1. #33436
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    So the long history of Chinese expansionism consists of annexing Tibet, a couple of skirmishes with India (in which they didn't take any territory) and a war with Vietnam (in which they also didn't take any territory). China basically has the same borders now that it has had since the 1750s, and is actually somewhat smaller now due to the loss of Outer Mongolia and some other marginal territories. By contrast, by 1750 only a handful of Europeans had even visited what was to become Australia, and indeed that term wasn't even coined until much later. But sure, the fact that China said some mean things to Australia and stopped buying their wine makes this the EXACT same as Poland in 1939.
    the main reason I bothered to mention France and Poland is this: France utterly failed Poland when it came to delivering useful weapons in a timely manner when Poland clearly needed them. maybe Australia decided that it didn't want to be put in that situation. it's not a unique scenario.

    any nation that grows in status, power, and ambition will present itself as a potential threat to its neighbors. if a culture becomes sufficiently powerful enough in economic and military terms... they become a global level threat. that's generally how I look at things.

    or, to put it another way, power and wealth lose none of their corrupting power simply because it changes hands from one person/nation-state to another. even Friedrich Engels pointed that out in "On Authority". we can use a different name for the thing... but the nature of the thing does not change. the corrupting nature of ambition and power doesn't disappear when that ambition and power changes hands; or manifests itself in a new time and place.

    I believe that underestimating the threat that China presents to the world is a mistake. I'm not saying that people should panic. I'm not saying that full-scale war is a foregone conclusion. it's just that your complete dismissal of other people's fears concerning China as nothing more than white existential fear is to seriously undersell the scale and nature of the risk. especially since I pointed out to Chinese invasions that were directed to nations that are predominantly non-white. let's quote you, for good measure:

    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    It goes without saying that all of this noise about an imminent Chinese takeover is just white colonists' existential fear that somebody will do to them what they did to the aboriginals, which has manifested through the years with such wonderful ideas such as the "White Australia policy" and the "offshore processing" of prospective migrants, which amounts to basically dumping refugees onto some poor island nation that has far fewer resources to care for them than Australia does.
    so, to be clear, your argument is that since China didn't capture and hold any territory with these numerous border skirmishes that they started... that means that they're not a threat? the fact that they've initiated numerous small-scale invasions of other countries but didn't occupy any territory is now proof that China is harmless?

    it's not uncommon for nations to do trial balloon military actions as preparation for more ambitious, larger, and riskier actions later. Japan did this repeatedly throughout the 20th Century.

    typically nations invade other nations with the intention of capturing territory and holding on to it. since China decided in 1978 that it wasn't worth continued fighting and a negative international response, somehow it means that the invasion attempt towards Vietnam never happened? why did China INVADE Vietnam if they had no intention of occupying that territory?

    I thought you might counter with "to punish Vietnam for their occupation of Cambodia..." but, since you didn't do that, perhaps Chinese territorial ambitions were so brazen in this scenario even that excuse would seem totally unconvincing.

    here's a map summarizing the Chinese invasion of northern Vietnam. even the lowest estimates place the Chinese 'expeditionary force' as having at least 200,000 soldiers and several hundred tanks. but none of that matters because they didn't occupy any territory and the borders never officially changed!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totoro Man View Post
    the main reason I bothered to mention France and Poland is this: France utterly failed Poland when it came to delivering useful weapons in a timely manner when Poland clearly needed them. maybe Australia decided that it didn't want to be put in that situation. it's not a unique scenario.

    any nation that grows in status, power, and ambition will present itself as a potential threat to its neighbors. if a culture becomes sufficiently powerful enough in economic and military terms... they become a global level threat. that's generally how I look at things.

    or, to put it another way, power and wealth lose none of their corrupting power simply because it changes hands from one person/nation-state to another. even Friedrich Engels pointed that out in "On Authority". we can use a different name for the thing... but the nature of the thing does not change. the corrupting nature of ambition and power doesn't disappear when that ambition and power changes hands; or manifests itself in a new time and place.

