All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Jack Dracula]

I was talking to a couple of Conservatives at work today. Note: Never get into politics at work though it didn't get bad or anything. But the gist was that Biden is an economic disaster, that trading is in the red across the board and that it's because of his environmental policies costing tens of thousands of jobs and billions of dollars.

My counter was that not dealing with these environmental problems is already costing billions per year from increased natural disasters not even getting into the loss of life and that it's getting worse the more we pretend it isn't happening or that it will just go away of we ignore it. Also that not dealing with the reality of fossil fuels as a finite resource is going to be more costly in the long run.

That's when someone pulled out their phone, quoted the thing about trade going red and said, "And that's not anecdotal evidence. It's factual."

At that point, I knew it was pointless not that I didn't already know.

P.S. Trump's grab 'em by the ***** was just locker room talk and every guy has done it. Yeah, maybe, at 12-18 years old or 22 if in college. How many people are still doing it at 70 with grown children and grand-children?

At my current job, I decided to identify as a conservative when asked. Now they let their guard down and I talk to them about how disappointed I am with Trump and how much he lies and his tax cheating, the pending lawsuits regarding his charity and does anyone really know who owns his $400,000,000.00 in debt? It's fun.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Not in 1987 he didn't. In fact not until 2016 either. Until Trump ran for President and won, he wasn't a super influential guy.

You don't have to be president or a billionaire to be useful for a foreign spy agency.

Political campaigns are about talking a big game, governing is about playing the big game.

Campaign Obama was not the same as Pres-Elect Obama, which is why so many on the left still feel look at Obama as a bitter s--ty ex-boyfriend. Rest assured, had it come to pass, Pres-Elect Bernie would strike a different pose.[/quote]

Campaign Obama is nothing like Campaign Bernie, at no point was Obama saying things like Bernie was in that tweet. Bernie's incredibly bad at this part of the political game. That's not asking a big game that's encouraging conspiracy theories about rigging elections and demotivating people from particiapte in politics because of cynicism in order to get rewarded short term in voting. Trump was doing the exact same thing on his side, that's not a norm in politics.

The left who did that would turn on President Bernie, as well. They don't understand politics, and don't have any drive to. They're not interested in governing.

As far as the media goes, there's the fact that Obama had an alternative to Fox and mainstream news in terms of the internet activist setup he had built that propelled him to power. On taking office, he basically shuttered it at the command of the DNC, and shut out the activist set that brought him to office, underrating the strength and persistence of that energy as an ally and partner in government.
https://newrepublic.com/article/1402...sroots-machine
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...mocratic-party

That's not an actual alternative to Fox Ness, Fox News is a news network not a place to organise activists. I agree he shouldn't have shut that down but that's nothing to do with what I was saying. The DNC has power, it sucks but they're Democrats. They know how to share power. The same activists who turned on him when being president required more compromise than they thought and took more and more power away when he needed it like in congress and they never learn why this was a bad idea.

AOC and others have long seen Obama's mistake of basically breaking up the activist wing as ceding battle ground to the Tea Party and ultimately Trump and others. He won the Social Media game but rather than keep it going and use it as his very own "Fireside Chats" he decided on appeasing the GOP and center to be "presidential" rather than actually using his bully pulpit. It was a weird kind of abdication. FDR absolutely would have used social media to talk up the benefits of the New Deal and Social Security had he had it. He used radio in a similar way.

Obama used the bully pulpit regularly as president, that's how its' supposed to work. The activist wing can't be broken like that, they'll always exist in some capacity outside political parties. The Tea party weren't something Obama could just shrug off like nothing, especially in the senate. The right wing are incredibly string as a group in politics, both inside and outside congress. Obama was in fact quite known for being up to date with technology and media as president - he just wasn't Trump.

A bad economy was the hand that FDR got dealt to him by Hoover, and he used that to gamble big and put in real social programs that despite controversy and pushback became bonanza for the Dems in midterms and beyond. Look...obviously hindsight is what it is. And it's easy to talk about what could have been now than in the moment. I get all that, but there were still actionable decisions made by Obama and the Dems, and Senate Dems, that can be taken to task and held to the world for all to see and ponder and shake their heads.

Hindsight is great when it pays off, but would you be kind to Obama had he did that and failed? That's dabatable. Ys, it is easy to talk when you're not the one who gets the responsibility when things fail which will impact millions of lives. Things which are harder to brush off as a Democrat. That being an option doesn't prove that was the right choice. Senate Dems are a whole seperate thing because its congress, just being president won't mean it's an instant win. The senate is where many good bills went to die.

[Jack Dracula]

Remarkably, we once again agree. Great Intelligence Victories are usually accidents. That doesn't mean Trump didn't get played like a Steinway by Putin, nor does it dismiss the prospects of Trump being a dupe. But this notion of some omniscient Russian puppet-master-machine positioning an agent is next door to QAnon logic. It's those of us screaming "how the ****?" assigning causation to correlation.

