All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Mister Mets]

European perspective:
That should not be a big deal, but I keep seeing right wing social media to use it to distract from Trump.

It's been stipulated that people are only very contagious a few days before symptoms show, and during the first few day with symptoms. These were recovering patients. As with other viral diseases (HIV, hepatitis, syphilis) the biggest risk are the people who do NOT know for sure they are infected. Nursing homes, good nursing homes should be able to separate these patients properly, which frees up desperately needed space in hospitals.

You may notice that the article you linked to does not quote scientists, just relatives, attorneys and lobbyists.

Do you have any evidence to support the idea that people are not that contagious in their second week of COVID-19?

[CaptainEurope]

Probably because you tried to refute a point I never made? Or that you cherry picked one link and ignored all the rest? Pot, meet kettle.

I refuted the claim that sending people to nursing homes who were already on the road to recovery was bad policy, a claim made by a story you posted. I did not have anything to say on the other claims, I do not like to talk about things I don't know much about. But the nursing home thing is bullenscheiße, yet you stand by it.

[The Cool Thatguy]

They presumably learn other things as well.

Granted, that gets to a different argument about whether private schools should get funding under ordinary circumstances.

These are generally not ordinary circumstances. The government mandated the shutdown of much of the country, including religious schools, as part of a largely successful effort to limit the spread of COVID-19. The religious schools did their part, and there is the argument that they should not suffer financial consequences as a result, and that this is not the time for culture wars about alternatives to public schools.

I imagine they learn other things, but their very nature is exclusionary, either racially or religiously. If all children can't benefit from it, why should we be spending tax dollars on it?

Private schools by their very nature are discriminatory. So yeah, they don't deserve my tax dollars

[JackDaw]

I refuted the claim that sending people to nursing homes who were already on the road to recovery was bad policy, a claim made by a story you posted. I did not have anything to say on the other claims, I do not like to talk about things I don't know much about. But the nursing home thing is bullenscheiße, yet you stand by it.

Surely it depends at which point in recovery they were sent to nursing homes?

UK guidance is that people should continue in isolation for 7 days after symptoms have completely cleared.

So it would seem a profoundly unwise move to send patients into homes packed with vulnerable people IF the patients hadn’t been symptom clear for 7 days.

[godisawesome]

Well there is something to be said for creating an academic environment where doing well, and good grades is encouraged, rather than shamed by the student body. One major advantage (in the UK, at-least) of private schools is you can kick out the trouble pupils very easily. In state schools... it is NOT easy, and takes up so much time for the teachers and senior staff.

I'm having trouble seeing the benefit of a system that makes it easier for schools to kick out students. I see the potential for abuse by administrators whose main focus is increasing their overall academic scores over serving students who may require more attention or a unique educational strategy. They're being paid to educate all of their students, not just the ones who are easier to deal with.

Aside: Mets, I'm curious as to whether you teach for a public or private school?

From a bluntly pragmatic perspective, it depends on what your overall goal and philosophy about education is; there are some who lean more towards the idea of perfecting the most potentially worthy students and thus are fine with “winnowing out the chaff,” while there are others who see it more as trying to pull everyone up as much as humanly possible. Both see their goal as being one beneficial to both the greatest number of individuals and to society - the former school of thought seeking to cultivate and sharpen the elite (in terms of educational desire and natural skill) by slowly consolidating resources onto them, while the latter school of thought seeks to do a “rising tide raises all boats” by flooding all students with knowledge and e$ustion, whether they want it or not.

As a teacher myself at a public school, and the son of two teachers, I tend to believe in the philosophy of trying to pull everybody up. Yeah there are “trouble kids,” but enough of them are “troubled kids” that I’ve seen get their lives genuinely improved that I don’t mind the ones who choose to try and be “lost causes.” School cultures vary without any set design or type - and frankly, I’ve heard of enough sub-par private schools to think debate over probably depends on researchers with a lot of letters after their name.

There was one guy who gave a lecture at professional development I went to who had numbers he said argued that the “educate everyone to 12th Grade level” was a better economic and social model, with minimal damage to the “elite students” of not actually helping find more of them.

On charter schools, I will admit I’m a little conflicted in that I know that some are attempting to help troubled students and are finding some success, but that just as many have turned into complete failures that fall apart because it turns out that, shock of all shocks, running education like a business means you’re going to suck at education. And a lot of private schools and charter schools operate under faulty premises about “dangerous students” that do greater damage - busing and “forced integration” is proven to have positive benefits that people need to face up to instead of desperately looking to be afraid of. And a lot of “elite” (as in money) private schools are just as much about ensuring privileged kids coast to adulthood as anything else.

[CaptainEurope]

Surely it depends at which point in recovery they were sent to nursing homes?

UK guidance is that people should continue in isolation for 7 days after symptoms have completely cleared.

So it would seem a profoundly unwise move to send patients into homes packed with vulnerable people IF the patients hadn’t been symptom clear for 7 days.