    I believe that underestimating the threat that China presents to the world is a mistake. I'm not saying that people should panic. I'm not saying that full-scale war is a foregone conclusion. it's just that your complete dismissal of other people's fears concerning China as nothing more than white existential fear is to seriously undersell the scale and nature of the risk. especially since I pointed out to Chinese invasions that were directed to nations that are predominantly non-white. let's quote you, for good measure:



    so, to be clear, your argument is that since China didn't capture and hold any territory with these numerous border skirmishes that they started... that means that they're not a threat? the fact that they've initiated numerous small-scale invasions of other countries but didn't occupy any territory is now proof that China is harmless?

    it's not uncommon for nations to do trial balloon military actions as preparation for more ambitious, larger, and riskier actions later. Japan did this repeatedly throughout the 20th Century.

    typically nations invade other nations with the intention of capturing territory and holding on to it. since China decided in 1978 that it wasn't worth continued fighting and a negative international response, somehow it means that the invasion attempt towards Vietnam never happened? why did China INVADE Vietnam if they had no intention of occupying that territory?

    I thought you might counter with "to punish Vietnam for their occupation of Cambodia..." but, since you didn't do that, perhaps Chinese territorial ambitions were so brazen in this scenario even that excuse would seem totally unconvincing.

    here's a map summarizing the Chinese invasion of northern Vietnam. even the lowest estimates place the Chinese 'expeditionary force' as having at least 200,000 soldiers and several hundred tanks. but none of that matters because they didn't occupy any territory and the borders never officially changed!
    There is absolutely no indication that the Chinese attacked Vietnam with the intention of permanently annexing any territory. This is most obvious when you look at how the war progressed - the minute that the Chinese forces realized they were facing stiffer resistance than they anticipated, they called off the invasion and withdrew. If this had been some glorious war of conquest to liberate the long lost daughter of the motherland or whatever, they would certainly have kept funneling more troops, materiel, and cash into the endeavor turning it a prolonged quagmire similar to what America faced over there.

    More to the point, this was the last war that China participated in which means that, rather uniquely amongst "militaristic expansionist empires" they have practically nobody in the armed forces who has live combat experience. The war was a wakeup call to the Chinese leadership, who realized that their tactics were outdated and ineffective even against an opponent that was severely outmatched on paper, and it made them very cautious about trying to settle disputes with military action, which you know, is a GOOD thing, right?

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    If only more countries could be like China. Peace in our time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    If only more countries could be like China. Peace in our time.
    You do realize that, when people use that quote, they are advocating for war as a more humanitarian alternative to continued appeasement. Is that what you're advocating?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    You do realize that, when people use that quote, they are advocating for war as a more humanitarian alternative to continued appeasement. Is that what you're advocating?
    Chamberlin is the poster child for appeasement.

    But I was being ironic, did you realize that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Chamberlin is the poster child for appeasement.

    But I was being ironic, did you realize that?
    Christ. You were citing Chamberlain "ironically," implying that you thought he was WRONG and should have gone to war instead of appeasing the Nazis. And by extension, negotiating with China will produce the same result and is therefore useless, so the only solution is to do what?

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    It's good to see our resident apologist is hard at work. Remember, kids, it's only imperialism if the west does it.
    Last edited by Tendrin; 09-18-2021 at 08:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    It's good to see our resident apologist is hard at work.
    Eh, I had a rough week, need to vent somehow. Besides, earning them Xi bucks is a full time job you know.

    In any event, these recent developments have nothing to do with what China has or hasn't done, and everything to do with America's incoherent strategy. Essentially, Trump stirred up this current cold war with China to whip up his base, which Biden has inherited and mostly continued, even though his heart clearly isn't in it, because foreign policy is the one thing that both parties always seem to agree on and it would be disastrous for him domestically to be seen as weak on China. But it's pretty hard to see him making any kind of solid commitment to Australia when he couldn't even remember their Prime Minister's name.

    Also, opponents of the Trump administration constantly pushed the notion that he was doing the right thing by confronting China but going about it the wrong way by not forming a united front and going it alone. But as this submarine episode shows, making alliances isn't quite so easy, because all countries have their own national interests and getting everyone on the same page takes a bit more work than making trite appeals to "shared Western values" or whatever. Still though, the Chinese are right to be terrified of this AUKUS alliance, between them the UK, US, and Australia have exterminated enough peoples to fill many, many books.
    Last edited by PwrdOn; 09-18-2021 at 09:03 PM.

  9. #33444
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    Eh, I had a rough week, need to vent somehow. Besides, earning them Xi bucks is a full time job you know.

    In any event, these recent developments have nothing to do with what China has or hasn't done, and everything to do with America's incoherent strategy. Essentially, Trump stirred up this current cold war with China to whip up his base, which Biden has inherited and mostly continued, even though his heart clearly isn't in it, because foreign policy is the one thing that both parties always seem to agree on and it would be disastrous for him domestically to be seen as weak on China. But it's pretty hard to see him making any kind of solid commitment to Australia when he couldn't even remember their Prime Minister's name.