Putin got lucky. Full Stop.

Trump had been courting Putin for a few years prior to his announcing his intention to run, in fact, it's documented he was still negotiating a deal to establish hotels in Moscow while campaigning. Putin couldn't have asked for a better ally in the White House.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Hindsight is great when it pays off, but would you be kind to Obama had he did that and failed?

1) I am plenty kind to Obama as it is.

2) Yeah, people would be kinder to Obama had he been more aggressive and failed.

I mean the whole point about an incremental approach to political change is that it lowers and cools the temperature, and insulates against a backlash, it avoids rocking the boat and it becomes a problem when liberalism fails in its prophecy about its ideas and sense of values. Ultimately, Obama's incrementalism in power failed to protect anyone from the Tea Party, and failed to protect HRC from Trump.

[DrNewGod]

At my current job, I decided to identify as a conservative when asked. Now they let their guard down and I talk to them about how disappointed I am with Trump and how much he lies and his tax cheating, the pending lawsuits regarding his charity and does anyone really know who owns his $400,000,000.00 in debt? It's fun.

Be careful Mi Amigo. These folks are gettin' mean.

[Wildling]

Be careful Mi Amigo. These folks are gettin' mean.

I'm all for avoiding a mean conversation to get through any day.

Just make sure to not go too far in the other normalizing direction, and wake up to the new normal where appeasing to modern conservatism isn't going to make its risk go away, any more than thinking a drunk driver couldn't possibly kill you even if you always obey the green light yourself.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Ohio Republicans want to declare June 14th 'President Donald J. Trump Day'

Jesus! The slurping was strong with those bootlickers.

[JackDaw]

Was disappointed that the Biden administration is taking the same line on the Harry Dunn/ Anne Sacoolas case as the preceding Trump administration.

(Harry died on UK road when hit by a car driven by Mrs Sacoolas on the wrong side of the road. She...for a very brief period pledged to co-operate with the police investigation, but next day went back to US...and refuses to come back to face charges citing “diplomatic immunity”. )

There is some genuine doubt whether Mrs Sacoolas qualifies for “diplomatic immunity”....and it really wasn’t created to give carte blanche to create mayhem on the roads.

Have to say it typifies in many eyes the moral behaviour of American embassy officials abroad...diplomatic immunity is oft used by American Embassy staff for stuff like avoiding parking fines, while embassy staff from other countries tend to pay them.

[Steel Inquisitor]

1) I am plenty kind to Obama as it is.

But you assume just because he didn't make the same choices you want he would have succeeded, when politics is much riskier. I don't think you'd be as kind to Obama if he made riskier choices and lost as if Bernie did.

2) Yeah, people would be kinder to Obama had he been more aggressive and failed.

No, they wouldn't. He still gets piled on by the left for not using his god-like powers to shut down Gitmo, despite the fact he tried and congress stopped him since he needs congress to approve that. And that's just one thing the left blames him for, Obama isn't perfect and he made numerous horrible decisions, like the drones, but the left does not care about governing as much as they think they do. I think you do, but you're not every leftist.

I mean the whole point about an incremental approach to political change is that it lowers and cools the temperature, and insulates against a backlash, it avoids rocking the boat and it becomes a problem when liberalism fails in its prophecy about its ideas and sense of values. Ultimately, Obama's incrementalism in power failed to protect anyone from the Tea Party, and failed to protect HRC from Trump.

That's not the whole story about why politicians use incrementalism, the system is made to do this by its very structure - the last politician who tried to do what your asking is Trump and the system was able to curb his destruction by this very fact and it's much ease too destroy then create then what a leftist candidate would in his place. Bernie would not get as far by trying to make sweeping changes - he needs congress for that and if he started getting out of control like Trump the Democrats would fight back and impeach him. Obama wanted drastically to do more sweeping changes except he was curbed by congress, this is why he relied so much on executive orders he didn't do that because it was his first choice. She lost to Trump more because of Russian interference and Comey than incrementalism.

Any ideology fails when voters give congress away because they're disappointed by their president. Democrats ran away from Obama but they're not going to do that when Bernie makes noises they don't like? The president relies on congress to pass things, the more votes they have in congress the easier it is to pass things and the left gave up on Obama real quick making that happen. Voting has consequences.

[Iron Maiden]

Trump had been courting Putin for a few years prior to his announcing his intention to run, in fact, it's documented he was still negotiating a deal to establish hotels in Moscow while campaigning. Putin couldn't have asked for a better ally in the White House.

true....and that is where the infamous "pee tape" story originated. He was desperately trying to set up a meeting with Putin at the time when Trump owned the Miss Universe pageant which was held in Moscow in 2013. He even tweeted about it " Do you think Putin will be going to The Miss Universe Pageant in November in Moscow - if so, will he become my new best friend?" This parallels his attempt to court Kim Jong-Un during his presidency. Both of them played him for a fool. There were overtures to get some projects going in Russia as far back as the 1980s.

