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  1. #1456
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    ...

    I remain unaware that a majority of elected Democratic members of Congress or statewide officeholders are in favor of marijuana legalisation.

    As far as I know, this remains a policy supported by a majority of elected officeholders on both sides.
    Yep.

    Republicans don't really have the market cornered on stupid drug policy.

  2. #1457
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    [Deleted.]

  3. #1458
    Astonishing Member PwrdOn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    One thing AA did was get more black people into college and hence access to an equal education. That was in the 1970s. By now, to argue that someone got the job only because of AA. you'd have to backtrack and say someone got into college and got an equal shot at the required education due to AA which is essentially saying, "How dare you level the playing field and give people the background to even try to qualify".

    One of the more recent arguments is, "What about poor white people? They don't have an equal chance and there's no AA for them" which is a really clever argument by people who can afford it to keep their monopoly when the solution is not to undo all the good that's been done but do more good like, say, free tuition or getting it back to a reasonable cost like it once was.
    The real issue with affirmative action is that allowing a tiny fraction of disadvantaged minorities to leak into the upper classes does nothing to actually benefit the communities as a whole. Like their white counterparts, these people usually attribute all of their success to their own hard work rather than an environment that was favorable to them, and though they often make a show of "giving back" few of their initiatives have any tangible material benefits and mostly serve as PR stunts. Worse, because they tend to have a disproportionately large platforms to express their views compared to working class folks, this leads the public to believe such silly things as the biggest problem with racism being not enough black CEOs or whatever.

    It's not like elite universities are keepers of secret knowledge that minorities are systematically excluded from accessing, they mostly are just a big dog and pony show to perpetuate the myth that the socioeconomic hierarchy has some basis in merit. Giving young black kids the hope that one day they too can be part of the oppressor class isn't a positive development in my book.

  4. #1459
    Extraordinary Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    The real issue with affirmative action is that allowing a tiny fraction of disadvantaged minorities to leak into the upper classes does nothing to actually benefit the communities as a whole. Like their white counterparts, these people usually attribute all of their success to their own hard work rather than an environment that was favorable to them, and though they often make a show of "giving back" few of their initiatives have any tangible material benefits and mostly serve as PR stunts. Worse, because they tend to have a disproportionately large platforms to express their views compared to working class folks, this leads the public to believe such silly things as the biggest problem with racism being not enough black CEOs or whatever.

    It's not like elite universities are keepers of secret knowledge that minorities are systematically excluded from accessing, they mostly are just a big dog and pony show to perpetuate the myth that the socioeconomic hierarchy has some basis in merit. Giving young black kids the hope that one day they too can be part of the oppressor class isn't a positive development in my book.
    There are plenty of businesses who only instituted a college degree as a requirement for employment when women and people of color started applying for the jobs. Before then, a college education was just finishing school for rich kids until they could take over running Daddy's business or marry well. But then they decided to use a college education as a way of keeping out the riff-raff. But then the riff-raff started their own schools like Howard University or Grambling, so the powers that be had to find new excuses to keep out "undesirables." The bottom line is that it's always about racism and sexism.
    Watching television is not an activity.

  5. #1460
    Fantastic Member The no face guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    "DeVos Faces Pushback Over Plan To Reroute Aid To Private School Students"

    "Congressional Democrats have accused U.S. Education Secretary Betsy DeVos of trying to reroute hundreds of millions of dollars in coronavirus aid money to K-12 private school students. The coronavirus rescue package, known as the CARES Act, included more than $13 billion to help public schools cover pandemic-related costs.

    In a Wednesday letter co-signed by Rep. Bobby Scott, Sen. Patty Murray and Rep. Rosa DeLauro, the lawmakers said DeVos' efforts run "in contravention of both the plain reading of the statute and the intent of Congress." Scott is chairman of the House Education and Labor Committee, and Murray is the ranking member of the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee.

    This admonition comes about three weeks after DeVos issued guidance suggesting that private schools should benefit from a representative share of the emergency aid.

    Most of the money set aside for schools in the CARES Act is meant to be distributed based on how many vulnerable, low-income students a district serves, the lawmakers said — the same way the federal government hands out Title I dollars. It's an old formula meant to send money where it's needed, including to some low-income private school students in the form of "equitable services" such as tutoring or transportation.

    In the Education Department's interpretation of the CARES Act, though, the agency argues that private schools should receive these subsidized services based on how many students they serve overall, rather than just their share of low-income students. This could mean, in places with large private school populations, districts serving low-income students could be required to spend relief money on more affluent, private school neighbors.

    In practice, here's what the difference would look like: In Louisiana, under the low-income student formula, the state Department of Education reports private school students would receive services worth $8.6 million of the state's CARES Act relief money. Under the department's broader interpretation, that share would jump to $31.5 million — a 267% increase.

    The department's initial guidance, issued on April 30, confused many school leaders, prompting a letter from the Council of Chief State School Officers, telling DeVos that, if the guidance is not revised, it "could significantly harm the vulnerable students who were intended to benefit the most" from the CARES Act relief.