    Also, opponents of the Trump administration constantly pushed the notion that he was doing the right thing by confronting China but going about it the wrong way by not forming a united front and going it alone. But as this submarine episode shows, making alliances isn't quite so easy, because all countries have their own national interests and getting everyone on the same page takes a bit more work than making trite appeals to "shared Western values" or whatever. Still though, the Chinese are right to be terrified of this AUKUS alliance, between them the UK, US, and Australia have exterminated enough peoples to fill many, many books.
    Trump is all about doing things the easy, lazy, way, no matter how screwed up it becomes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    This whole submarine debacle just goes to show that, as far as the military industrial complex is concerned, war is just a silly game and the REAL battle is scheming and backstabbing your allies to make sure that the dough keeps rolling in.
    Of course, selling arms is massively important to US,UK, and France.

    I can easily understand why France is angry at losing such a big contract…but realistically they ought to understand why Australia was dis-satisfied with their performance on this particular contract.

    And losing commercial contacts to their main rivals is not really “back stabbing”. (They describe in other terms themselves when they win a contact from UK of US!)

    Often French “outrage” is a sham, a tactic they believe gives them leverage.

  11. #33446
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    I hope China's Communist Party is scared of the AUKUS alliance, but I seriously doubt it.
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    Gonna post a double-shot of CSGOPOTD, had a migraine and slept through almost all of yesterday trying to be rid of it.


