All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Iron Maiden]

Another school shooting.

21 dead. Again some mentally disturbed teenager with body armour and a semi-automatic weapon. (Incidentally in my blacker moments wonder what body count a highly determined organised guy could account for in a single incident.)

To misquote Oscar Wilde “one may be a tragedy, two unfortunate, three begins to look like deliberate policy”. Basically US numbers for this sort of incident are so much worse than for comparable countries that any sane politician (or person) has to accept need for substantial change.

It's easy to forget these things but we did have just such a case in Las Vegas back in 2017. For reasons unknown a guy was able to check into a hotel, bring in mulitple guns to his room and just mow down people that were attending an outdoor music festival from his room. Including the shooter, 61 people were killed. Over 500 people were injured.

[InfamousBG]

If it hasn't happened to me or my family, not my problem.

Exactly. That is how most Americans think today. I see it in my line of work everyday. It is awful.

[Zelena]

It's easy to forget these things but we did have just such a case in Las Vegas back in 2017. For reasons unknown a guy was able to check into a hotel, bring in mulitple guns to his room and just mow down people that were attending an outdoor music festival from his room. Including the shooter, 61 people were killed. Over 500 people were injured.

Such events stir a lot of emotions but probably hide the daily body count that is less spectacular… but it’s probably higher…

I want to say that nothing is written in stone: people who had faith have changed things… Slavery has been abolished, South Africa is now a democracy, imperfect but still a democracy…

[Tendrin]

The idea that the forefathers couldn't predict advances in weaponry at the time they drafted the Bill of Rights isn't rooted in logic. They may not have foreseen nuclear bombs or chemical weapons, but there's plenty of literature from that time that clearly indicates they knew of advancing technology and the impacts that would have on warfare.

I'm not opposed to heavier restrictions or backgrounds on guns or their owners, but I always found that argument flimsy.

Sorry, no. Your argument is flimsy one. You really think the founding fathers would have said nothing as individuals gun down twenty or thirty people at a time while decked out in body armor with high capacity rapidly-repeating rifles? The reality is that the Second Amendment was designed for a frontier country with a large population of native americans yet to be butchered and displaced, the emdded fear of slave revolts, and antagonistic European powers. With no standing army, an armed populace was a necessity, but safe storage laws, gun registries, limits on the type of guns that could be owned, rules against guns in city limits and more all go back to the living memory of the founding fathers themselves. The interpretation of the Second Amendment today is an invention of the gun lobby, and now we live with the consequences of our cultural worship of the gun and the power we've given it.

All rights come with corresponding responsibilities. Now, our children are dying and people are unsafe in public to the benefit of the arms industry and we've continually been held hostage by a minority sold on a fantasy. We are awash with guns and the violence they bring, and we do nothing because 'freedom', never giving a thought to the freedom to live and breathe that was taken from the victims of violence, never giving a single thought to the idea of the freedom from grief that those families might have been spared of. We conjure excuses like 'only criminals will have guns, then!' to justify everyone else being armed, in a nation where gun violence is now the leading cause of death of children. We don't have to live like this. This isn't freedom. It isn't liberty.

[InfamousBG]

All rights come with corresponding responsibilities. Now, our children are dying and people are unsafe in public to the benefit of the arms industry and we've continually been held hostage by a minority sold on a fantasy. We are awash with guns and the violence they bring, and we do nothing because 'freedom', never giving a thought to the freedom to live and breathe that was taken from the victims of violence, never giving a single thought to the idea of the freedom from grief that those families might have been spared of. We conjure excuses like 'only criminals will have guns, then!' to justify everyone else being armed, in a nation where gun violence is now the leading cause of death of children. We don't have to live like this. This isn't freedom. It isn't liberty.

You are right. This is not freedom at all.

[Tendrin]

https://www.nationmaster.com/country.../Violent-crime

Australia ranks better on every metric on violent crime than we do. Despite us being told over and over that we'd be safer with more guns, the answer is clearly the opposite.

[Malvolio]

The problem with the "good guy with a gun" argument is that, even in the action movies we all love so much, there's usually a pretty high body count of innocent bystanders by the time the hero or "good guy with a gun" shows up. What we need is not just a way to apprehend the shooter, but rather a way to prevent the shooting in the first place.