    In a letter to New Jersey's governor, the head of the Education Law Center, a policy and advocacy group, calls DeVos' directive "a patent misreading" of federal law and warns that, under this interpretation, Newark Public Schools would have to redirect an additional $800,000 of aid from its own pupils to area private school students.

    Tennessee's schools chief has reportedly said she plans to abide by the department's guidance, though other school leaders have been defiant, noting that the directive is not legally binding.

    On May 12, Indiana's Republican superintendent of public instruction, Jennifer McCormick, tweeted that, after consulting with her state's attorney general, she would ignore the guidance. "I will not play political agenda games with [COVID-19] relief funds," she said."

    https://www.npr.org/sections/coronav...chool-students
    Because of course, it's the private schools funded by wealthy parents that are not going to be able to afford the technology to allow their children to engage in online learning at home. How will that poor child in Greenwich Village learn?

    Betsy DeVos and her billioniare husband both went to private Christian schools as children, so while the funding should be strictly about practicality (Low income earners), they've turned it into ideology, by making sure private religious schools get there fair share of the funding, by making it part of the secular vs religious culture war you have going on down there.

    https://www.motherjones.com/politics...ion-secretary/

  6. #1461
    Invincible Jersey Girl Tami's Avatar
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  7. #1462
    Invincible Jersey Girl Tami's Avatar
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  8. #1463
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    "DeVos Faces Pushback Over Plan To Reroute Aid To Private School Students"

    "Congressional Democrats have accused U.S. Education Secretary Betsy DeVos of trying to reroute hundreds of millions of dollars in coronavirus aid money to K-12 private school students. The coronavirus rescue package, known as the CARES Act, included more than $13 billion to help public schools cover pandemic-related costs.

    In a Wednesday letter co-signed by Rep. Bobby Scott, Sen. Patty Murray and Rep. Rosa DeLauro, the lawmakers said DeVos' efforts run "in contravention of both the plain reading of the statute and the intent of Congress." Scott is chairman of the House Education and Labor Committee, and Murray is the ranking member of the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee.

    This admonition comes about three weeks after DeVos issued guidance suggesting that private schools should benefit from a representative share of the emergency aid.

    Most of the money set aside for schools in the CARES Act is meant to be distributed based on how many vulnerable, low-income students a district serves, the lawmakers said the same way the federal government hands out Title I dollars. It's an old formula meant to send money where it's needed, including to some low-income private school students in the form of "equitable services" such as tutoring or transportation.

    In the Education Department's interpretation of the CARES Act, though, the agency argues that private schools should receive these subsidized services based on how many students they serve overall, rather than just their share of low-income students. This could mean, in places with large private school populations, districts serving low-income students could be required to spend relief money on more affluent, private school neighbors.

    In practice, here's what the difference would look like: In Louisiana, under the low-income student formula, the state Department of Education reports private school students would receive services worth $8.6 million of the state's CARES Act relief money. Under the department's broader interpretation, that share would jump to $31.5 million a 267% increase.

    The department's initial guidance, issued on April 30, confused many school leaders, prompting a letter from the Council of Chief State School Officers, telling DeVos that, if the guidance is not revised, it "could significantly harm the vulnerable students who were intended to benefit the most" from the CARES Act relief.

    In a letter to New Jersey's governor, the head of the Education Law Center, a policy and advocacy group, calls DeVos' directive "a patent misreading" of federal law and warns that, under this interpretation, Newark Public Schools would have to redirect an additional $800,000 of aid from its own pupils to area private school students.

    Tennessee's schools chief has reportedly said she plans to abide by the department's guidance, though other school leaders have been defiant, noting that the directive is not legally binding.

    On May 12, Indiana's Republican superintendent of public instruction, Jennifer McCormick, tweeted that, after consulting with her state's attorney general, she would ignore the guidance. "I will not play political agenda games with [COVID-19] relief funds," she said."

    https://www.npr.org/sections/coronav...chool-students
    Why shouldn't private schools get relief? Is there an argument that they did something incorrect and thus deserve to lose money due to a massive pandemic and various stay-home orders?

    That is gross.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  9. #1464
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Why shouldn't private schools get relief? Is there an argument that they did something incorrect and thus deserve to lose money due to a massive pandemic and various stay-home orders?
    Because they have rich patrons, discriminate actively or passively (better not be gay!) and poorer schools need it more.

    Why should my tax dollars be used to teach religion?

  10. #1465
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Why shouldn't private schools get relief?
    I'm not arguing the issue either way -- I'll let you do your own research from now on when you ask questions.

    We'd never get around to all the new Republican scandals and incompetence if we spent all our time trying to clarify each one to you as it happens.

    Twelve pages to get you to admit to Republican voter suppression targeting African-Americans is my point of reference.

    That you still support the party in question only further underlines the futility of said effort.

    -------
    "DeVos sued for seizing student loan borrowers' wages during pandemic"

    "Education Secretary Betsy DeVos is continuing to garnish the wages of federal student loan borrowers who fall behind on payments even though Congress suspended the practice in the economic rescue package, according to a new lawsuit.