There were Russians who purchased condos in Trump Tower, which was allegedly part of a money laundering scheme.

Then there was the sale of a south Florida estate to Dmitry Rybolovlev, known as the Fertilizer King in Russian back in 2008. Trump bought it at a bankruptcy sale for 40 million and then put it on the market for $125 million, finally selling it to the Russian billionaire for $100 million. He never lived it in and the house was a tear down. There were also a series of incidents where Rybolovlev was in close proximity to Trump or someone working with the Trump campaign There was some speculation that Putin was in on the sale also. I wouldn't be surprised if once the Southern District of NY gets going there may be some investigations tied to Trump's business dealings with Russians and possible money laundering.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

FBI: Pipe Bombs At RNC, DNC Were Planted Night Before Capitol Riot

It is not clear whether that means the pipe bombs were unrelated to the next day’s riot or were part of the riot planning. Plain and simple, that was scary.

**********

Rep. Cori Bush Moving Office For ‘Safety’ After Ugly Run-In With Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene

A maskless Greene and her staff “berated me in a hallway,” Bush tweeted. “I’m moving my office away from hers for my team’s safety.” Something needs to be done about getting rid of Greene who's a straight up psychotic. Case in point:

Marjorie Taylor Greene’s History Of Bigoted, Conspiratorial Views Laid Bare In 60 Seconds

Meanwhile....

Jimmy Gomez Needs 70 Republicans To Expel Marjorie Taylor Greene

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Horned Viking ‘Shaman’ Who Stormed Capitol Now Willing To Testify Against Trump

Jacob Chansley, who was “smitten” with Trump, believes he was following the former president’s orders when he stormed the Capitol, according to his attorney. I stand a better chance of having a one night stand with Beyonce that we have of seeing this nutbag called to testify about the riot. Republicans will fight that tooth and nail.

**********

Lifelong Republican Donor Quits GOP: ‘Absolutely’ Now The Party Of QAnon

“If you stay in the Republican Party, you have to pay homage to Trump and I don’t do that. I don’t pray to any man,” said Houston immigration lawyer Jacob Monty. More GOP donors need to follow Monty's example. Starve the Party of Trump to death.

**********

Woman Arrested After FBI Says She Boasted On Selfie She Wanted To Shoot Nancy Pelosi

“We broke into the Capitol,” said a selfie confiscated by the FBI. “We were looking for Nancy to shoot her in the friggin’ brain, but we didn’t find her.” But, the FBI found YOU, bitch!

**********

U.S. ‘Anti-Science’ Movement Sacrificed ‘Tens Of Thousands’ Of Lives To COVID: Medical Expert

The needless toll was triggered by an “active and unabashed anti-science disinformation initiative” by the Trump White House, writes Dr. Peter Hotez.

[worstblogever]

On this date in 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, as well as 2020, “Crazy/Stupid Republican of the Day posted profiles of Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine, who once voted for the impeachment of Bill Clinton, supported Personhood amendments on abortion, and tried advocating for failed Supreme Court nominee Harriet Miers by saying her lack of judicial experience would "add to the diversity of the Supreme Court". Since being booted from Washington, D.C. in 2006 and becoming the Attorney General of Ohio, DeWine has spent the time trying to use the power of his office on a partisan quest to disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of voters in Ohio with strict Voter ID measures, and then had the nerve to publicly accuse the Obama administration of "trying to suppress the military vote" during the 2012 elections (without any facts to back that up). That's hardly the end of his conservative endeavors in that role, as he also sued the federal government over the Affordable Care Act, led a witch hunt against Ohio Planned Parenthood clinics after the fraudulent “sting” video was released by the Center for Medical Progress (DeWine also falsely accused Planned Parenthood of dumping fetal tissue in landfills without any proof to back up his claim), and filed every legal brief he could to try and prevent the implementation of same sex marriage in Ohio, per Supreme Court rulings. Lastly, and most heinously, DeWine refused to press any charges against any of the teenagers involved in the Steubenville Rape Case, and only pressed charges against adults covering it up after months of public outcry. Remember, Mark DeWine's one job is to prosecute people who break the law in Ohio.