[Tendrin]

Reactionary Reddit and 4Chan managed to find a way to blame a transwoman for the shooting, falsely smearing one as the shooter. It was apparently repeated by Congressman Gosar (to no one's surprise) in a lowest of low moment that WBE is gonna have to be sure to include in Gosar's next update.

rightwingers including
@DrPaulGosar
have been spreading misinformation that the shooter in texas was a trans woman, using random photos they pulled from reddit. the person in the photos is currently posting on reddit in apparent horror that her photos were used in this way.

people (reportedly 4channers) have apparently just been grabbing random photos of trans women they think look remotely like the photos of the shooter they've apparently been able to find (or think they've found, who knows), and using them to claim the shooter was trans.

https://twitter.com/molly0xFFF/statu...86598130532352

[Iron Maiden]

Such events stir a lot of emotions but probably hide the daily body count that is less spectacular… but it’s probably higher…

I want to say that nothing is written in stone: people who had faith have changed things… Slavery has been abolished, South Africa is now a democracy, imperfect but still a democracy…

I really don't know if faith will be enough any more. In the U.S, the conservatives of the GOP tend to think that they are more religious than the pesky liberals in the Democratic party. But in spite of these multiple tragedies they will block any legislation that limits gun ownership. Tonight I was watching some of the news/opinion shows and on Fox news the female host/commentaor Laura Ingraham, who is a loathesome harridan, only criticized President Biden for calling for action on getting some sensible gun control legistation by claiming he was only trying to score political points. It won't be long before you here the same song from all of them on the right to deflect from the real issue. They want to keep their base happy in time for the mid term elections.

Reactionary Reddit and 4Chan managed to find a way to blame a transwoman for the shooting, falsely smearing one as the shooter. It was apparently repeated by Congressman Gosar (to no one's surprise) in a lowest of low moment that WBE is gonna have to be sure to include in Gosar's next update.

https://twitter.com/molly0xFFF/statu...86598130532352

My point proven only this dope is using a different song. I'm sure more deflection will come.

[Iron Maiden]

I think there are legitimate reasons for owning a gun and carrying it concealed. For example, a domestic violence victim with a restraining order.

I take issue with people who have tyranny fantasies blocking any and all legislation. And we’re not talking about a constitutional amendment to repeal the second amendment. We’re talking about universal background checks. Red flag laws. Ghost guns.

This is becoming a problem in our area. Ghost guns have been showing up in crimes. Right now it's just in fights between gangs and a few robberies. These should be banned but you can bet the GOP will stop any laws on that too.

[Tendrin]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/10/u...ny-dayton.html

The man who shot nine people to death last weekend in Dayton, Ohio, seethed at female classmates and threatened them with violence.

The man who massacred 49 people in an Orlando nightclub in 2016 beat his wife while she was pregnant, she told authorities.

The man who killed 26 people in a church in Sutherland Springs, Tex., in 2017 had been convicted of domestic violence. His ex-wife said he once told her that he could bury her body where no one would ever find it.

The motivations of men who commit mass shootings are often muddled, complex or unknown. But one common thread that connects many of them — other than access to powerful firearms — is a history of hating women, assaulting wives, girlfriends and female family members, or sharing misogynistic views online, researchers say.

From 2019.

[Zelena]

I really don't know if faith will be enough any more.

My first thought when I heard this news on the radio was: “Another day in the USA”.

I don’t say it’s possible or likely, just that if a change is done, it’s by people who believe in it. Or as Margaret Mead said: “A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.”

[Zelena]

Sorry, no. Your argument is flimsy one. You really think the founding fathers would have said nothing as individuals gun down twenty or thirty people at a time while decked out in body armor with high capacity rapidly-repeating rifles? The reality is that the Second Amendment was designed for a frontier country with a large population of native americans yet to be butchered and displaced, the emdded fear of slave revolts, and antagonistic European powers. With no standing army, an armed populace was a necessity, but safe storage laws, gun registries, limits on the type of guns that could be owned, rules against guns in city limits and more all go back to the living memory of the founding fathers themselves. The interpretation of the Second Amendment today is an invention of the gun lobby, and now we live with the consequences of our cultural worship of the gun and the power we've given it.

All rights come with corresponding responsibilities. Now, our children are dying and people are unsafe in public to the benefit of the arms industry and we've continually been held hostage by a minority sold on a fantasy. We are awash with guns and the violence they bring, and we do nothing because 'freedom', never giving a thought to the freedom to live and breathe that was taken from the victims of violence, never giving a single thought to the idea of the freedom from grief that those families might have been spared of. We conjure excuses like 'only criminals will have guns, then!' to justify everyone else being armed, in a nation where gun violence is now the leading cause of death of children. We don't have to live like this. This isn't freedom. It isn't liberty.

Well put. You should write in newspapers…

[CTTT]

I love how everyone is talking about gun violence but not about President Biden saying that the U.S. will intervene if China makes moves on Taiwan. Like, no one has opinions on that? Also for the gun control people, doesn't matter how many restrictions/laws you put in, people will still find a way to get guns and shoot people. Sad to say, but it's true. Nothing is fullproof against that.

[Tendrin]

I love how everyone is talking about gun violence but not about President Biden saying that the U.S. will intervene if China makes moves on Taiwan. Like, no one has opinions on that?

In between today's shooting and the Buffalo shooting, there were 17 other mass shooting events.

Forgive us for the outpouring of frustration over this instead of a discussion about foreign policy sentiment that got walked back.