    An upstate New York woman who works as a home health aide for less than $13 an hour claimed in the lawsuit, filed late Thursday, that the federal government seized more than $70 from her paycheck as recently as last week — nearly a full month after President Donald Trump signed the CARES Act into law. She is suing on behalf of about 285,000 borrowers whose wages are being garnished, according to the lawsuit.

    DeVos first announced in March that she would take administrative action to automatically stop the Education Department from seizing the wages —and tax refunds — of defaulted student loan borrowers for at least two months. Congress then included that policy in the CARES Act and extended it, prohibiting the Education Department from garnishing wages or tax refunds through Sept. 30.

    But the proposed class action lawsuit claims that the Education Department hasn’t actually halted the practice and is continuing to garnish wages in violation of the CARES Act. It cites a Washington Post story that said the department had not sent formal letters to tell employers to stop withholding money from borrowers' paychecks on behalf of the government.

    The lawsuit claims that the Education Department hasn’t actually halted the practice and is continuing to garnish wages in violation of the CARES Act."


    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...andemic-228519
    Last edited by aja_christopher; 05-24-2020 at 06:06 PM.

  11. #1466
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Why shouldn't private schools get relief? Is there an argument that they did something incorrect and thus deserve to lose money due to a massive pandemic and various stay-home orders?
    Why? Because they don’t need it! Not while they have well heeled sugar daddies to keep them solvent.
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

  12. #1467
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Why shouldn't private schools get relief? Is there an argument that they did something incorrect and thus deserve to lose money due to a massive pandemic and various stay-home .
    You mean aside from it being illegal?

    DeVos' efforts run "in contravention of both the plain reading of the statute and the intent of Congress."
    Most of the money set aside for schools in the CARES Act is meant to be distributed based on how many vulnerable, low-income students a district serves, the lawmakers said the same way the federal government hands out Title I dollars. It's an old formula meant to send money where it's needed, including to some low-income private school students in the form of "equitable services" such as tutoring or transportation.

    In the Education Department's interpretation of the CARES Act, though, the agency argues that private schools should receive these subsidized services based on how many students they serve overall, rather than just their share of low-income students. This could mean, in places with large private school populations, districts serving low-income students could be required to spend relief money on more affluent, private school neighbors.
    Are you seriously suggesting you don't see a problem with this?

  13. #1468
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    Framing has been an issue from the start -- I pointed that out in a previous dialogue as well.

    It limits the dialogue to the paramaters you have set and doesn't allow for a larger view of the entire picture.

    It also might help to remember that you're talking to (arguing with mostly) many of said African-Americans who went to -- or couldn't afford to go to -- "good" schools and dealt with those issues firsthand.



    If Republicans have a better solution to offer -- whether on school or discrimination in general -- it says a lot that nearly all of us have yet to see it.
    It's fine to change the parameters of a discussion but the shift should be acknowledged.

    Whatever the discussion is on the left/ right issues, there should be a consistency on process questions (IE- what counts as a change in goalposts, or an example of cherry-picking.)

    We're coming at things from many different perspectives, and frames of reference. In addition, there are many different discussions going on at the same time (I probably don't make things easier to follow by quoting multiple posts all at once.) It's easy to think everything is a proxy for the big questions (Democrats VS Republicans, Neoliberal shills VS Bernie bros) but not everyone is going to see it that way. It's certainly frustrating when answering one question to be criticized on a different point.

    As for the point on statistics that some of the posters here are African-Americans who dealt with the issues of academic equity, I don't think that contradicts anything I've said so far, but obviously anyone is welcome to discuss the impact of those policies if they want to.

    Quote Originally Posted by shooshoomanjoe View Post
    Why not? Charles Manson never killed anyone yet he was charged with murder. How many Americans died in Puerto Rico during/after Hurricane Maria because trump refused to help them? During the pandemic we've seen that some governors in blue states had trouble seeking assistance from trump. How many died from that/
    I live in New York City.

    There were serious mistakes by Governor Cuomo and Mayor DeBlasio, both Democrats, that have contributed to the ridiculously high fatality rate. Trump and Republican Governors are not the only ones who messed up.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  14. #1469
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    I live in New York City.

    There were serious mistakes by Governor Cuomo and Mayor DeBlasio, both Democrats, that have contributed to the ridiculously high fatality rate. Trump and Republican Governors are not the only ones who messed up.
    All this isn't messing up?

    https://www.npr.org/2020/04/21/83734...he-coronavirus

    Cuomo is far from perfect but he takes the pandemic seriously.

  15. #1470
    "Comic Book Reviewer" InformationGeek's Avatar
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    Well this sounds potentially awful and dangerous to those with food allergies.

    The U.S. Food and Drug Administration is issuing a guidance document to provide additional temporary flexibility in food labeling requirements to manufacturers and vending machine operators. The goal is to provide regulatory flexibility, where appropriate, to help minimize the impact of supply chain disruptions on product availability associated with the current COVID-19 pandemic.

    Entitled “Temporary Policy Regarding Certain Food Labeling Requirements During the COVID-19 Public Health Emergency: Minor Formulation Changes and Vending Machines,” this guidance is one of several the FDA has issued to provide temporary flexibility to the food industry to help support the food supply chain and meet consumer demand during the pandemic.

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