    On this date in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, as well as 2019, "Crazy/Stupid Republican of the Day" published profiles of the U.S. House Representative from California’s 48th Congressional District, Dana Rohrabacher, a man who seemingly has yet to read a conspiracy theory he doesn’t like. Amongst his favorites are the theories that the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995 was carried out by Muslims, and not domestic terrorists Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols, that RFK actually had multiple assassins and not just Sirhan Sirhan trying to kill him (Rohrbacher is believed to have visited Sirhan in prison disguised in drag to ask him about it), that Google was using their search engine to hide “the truth” presented in Dinesh D’Souza’s documentaries, and that President Obama left Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other men to die in Benghazi purposefully during the attacks to help guarantee he’d win the 2012 elections (because that’s the sort of thing that wins votes?). On top of that, Rohrabacher is a renowned figure who stands against the theory of man-made climate change, instead blaming the phenomenon on “dinosaur flatulence”, and welcomed the impending 2013 Government Shutdown by going on CNN while believed to be gleefully drunk from celebrating the failure of his party to compromise and, y’know, govern. Can you think of anything that’s a worse look for a political party anywhere in the world than looking on the bright side of an ISIS terror attack? Because on June 10th, 2017, Rohrabacher, on video, is shown talking about how it was “a good thing” that the Islamic State carried out a terror attack on the Iranian parliament in Tehran, and that maybe the United States should consider working WITH them. He didn’t exactly back off of these remarks, either, releasing a statement where he claimed ISIS was “no better” than the Iranian regime. Days later, Rohrabacher, somehow a member of the House Science Space and Technology Committee, was listening to testimony from NASA scientist Kevin Farley regarding Mars, and he took the time to ask if there was a possibility of ancient civilizations having existed on Mars. Rohrabacher also managed to get some attention when video of him emerged from February 2018, being interviewed by Voice of America China, in what was supposed to be a message to the audience about our government acknowledging Chinese New Year. And, lo and behold, Dana Rohrabacher is enough of an insane, racist idjit that he started talking about how he believes the racist trope about Chinese people eat dogs. His love of those conspiracy theories, idiocy on science, and that he speaks glowingly of Vladimir Putin going back to when they hung out in a pub in Russia and were arm-wrestling back in the 1990s, and it came up in the news a few times lately as it was noted that Donald Trump also seemed to have a weird crush on the Russian dictator, and that the 2016 Trump campaign worked in tandem with Russia to interfere in our elections. In fact, as Congress began to learn that Russia was meddling in the first place, audio leaked of a private meeting where among others, House Speaker Paul Ryan and House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy were present, and the latter actually volunteered his belief to the group that “There’s two people I think Putin pays, Rohrabacher and Trump. Swear to God.” The room then burst into laughter, before Paul Ryan asks everyone to keep the topic being discussed on the mum and to keep the chat within the family (which people listened to him for less than a year). Many people would shrug this off as just a bunch of “joking” among Republicans, but really, Dana Rohrabacher spent most of the summer of 2017 demonstrating how much of a loose cannon that’s going to be a liability for the GOP. How much so? Strap yourselves in, s*** is about to get real enough that you'll ask yourself how this can be real life. Immediately after the joint press conference between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin in Helsinki, Dana Rohrabacher was one of the first people to come running to Donald Trump’s defense, and contradict the American intelligence community to claim that the Russians never hacked the 2016 election. Just to be consistent, a few days after that interview, Rohrabacher was ferociously criticizing the indictment of Maria Butina, the Russian spy caught trying to help her country, on behalf of Russian oligarchs, infiltrate the NRA and the Republican Party (and who did so rather easily). Perhaps that has something to do with the fact that Rohrabacher actually met with Butina in 2015. Rohrabacher has also been left scrambling to cover his links to Russia in the 2016 election, including having to pay back donations his charity had received from a guy you may have heard of for being a Russian pawn named Paul Manafort. Not even a month would go by before Rohrabacher was at it again, taking to the floor of the House to defend Donald Trump Jr. for having a meeting at Trump Tower with Russian spies who were promising him information damaging to Hillary Clinton as part of Vladimir Putin’s plan to see Donald Trump elected president, claiming that “it’s not illegal to receive information from someone.” Making Rohrabacher look even more insane than he is, speaking to an empty chamber, is the fact he was then followed at this idiotic GOP Open Mic Night by both Louis Gohmert and Steve King, who also voiced defenses of Trump, Jr., before having the topic wander into a discussion of blocking payment for medical treatments for transgendered members of our military.Rohrabacher still wasn’t done. For whatever reason, he took it upon himself to fly to London in August 2017, and meet with Julian Assange, from Wikileaks. Because Rohrabacher is claiming that Assange has new revelations about the Russians’ DNC hack, and that he wants to set up a “rendezvous” between the international criminal and Donald Trump. Meanwhile, the FBI are investigating election hacking right damned now from the 2018 election, where Hans Keirstead the third-place finisher to Rohrabacher and his main challenger, Harley Rouda, lost out on the top-two primary by only 125 votes. And Keirstead was the victim of cyberattacks, supposedly orchestrated by who else… Russia. In September of 2017, Rohrabacher began calling for the House Intelligence Committee to host hearings on “the Clinton/Russia connection”. Dana Rohrabacher was, against all reason, insisting that the real story that everyone is missing is that Russia was working through the Clinton Foundation to help Hillary win the election by hacking her own party, and releasing as much damaging information as they could online about her. Dana Rohrabacher also gave a bats*** interview to the San Francisco Chronicle where, as he made peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, proceeded to explain how the events that unfolded in Charlottesville, Virginia and the terror attack carried out by a white supremacist there were actually a false flag operation set up by liberals and Democrats who are loyal to Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders. Rohrabacher also provided some unintentional entertainment in July 2018, as he was featured as one of a group of Republicans who were duped by comedian Sascha Baren Cohen to be recorded advocating for a promotional campaign to sell firearms to toddlers. Now, one of the things we’ve been keeping track of in our updates on members of Congress is how their town halls have gone in 2017. Interesting thing about Dana Rohrabacher… he’s decided to not host one. Well, maybe that would just look cowardly, but when you see reports that Rohrabacher accused constituents showing up at his office in his district asking him to host one of “political thuggery, pure and simple”, and labelling them “enemies of democracy”: His relationship with his constituents has devolved to the point where, quite literally, Rep. Rohrabacher has called the police on activists for daring to call his office and ask him questions. There was also the moment in May of 2018 where Rohrabacher argued in favor of housing discrimination against the LGBTQ community, losing endorsements from the National Association of Realtors, who weren’t down with that homophobic bulls***. Harley Rouda mercifully put an end to Dana Rohrabacher’s madness as a part of the 2018 Blue Wave. After decades of supporting the legalization of marijuana, Rohrabacher has moved on to become a board member of BudTrader, referred to as “the Craiglist of weed”, and was spotted on camera among the Trump-supporting rioters who attacked his former workplace of the Capitol on Jan. 6th, 2021.
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    On this date one year ago, “Crazy/Stupid Republican of the Day” first profiled Marjorie Taylor Greene, who we were already regretting was about to become the next U.S. House Representative from Georgia’s 14th Congressional District when we profiled her after her Democratic opponent in her traditionally conservative-leaning district, Kevin Van Ausdal, suddenly dropped out of the race on September 11th, 2020. There was already discussion prior to that if Greene, a self-funded construction company owner, should be seated as a member of Congress, as her rhetoric is… frankly, the hyperbolic fever dreams of a conspiracy theorist. Greene is die-hard fan of Donald Trump and has built her political brand over the last few years on bigoted anti-immigrant, Islamophobic, and anti-transgender policy support. She does not have a “chill” setting, having already created a White House petition to impeach Nancy Pelosi (you don’t impeach members of the House) for “treason”, which is, of course, a capitol offense (and one Pelosi certainly hasn’t committed), and there was video that would emerge of her accompanying noteworthy domestic terrorist Anthony Aguero on a trip to Washington, D.C. to bang on the door of Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s office to make veiled threats upon her and her staff in 2019.

