1. #33256
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    Gold rushes only tend to enrich a few, often those who are already wealthy to begin with. The number of miners who became rich from the Alaskan Gold rush can be counted on one hand - the better way to make a killing was to open a business and rip off the miners. It's what a certain German immigrant turned hotel magnate did.
    "From 1792 until 1847 cumulative U.S. production of gold was only about 37 tons. California’s production in 1849 alone exceeded this figure, and annual production from 1848 to 1857 averaged 76 tons. During this decade California’s gold production equaled $550 million – about 1.8% of American GDP.

    The two other gold rushes of the nineteenth century that rival California’s in size and impact began in Australia in 1851 and South Africa in 1886. (Smaller gold rushes include those in British Columbia (1858), Nevada and Colorado (1859), South Dakota (1876) and Canada’s Yukon (1898).) The Australian gold rush triggered a tripling of population to 1.1 million in the following ten years. This gold rush seems to have reduced Australia’s industrialization – at least in the short term – because high returns from mining pulled workers out of other sectors. Australians began importing goods which they had previously manufactured.

    An additional impact of gold rushes of the nineteenth century was on prices. Because precious metals were at the base of the monetary system, rushes increased the money supply which resulted in inflation. Soaring gold output from the California and Australia gold rushes is linked with a thirty percent increase in wholesale prices between 1850 and 1855. Likewise, right at the end of the nineteenth century a surge in gold production reversed a decades-long deflationary trend and is often credited with aiding indebted farmers and helping to end the Populist Party’s strength and its call for a bimetallic (gold and silver) money standard."
    You also had the Chinese coming to the US and American's taking a sizable chunk of the gold rush profit before and after they processed, essentially making them slaves. Then you had the foreign miner tax ... GDP was stifled.

    Each gold rush in the US increased inflation since our money was backed by precious minerals. With that in mind, the net result is a loss in GDP growth. The max being that 1.8% for that 10 year period. Other than a few lucky SOBs that found a vein first, it really only made the rich, more rich.

    As for slavery, 80% of the nation’s gross national product was tied to slavery in the 1860s, which was slavery's peak. That 5-50% is a bunch of revisionist garbage.

    The pre-Civil War South, produced well over half of all US export earnings with slave-grown cotton. Nothing else. By the 1840s ... the South grew 60% of the world's cotton while 70% was consumed by the British textile industry. The North developed a variety of businesses that provided services for the South (textile factories, meat processing, insurance companies, shippers, cotton brokers, equipment manufacturing for tools, etc.). Mix that all together and you will see it damn well near 80% on the conservative side of things.

    ... Is that really one of the arguments going on here???

    I thought the current talking point for returning to bygone eras was the 1950s post-WWII America?

    Which is whole other nebulous can of worms ...
    Last edited by BeastieRunner; 09-15-2021 at 05:49 PM.
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  2. #33257
    Invincible Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Thanks Beastie. I quoted those numbers because my Google search was all over the place, and those were the numbers I saw.
    Thanks for the deeper research.
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  3. #33258
    Invincible Jersey Ninja Tami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    You are going to have to back that up, considering that slaves of the South produced 60% of the worlds cotton.

    I have seen figures from 5% to 50% on slavery and the GDP, while the best estimate for the '49 Gold Rush is 1.8%
    Trivia, my Great Grandfather lost his fortune mining for gold.
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  4. #33259
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    Kirby if you can not admit that Democrats commit massive voter fraud every election by having millions no Billions of illegal votes including illegal immigrants, dead people, Russians and Chinese citizens, pets of candidates, energy beings from the 5th dimension, what about that pregnant woman who gave birth to her baby 7 months early to vote for Democrat?? and all of this done with out a paper trail, voice recordings, emails. That fact that it cant be proven shows how deep this goes.. Didnt you see the space ships that landed at polling places so Aliens can vote for Biden? You are the one living in denile I am sorry to say.

    I mean in the last election there were more votes for Democrat candidates then there are people in the world! How do you explain this?

    And Trump demaning the GA Ag that he find votes any way he can? That is not attempted fraud. That is leveling the playing field.
    Anyone can go with bad-faith exaggerated versions of another side's arguments. I suspect conservatives might be able to do it a bit better, given how much the media covers progressive arguments, which necessitates a higher level of familiarity. A problem is that a right-wing equivalent of your post might come across as if a poster on the left had too much to drink.
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  5. #33260
    Invincible Jersey Ninja Tami's Avatar
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    Synagogue protesters protected by First Amendment, appeals court rules

    CINCINNATI (CN) — An appeals court panel ruled Wednesday that weekly protests on the sidewalks outside a Michigan synagogue are constitutionally protected speech because they deal with matters of public concern.

    The Sixth Circuit decision affirmed a federal judge's dismissal of various constitutional and state-law claims brought by members of Ann Arbor's Beth Israel Synagogue, who claim anti-Israeli protests have inflicted extreme emotional distress on the Jewish community.

    Protesters have gathered outside the synagogue every Saturday since September 2003, and often carry signs with anti-Semitic messages that have included "Jewish Power Corrupts," "Resist Jewish Power," and "No More Wars for Israel."

    Two members of the congregation, including Holocaust survivor Miriam Brysk, sued the protesters and the city of Ann Arbor in 2019, but to no avail.

    U.S. District Judge Victoria Roberts, a Bill Clinton appointee, dismissed the suit in its entirety and determined the plaintiffs had not alleged an injury that would grant them standing to pursue constitutional claims.
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  6. #33261
    Ultimate Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    Okay, put down your thesaurus and pick up a history book.

