat people on the other side of most issues the same way we would want our side to be treated.

The typical politician doesn't meet that standard. I'm not claiming DeSantis does, but that's not really a partisan thing.

If you disagree with a post, quote it. I think you misinterpret older comments if you think I support white nationalists.?

By exaggerating their power, it does give them comfort, because it contributes to a sense they're on the verge of victory.

This is not about what I “think” — this is about facts and evidence.

Nothing is being misinterpreted — if you support candidates who promote white nationalism and homophobia then you support it as well.

If you disagree then provide counter evidence to the evidence already provided.