    Greene has posed in photos with Chester Doles, a white supremacist who served a prison sentence for assaulting a black man nearly to death because he saw him in the company of a white woman and who was at one point the leader of the Ku Klux Klan. Greene has dismissed any outrage over the photos as “silly” and “fake news”, but it seems to be quite indicative of a very racist woman. Greene has, without much prompting, posted videos online where she has conflated the Black Lives Matter unit to the Ku Klux Klan members and Neo-Nazis who marched in Charlottesville, and has voiced her thoughts that African Americans “are held slaves to the Democratic Party”, said she would feel “proud” to see a Confederate monument if she were black because it symbolizes progress made since the Civil War, and believes that “The most mistreated group of people in the United States today are white males”, while black women have it far easier because of affirmative action.

    In one of her video rants, Greene says that unemployment — which affects people of color at disproportionately higher rates — is simply the product of “bad choices” and being “lazy”, adding her opinion that African Americans are being held back in society by gangs, drugs, a lack of education, Planned Parenthood and abortions but “not white people.”
    Greene described Islamic nations under Sharia law as places where men have sex with "little boys, little girls, multiple women" and "marry their sisters" and "their cousins." After the 2018 midterms saws the most diverse class of House freshmen, she deemed it “an Islamic invasion of our government” and that “anyone that is a Muslim that believes in Sharia law does not belong in our government.” She had a video at the time where she referred to Congresswoman Ilhan Omar as "that woman out of Minnesota who has got to wear a head covering," adding that members of Congress should not be able to take the oath of office on a Koran and "You have to be sworn in on the Bible." Without any irony, she also says “Muslims aren’t held back in any way because the Constitution guarantees equality”, while making the previous argument.


    It’s one thing to be a QAnon conspiracy theorist, which Marjorie Taylor Greene is, but it’s another to be able to tie her palling around with a Klan leader as something you’d expect from a woman who in 2018 shared her quite anti-Semitic belief that the secret sex cult that is harvesting hormones to keep themselves young from children they murder was in fact, being run by George Soros and the Rothschilds. Oh, and she also pushes the false conservative narrative that George Soros worked WITH the Nazis, which is flat out disgusting.

    She’s also got some gun-related conspiracy theories, furthering one that the Las Vegas shooting massacre was a “false flag” plot to abolish the Second Amendment while and saying the same about the Parkland shooting while calling one of the student activists from Parkland High School who survived the attack “little Hitler. (Speaking of, here’s video of her stalking David Hogg in person.)

    But perhaps her love of guns is expressed in more than just conspiracy theories, as only a few weeks ago, she posted a campaign fundraising photo of herself online where she was brandishing an assault rifle with the superimposed images of Congresswomen Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib, and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez while dubbing herself “The Squad’s Worst Nightmare”. The ad was offensive enough that even Facebook deleted it as a threat. Which, of course, Greene whined about as if she was the victim for not being allowed to wish gunning down her potential (and likely) future colleagues on the internet, and played dumb about what was clearly incitement to violence.

    There’s levels of bats*** crazy we’ve covered, but then there’s paranoid conspiracy theories on the level of “The Rothschilds started California wildfires with Jewish space lasers” levels of f***ing insane. And that’s where Marjorie dwells. Or being openly violent enough to talk about executing Nancy Pelosi by putting a bullet in her head.
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    That’s what could be said about her BEFORE she took office. She has not adapted a more responsible approach to politics, and her rhetoric has only gotten more hyperbolic, paranoid, and extreme since we discussed her a year ago:

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    Look, maybe… just maybe the fact that we already have the above laundry list of things to report on Marjorie Taylor-Greene is enough proof that she needs to have opponents in both the primary, and general election in 2022… because she is truly a deliberately toxic presence in American politics, and the sooner she’s removed from the equation at the ballot box or justifiably expelled from the building, the better.
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