All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Mister Mets]

Israel shows Hamas bodycam attack footage to journalists



They should show this to all the people protesting and shouting only about the Israel army's crimes.

That is horrific.

It is something Israel's critics should reckon with. They're not calling out the monsters who did this, but the response.

Sounds like this guy thinks that Israel has a valid case for genocide. I mean, heck - if they just kill ALL Palestinians, that will take care of the whole Hamas problem, wouldn't it? I wonder how many civilian casualties he considers "excessive as compared to the value of the military objective"? Is that up to those doing the killing to decide? I also can't believe that he's actually making the argument that Israel can just keep on killing innocents until Hamas surrenders! Sounds like the villain in every hostage movie that I've ever seen. One might argue that they have the right to carpet bomb civilian populations, killing hundreds of women and children in the process in order to destroy those that are guilty of attacking Israel, but has anybody considered that in doing so they are also radicalizing the next generation of terrorists?

This whole debate as to whether or not Israel's actions are "as bad as" Hamas is kinda f#&ked! Beheading and raping are horrific! Indiscriminate carpet bombing of civilian populations is horrific! Arguing that one is 'more' appalling is pointless! The only thing debating these semantics serves is to create an 'us vs them' dynamic. One can hold both positions that what Hamas did was horrific which warrants a swift and forceful response while at the same time hold that there are better ways to go about this than retaliating by killing a like number of Gazan civilians. This is not a 'pro-Hamas' stance!

Israel has a long way to go before it's on the level of Hamas. Saying there's a debate about this is misleading, because one side is ignorant and wrong.

Indiscriminate bombing of civilian populations is still a step up from targeting civilians. This isn't an argument about semantics.

Allies of Palestine should figure out how to defeat Hamas as soon as possible. Somehow Hamas got the impression that they will benefit from rape and beheadings, and at the moment Israel's detractors are backing up that view. They have strategies that put Palestinian civilians in danger, and make their lives worse. Everyone in the civilized world should be united in the desire for every member of Hamas to be in a body bag or a prison cell.

He’s deliberately framing it that way to open the door for justification of mass bombing of civilians, an unsettling percentage of whom are women and children.
I think the reality people are dancing around trying to not admit is that if Israel is ever going to be safe from terrorist attacks they’ll have to permanently annihilate the Palestinian people. People like the author of that paper are paving the road to that end point.

Hamas is benefitting from using Palestinians as hostages. This is something that people who claim to support Palestinians should view as a nonstarter, so that there are less incentives for being so callous with Palestinian lives.

There are ways for Israel to be safe from terrorism that do not require the annihilation of the Palestinian people.

But there are going to have to be major changes afterwards. For example, you're not going to have children's shows preaching Islamic domination.

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna19509117

I don't like the guy's framing of the argument as comparing literal kill count to literal kill count. At this point Israel has killed and injured far more than Hamas did on the 7th, no one can dispute that. Some argued about the percentage of deaths as compared to maximum population, but didn't apply that logic to both Israel & Palestine. Then there's the repeated airstrikes on Syria that preceded the 7th and continue today.

One can be better than terrorists and still be very bad compared to people who aren't murdering civilians, as being better than terrorists is a very low bar.

An Aside: I don't like seeing the word Denazification being used as the only time I've ever seen it used is as part of Russia's pretext of invading Ukraine. I might change my mind about it if it's used to start describing what needs to happen to far-right politics across the globe, but until then it's not a word I'm all that trusting of.

Denazification is relevant as an example of a defeated people forced to reckon with the bad things they did.

There are problems when groups don't do that, like the southern states sticking with the mythology of the lost cause.

The Russians use it as bullshit pretext to murder Ukrainians, but the concept is still useful. Frankly, Russia is going to need something similar should somebody reasonable ever get a hold of power.

I don't think denazification should happen to far-right politics across the globe, but most of them are not on that level. Hamas and Russia are the main exceptions at failing to meet what you describe (and I agree) as a very low bar.

[Gray Lensman]

Tom Emmer wins Speaker nomination in GOP’s third try for the gavel




Whatever lets see what they do on the vote for this guy.

The Democrats have talked about abstaining/voting "present" to get him over the needed number. Emmer voted to certify the 2020 election, and when considering the other votes mentioned, might be the single most moderate member of the caucus with any leadership experience. Even more so the McCarthy was when he was the Weaker of the House.

[Robotman]

The Democrats have talked about abstaining/voting "present" to get him over the needed number. Emmer voted to certify the 2020 election, and when considering the other votes mentioned, might be the single most moderate member of the caucus with any leadership experience. Even more so the McCarthy was when he was the Weaker of the House.