We were actually looking forward to one thing about the next two years… we thought that when Mike DeWine went up against term limits in 2018, that he would figure he was over 70, and call it a career. However, as it turns out, he’s ran for Governor of Ohio to replace John Kasich, who also was term-limited. DeWine continues to promise he will combat the opioid epidemic in his state, while having done nothing yet about it, and offering no details on how he’ll take care of it either, short of educating KINDERGARTENERS about painkiller abuse (Note: That’s not the age demographic abusing this drug, Mike.) DeWine had enough rich donors pump dark money into his coffers to pull out a narrow win with 50.7% of the vote. Now sworn in, we’re expecting DeWine to somehow make John Kasich’s hard-right socially conservative agenda and make it seem like he is George Clooney in comparison.

The honeymoon did not last long, as after several mass shootings across the country in 2019, one in Dayton, Ohio, that left 27 dead in but minutes, DeWine had constituents literally screaming, “DO SOMETHING!” at him.

Alas, he did not get anything done, because they didn’t elect a man who holds their interests at heart, only his own, and the wealthiest people exploiting his state.

But what he can get done? Oh, you bet he signed a fetal heartbeat anti-choice bill the minute it hit his desk in April 2019, to deny women abortions as early at six weeks, before many even realize they’re pregnant.

Now, here’s the thing about 2020… in a few instances, there were members of the Republican Party who responded to the threat of Covid-19 like rational, sane adults, and wanted to take precautions. Closing non-essential businesses, calling upon the public to voluntarily wear masks, or even mandate that it is necessary. And Gov. DeWine actually was one of those Republicans. This, of course, means that his own party is currently trying to impeach him for doing the smart thing. And of course, the truly insane right-wing crowd were plotting to kidnap him like they were up north in Michigan, where they wanted to kidnap Gretchen Whitmer.


Let this just serve as a bellwether for how insane the GOP has become as a whole… an extremist like Mike DeWine is now too “moderate” for the fringe of his party, because he took even the simplest of measures to listen to scientists and take measures to save lives. Just… wow.

[Mister Mets]

But you assume just because he didn't make the same choices you want he would have succeeded, when politics is much riskier. I don't think you'd be as kind to Obama if he made riskier choices and lost as if Bernie did.



No, they wouldn't. He still gets piled on by the left for not using his god-like powers to shut down Gitmo, despite the fact he tried and congress stopped him since he needs congress to approve that. And that's just one thing the left blames him for, Obama isn't perfect and he made numerous horrible decisions, like the drones, but the left does not care about governing as much as they think they do. I think you do, but you're not every leftist.



That's not the whole story about why politicians use incrementalism, the system is made to do this by its very structure - the last politician who tried to do what your asking is Trump and the system was able to curb his destruction by this very fact and it's much ease too destroy then create then what a leftist candidate would in his place. Bernie would not get as far by trying to make sweeping changes - he needs congress for that and if he started getting out of control like Trump the Democrats would fight back and impeach him. Obama wanted drastically to do more sweeping changes except he was curbed by congress, this is why he relied so much on executive orders he didn't do that because it was his first choice. She lost to Trump more because of Russian interference and Comey than incrementalism.

Any ideology fails when voters give congress away because they're disappointed by their president. Democrats ran away from Obama but they're not going to do that when Bernie makes noises they don't like? The president relies on congress to pass things, the more votes they have in congress the easier it is to pass things and the left gave up on Obama real quick making that happen. Voting has consequences.

One of the subtexts of the argument for electing Bernie Sanders was that members of Congress would recognize that a party that can nominate Bernie Sanders, and a country that would elect him, is much more progressive than they assumed, and would act accordingly. Bernie supporters didn't really consider how a President Sanders would operate with narrow Democratic majorities in the House and Senate; they took it for granted that his coattails would result in comfortable margins and a mandate that that self-interested politicians would recognize.

I listen regularly to the Left, Right and Center podcast. For a while, the left was represented by Elizabeth Bruenig, who was a Bernie supporter. Her final episode was after Biden started winning the primaries, and she seemed really deflated, because she recognized that Democratic voters widely preferred Biden to Sanders, which meant there wasn't the pressure to make Congress as progressive as she wanted.

[Tendrin]

The Bruenigs themselves are only representative of a narrow slice of class reductionist, white leftism generally, anyway.

[Tami]

Senate Republicans say Trump should be held accountable for riot -- but not by them

Senate Republicans want their cake but they don't want the mess. Let someone else deal with this.

(CNN)To Senate Minority Whip John Thune, former President Donald Trump's actions ahead of the deadly Capitol riot are totally indefensible.

"No -- not at all," the No. 2 Republican said when asked if he can defend what Trump did. "The way he handled the post-election, both in terms of his public statements and things that he tried to do to change the outcome, no."

But like other Republicans, Thune has no clear answer to this key question: What should they do to Trump after he lied to his supporters about the election being stolen, promoted the January 6 rally in DC and urged demonstrators to go to the Capitol, which they later rampaged in a deadly riot?

"Well, that's a good question," said Thune, who faces reelection in South Dakota next year. "One way, obviously, would be in a court of law."