Well, no offense but: It's not news that the UK does not know what it is doing in this crisis, is it? You guys have now more daily infections than any EU country.


Science says:

The data show that nine percent of infected people are responsible for 80% of the transmissions, she says. Why? For one thing, the disease is apparently very infectious but only for a short window, and perhaps only in some cases. Contact tracing studies show people are most infectious right around the onset of symptoms, as well as a couple of days before and after. If someone in that stage goes to a party, or church service, or to work in a meat packing plant or nursing home, many other people will probably get sick.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...alflow-organic

[Jack Dracula]

Public school.

They presumably learn other things as well.

Granted, that gets to a different argument about whether private schools should get funding under ordinary circumstances.

These are generally not ordinary circumstances. The government mandated the shutdown of much of the country, including religious schools, as part of a largely successful effort to limit the spread of COVID-19. The religious schools did their part, and there is the argument that they should not suffer financial consequences as a result, and that this is not the time for culture wars about alternatives to public schools.

Are these to be considered businesses or religious institutions? The answer could dictate whether the tuition they collect could be considered profit for services rendered or religious contributions, in which case appropriating part of the money earmarked for public education could be illegal.
"This is not the time" is a common phrase used by the right to preserve a status quo that favors their ideology.

[BeastieRunner]

I use the term libertarian loosely btw, as a Christian Devos is a social conservative, so unlike the Koch family she most likely does not support the war on drugs, but from an economic standpoint she is strictly libertarian. Privatize, privatize, privatize.

What bugs me most about private schools, is that they get to cherry pick the students they want, so they siphon all the bright lights, and leave all the problem kids for the public school system to deal with. They have smaller classroom sizes and then turn around and say, see we teach better, it's such bull.

I am a libertarian ... That's not what we believe. It's about promoting personal and fiscal liberty, not pushing private over public. Those are views that are at odds in America.

American Libertarianism ( big L) the party, is not true libertarianism but a pocket of neo-liberal policy with an increasing slant on white authoritarian social views. They used to preach moderate fiscal and slightly progressive social issues.

I fear if the GOP takes a shalacking and ends up fracturing or splitting, the big Ls will make us miss the current GOP.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

CDC warns of aggressive cannibal rats facing shortage of garbage to eat

I hear the frogs, locusts and three days of darkness are on deck. What gods did humanity piss off to turn 2020 into a four alarm dumpster fire?

[GindyPosts]

I hear the frogs, locusts and three days of darkness are on deck. What gods did humanity piss off to turn 2020 into a four alarm dumpster fire?

The elder gods...

[GindyPosts]

I assume you mean American religious private schools?

Like American robot cars, you don't want to rely on 'em for the well-being of your children.

[GindyPosts]

How does this help the food companies ? What does it actually DO for them ?

Loosens those annoying & job killing regulations, that's what.

Um... Don't they know those regulations are there because peanut, shellfish, and other allergies are potentially fatal and expensive to deal with in lawsuits?

[PaulBullion]

On memorial day, Trump's approval rating in his favorite poll, Rasmussen, dips to 43 approve, 55 disapprove. Quite low to the lowest he has been with them.

The last week was quite brutal for him in polling.

trumpapp.jpg

[Gray Lensman]

I am a libertarian ... That's not what we believe. It's about promoting personal and fiscal liberty, not pushing private over public. Those are views that are at odds in America.

American Libertarianism ( big L) the party, is not true libertarianism but a pocket of neo-liberal policy with an increasing slant on white authoritarian social views. They used to preach moderate fiscal and slightly progressive social issues.

I fear if the GOP takes a shalacking and ends up fracturing or splitting, the big Ls will make us miss the current GOP.

First there will be a civil war in the Libertarian party - conservatives can't just redo what Buchanan did to the Reform party and take it over with millions of sudden registrations. The Libertarian party restricts voting to those who pay dues, and even then won't allow anyone who doesn't follow certain principles to even run on the party ticket no matter what party they claim membership in. Trump's election has forced them to do a little would searching and rediscover the "socially liberal" part of the platform and elevate it back to a level equal (or nearly equal) to that of the "small government/fiscal conservative" half of the party plank.

For the 2018 election here in Nevada, the Libertarian Party had a voting guide ranking the non-Libertarian candidates based on how close to their ideals those running came. There were officially no endorsements of anyone who isn't running as a Libertarian (per party policy), but for many races the top rated candidate was the Democrat, and one or two Republicans in my area managed to earn a "Zero Stars" unendorsement with an official line of "no one else on the ballot is worse than this person", and it was typically because the anti-endorsed Republican was a full on participant in the culture wars. There is still a bias towards Republicans over Democrats in the Libertarian party, but it is fading.

Additionally, the Libertarian Party of Nevada has officially come out against a few things one might presume they would be for, such as private prisons- citing the human costs.

In the end it would partly be a question of whether or not the religious right and similar forces in the GoP could overwhelm the heads of the Libertarian party since half the party plank is in outright opposition to them.

[PaulBullion]

There is no person called Connor Lamm that I am aware of.