    Speaking of conservatives with selective vision, a conservative watchdog group (that's a laugh in an of itself) filed an ethics complaint against AOC for attending the Met Gala. Of course, they said nothing of any of the other members of Congress that attended (there was a least one other- Rep Carolyn Maloney.
    I like AOC but to me it seems kind of pointless to wear a dress that says tax the rich that was designed by a high priced designer at an event where tickets cost more then most of the people she claims to be fighting for make in a year. Bad look.
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  7. #33262
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I like AOC but to me it seems kind of pointless to wear a dress that says tax the rich that was designed by a high priced designer at an event where tickets cost more then most of the people she claims to be fighting for make in a year. Bad look.
    The designer was an immigrant and black woman who she took to the event with her.

  8. #33263
    Ultimate Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    The designer was an immigrant and black woman who she took to the event with her.
    Doesnt matter who the designer was. Maybe not a high priced one like the other mega stars wear. Was still a dumb event for her to be at.

    And no I am not doing the both sides bs so dont yell at me for that lol. And please do not point out all the crap the GOP does whenever some one points out a Dem did something dumb (want to try and cut that off first lol). GOP is worse. This was still a dumb look.
    Last edited by babyblob; 09-15-2021 at 06:32 PM.
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  9. #33264
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    Doesnt matter who the designer was. Maybe not a high priced one like the other mega stars wear. Was still a dumb event for her to be at.

    And no I am not doing the both sides bs so dont yell at me for that lol. And please do not point out all the crap the GOP does whenever some one points out a Dem did something dumb (want to try and cut that off first lol). GOP is worse. This was still a dumb look.
    I think you need to consider that AOC may be better at politics than either of us because she was true to her beliefs, paid nothing, highlighted a marginalized person at a high profile event, and all anyone can talk about is 'tax the rich'. XD

  10. #33265
    Ultimate Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    I think you need to consider that AOC may be better at politics than either of us because she was true to her beliefs, paid nothing, highlighted a marginalized person at a high profile event, and all anyone can talk about is 'tax the rich'. XD
    Okay I will concede that point. Not happy about it becaue i enjoyed being on my high horse for the last ten minutes
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  11. #33266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xheight View Post
    Repubs and Dems have have spent whole campaigns trying to "prove" such prosperity or lack of but such objective final statements are not possible and Three Terms is a as good a measure of regained confidence as any. I would even add that Clinton himself rode out a NeoLiberal economic policy that "ended welfare as we know it it" so let's not ask and I won't tell. I am advocating a better populism no adjective required. Free Market Liberalism seems to work only in small scale economies where large interests can't manipulate the markets hence my advocacy for small and local over national or international. The US may well be a failed concept at this point but muddling along with government hand outs will only add to that assessment.
    The problem with small and local control is that it is far easier to manipulate by outside actors. Well, one of the problems. But large international corporations, criminal cartels, and depending on the region armed militias/warlords have a much easier time imposing their will or corrupting/manipulating a handful of local people in charge (or in some cases just the one) than they do having to contend with the combined interests of 50 states and a large Federal government. History (and the world today) show this to be true. Look at "company towns" of the last few centuries. Even today you have local politicians and judges who side with businesses that bring a lot of money to the community on issues from labor disputes to safety regulations to protecting higher-ups from prosecution of unrelated criminal activity.

    Libertarianism is like communism, in that it only works as intended on paper and completely discounts human actors. Everyone is selfish to some extent, but many are willing to band together to collectively advocate/bargain/manipulate or force their way to a better situation so you don't have "rational self interest" of individuals so much as seeing which group of selfish individuals is going to have the most clout. Or, in other words, the system we have today.

    Sounds good, but we have some quietly crazy local politicians that seem like they'd be more at home in the Deep South. And now Sununu is pushing the abortion issue hard, I don't know if he's trying to appeal to the Republican base for a Senate run but that's not a great call in New Hampshire. There's a lot of right-wing folk but not many deeply religious ones. I think (hope) it'll backfire. And drain the good will he got for not being on the MAGA anti-vaxer train.

  12. #33267
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    I think you need to consider that AOC may be better at politics than either of us because she was true to her beliefs, paid nothing, highlighted a marginalized person at a high profile event, and all anyone can talk about is 'tax the rich'. XD
    For all of the good that it will do "Regular Jane/Joe..." marginalized folks...

    You are both kinda right at the same time here.

  13. #33268
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I like AOC but to me it seems kind of pointless to wear a dress that says tax the rich that was designed by a high priced designer at an event where tickets cost more then most of the people she claims to be fighting for make in a year. Bad look.
    I'm not sure why any member of the government was at the even. In all honesty, I'm not even sure what the Met Gala is for, other than rich people wearing (mostly) stupid looking outfits.

  14. #33269
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    I'm not sure why any member of the government was at the even. In all honesty, I'm not even sure what the Met Gala is for, other than rich people wearing (mostly) stupid looking outfits.
    https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2021/09/1...h-did-it-make/

    The Met Gala, formally named the Costume Institute Gala or the Costume Institute Benefit and also known as the Met Ball, is an annual fundraising gala for a local institute.

    Located in New York City, the event marks the opening of the Costume Institute’s annual fashion exhibit and raises money towards the benefit of the Metropolitan Museum of Art’s Costume Institute in NYC.

    The Institute serves as the museum’s fashion department and is reportedly the only department in the museum that must fund itself
    , meaning the stars offer a lot of help.

  15. #33270
    Invincible Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    30 beat me too it.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

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