Corbyn was against Brexit on a party level. On a personal level he was pro but the party wasnt so what do you do ? Follow the will of the party. Personally I found the do-over idea the best of both worlds once it was revealed how deep veritas was involved. As for Corbyn I am indeed of the opinion that he fucked up in the end. I came to that conclusion a few weeks after the vote. But imo he still did a damn good job overall at trying, especially now this leaked document (if correct) shoewcases some startling self sabotage. So what if I don't immediately point out his flaws. He's lost and irrespective of his good points and bad points the North voted Tory and are suffering from its effects. Again you can think of me what you like but its irrelevant to the matter at hand.
Hell you've spent most of the posts trying to make me admit "im a zealot' instead of acknowledging that maybe...just MAYBE the North voted badly?
The pointless diatribe I was trying to move on from was said attempts to prove my partisanship, nothing to do with the 863 page leaked document referenced in the article I asked you to read. Hell I literally say "READ THE DOCUMENT" not the article.
I care enough to point out that your bizarre attempts to gotcha me are beyond me caring anymore. This post currently is merely tidying up my statements.
The facts as they exist.
The lengthy document exists alleging labour members
tried to drag down the party, refused to deal with anti semetism complaints and were involved with racial bs against fellow members because they didnt like the man in charge. This is serious enough that a major inquiry is being done.
The north voted in a party that hates them even to this day and continues to be pro austerity up to this day as well (cause nothing like telling hard working nurses their getting paycuts to really lift the spirits). It was a bad vote.
He didn't reaaaaaaaaaaaaally follow the will of the party, he merely gave in enough to not cause a riot; hence the "do over" (which was a TERRIBLE idea, the last thing we needed was yet another bloody vote; because it didn't solve anything, and risked making everything even worse).
I mean... I don't think he did a good job, personally. He lead the party to two failed elections, one being the worst for Labour in 100 years. He had more MPs resign from the party (not the cabinet, THE PARTY) under him than... anyone else in a 100 years??? He handled the antisemitism situation terribly (trying to refute the wording of IHRA's definition of antisemitism was just.... STUPID!!! In the political scenario he was in at the time, fighting it was so, so stupid). I think he was a great campaigner, a wonderful grassroots activist and a very honest man... until he became leader and power slowly and surely robbed him of those very, very noble traits. Leaving a shell of a man, who was still clinging onto power even after the second catastrophic failed election. It was a great tragedy, in that sense. But a cautionary tale.
When making a list of why things happened, either make the list or don't. Don't leave out major factors because you don't like mentioning them. It's disingenuous and damages your credibility
#truthbombOFLOVE
This is the second time in this interchange you've alluded to yourself as a zealot when I've never implied anything of the sort. So... please stop it? Because it's weird, really, really weird you keep saying that, when nothing I've said has indicated that at all. Being a Corbyn support (even a die hard supporter) does not a zealot make. That is not my stance, never has been, never will be. If that's your own insecurities coming out, I'm sorry you feel that way, but that's on you. I'm not taking that opinion.
I'm going to be brutally honest here: I don't believe for one second you've read all 863 pages of that document, so don't tell me I should read it when you haven't. And you didn't link to the document, you linked to the Guardian article, so saying "that's not what I meant for you to read" is on you. Link to what you mean then, not what you don't. If I wanted you to read the BFI's "Top 100 Greatest Films" I'd link you to the BFI's Top 100 Greatest Films list, not a Guardian article about the BFI list existing
I get so uncomfortable by statements saying "the facts are..." followed by the word "alleging". Simple grammar: an allegation is, by definition, not a fact. The fact an allegation happened is a fact, the conclusion of said allegation's inquiry is a fact (mostly, sadly, not always). But allegations are not facts... which ties this all the way back into Biden. Now others can play. HA!
"We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."
While it is nice to see people talk about politics outside of the good ole USA for once, it sounds like you two (Jetengine, Kieran Frost) are on the same page politically.
If Corbyn had backed Brexi,t I think he would have one, but he didn't want to risk losing those labour strongholds in the North, which he ended up losing for the most part anyways. As back to my original post, there has been a fundamental ideological shift in the western world, as the white working class, now primarily votes right wing nationalist. Anyone who doubts that just needs to look at the fact that Boris Johnson just won the biggest Tory landslide in the UK since the Thatcher years...a long time ago now.
Trump's right hand man Steve Bannon teamed up with Nigel Farage and used Brexit as the template to win the US election by concentrating on United States north, the mid west, and they smashed that blue wall to smithereens. Personally, I'm not so sure the white working class can be won back over, as the left hasn't seem to come to grips that it's historic late 19th century rival (Right wing nationalism) has returned. They seem to think that Trump & Johnson's election was a fluke, and it may take their re-election to happen before the left wakes up.
Last edited by Kieran_Frost; 05-15-2020 at 05:02 PM.
"We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."
Winning by less than 1% in a heavy voter suppression States is not smashing the Blue Wall to smithereens. Trump could win again, but it will be by the undemocratic Electoral College and not the popular vote.
There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!
Not an Onion headline.
Trump says US will beat Russia and China with a “Super Duper Missile”
I’m betting it’ll make a huge bang bang and make all bad guys go bye bye.
Last edited by Robotman; 05-15-2020 at 04:36 PM.
Will the "Space Force" be in charge of the delivery system of said "super-duper missile?"
And why does he still talk like a gadfly businessman just commenting on the news? You're the President, Donald! You get the info on these things before anyone else does. Stop talking about it like it's just a rumor that you "heard about."
Last edited by Malvolio; 05-15-2020 at 04:49 PM.
Watching television is not an activity.
Point taken, he did however win the blue wall by increasing the white vote by a rather large margin, particularly Pennsylvania.
Now that Trump's Utopian Kool Aid has become reality, I think Biden will take Michigan, and probably Pennsylvania as well, though that state has had a lot of manufacturing pour in as a result of Trump's initiative to increase defense spending by a rather large amount. Brilliant political tactics by the way, if your trying to keep those mid west states under a Republican umbrella.
As for the Electoral College vote, I think Democrats need to stop dwelling on that because it's near impossible to get changed. To change it you would need, two-thirds of the U.S. House of Representatives, two-thirds of the Senate, and three-fourths of the states. Good luck with that.
The best option they have right now, is pouring as much money as they can into Florida, to help the ground support troops in that State get their supporters out and voting. If you lose Florida, it's a hard road for Biden to beat Trump.
To me, just putting together the best effort to make an "Are You Better Off Than You Were Four Years Ago?..." pitch to a lot of those folks seems like it needs to be where the effort is.
Just running the best "Basics..." campaign that he can under the circumstances.