Great job Matt Gaetz. Your insane grandstanding bullshit may have put a more moderate member of your party in the Speaker position. Thanks bud.

Keep the self sabotage coming.

[Mister Mets]

Tom Emmer wins Speaker nomination in GOP’s third try for the gavel




Whatever lets see what they do on the vote for this guy.

And he's done.

https://twitter.com/kadiagoba/status...14576309256463

Chris Hayes complains that he won't even have time for his "Who is Tom Emmer?" bit to go on the air.

https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/stat...16872975978854

[kidfresh512]

Emmer out already. Trump trashed him he doesn't have the votes

[Adam Allen]

The Democrats have talked about abstaining/voting "present" to get him over the needed number. Emmer voted to certify the 2020 election, and when considering the other votes mentioned, might be the single most moderate member of the caucus with any leadership experience. Even more so the McCarthy was when he was the Weaker of the House.

Emmer replaced Michele Bachmann in the House. I'm only vaguely aware of him, whereas she irritated me to no end. So I guess that's kind of a stamp of approval?

Edit: Ah, I guess a boring old Republican isn't good enough, in the MAGAverse.

[Gryphon]

Is it true trump wants the GOP to swear loyalty oaths to him?

[Jimbi]

Is it true trump wants the GOP to swear loyalty oaths to him?

I have not heard this before, but I completely believe it!

[thwhtGuardian]

Emmer wasn't a terrible pick...which is why he won't get to be speaker. They don't want a good speaker, they want a terrible human being.

[Catlady in training]

Denazification is relevant as an example of a defeated people forced to reckon with the bad things they did.

There are problems when groups don't do that, like the southern states sticking with the mythology of the lost cause.

The Russians use it as bullshit pretext to murder Ukrainians, but the concept is still useful. Frankly, Russia is going to need something similar should somebody reasonable ever get a hold of power.

I don't think denazification should happen to far-right politics across the globe, but most of them are not on that level. Hamas and Russia are the main exceptions at failing to meet what you describe (and I agree) as a very low bar.

I am afraid that the situation in Germany after WW2 was an exception in how people were able to de-escalate their way of thinking after a defeat. It seems it's more common to whine and stick to the idea of one's superiority while nurturing a resentment over being defeated. As you mention, there are still people rooting for Confederacy, Putin is a prime example of someone who still has wet dreams over the time his country was a larger player and I would be surprised if Erdogan didn't have a boner over the Ottoman Empire. There are still many countries with imperialistic ambitions. I wish people who constantly criticize western countries for their colonial past would pay more attention to that. Yes, it is important to point out our past mistakes and learn from them, but also lets keep in mind who has put that kind of thinking behind and is trying to do better and who is still stuck in it and wants to hurt people in other countries.

[4saken1]

Israel is as bad as Hamas like the US is as bad as Al-Qaeda

What I'm saying is that it is a moot point. It seems like the only reason for the argument is to either try to establish which side somebody supports, which is a false dichotomy in most cases, or to justify whichever side somebody might support's reaction to the other. Both are committing horrific atrocities which will only escalate the situation and ensure that the carnage and bloodshed will continue for generations. Whether one is worse or not does not excuse the actions of the other.

[Wildling]

Trump, which we're supposed to believe is the walking answer to Biden's brain at least already having more than one foot in the grave, said onstage to supporters he just picked up that you spell us as US, which was genius.

I'd like to think Jordan Peele read this and his eyes rolled all the way back into his skull hard enough to go around it and roll back in place.

[shooshoomanjoe]

Emmer wasn't a terrible pick...which is why he won't get to be speaker. They don't want a good speaker, they want a terrible human being.

He dropped out because trump opposes him? These guys...

[Deathstroke]

Jenna Ellis pleads guilty.

And cries like a little baby too from the report I saw.

[Deathstroke]

"Ellis agreed to a sentence of five years’ probation, 100 hours of community service, and to pay $5,000 in restitution. She has also written a letter of apology to the people of Georgia and has agreed to cooperate with prosecutors in the case."

I feel that theses 3 lawyers who pled guilty are getting off way too lightly. After all they were the top generals in the attempted genocide of our democracy. Over months they spread falsehoods and outrageous lies which now they claim they did not even believe in. For all the harm they have caused, they would have served some time in prison and their law license cancelled.

Of course they are getting off easy. They aren't you or me. But it still says guilty on their record so that's at least something. But all these deals should have come with the additional term that they can never practice law or be involved in politics ever again too.