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  1. #5326
    Incredible Member The no face guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    If the worst thing you can accuse Asian people of doing is buying up property then I don't think anyone would mind that stereotyping, not to mention that, last I checked, being a capitalist country and those properties don't belong to a collective "us" anyway. And I do love how you admit that racism is the greatest problem that humanity faces, but then on the other hand claim that superior Western culture is solely responsible for all of the successes of Asian countries. Though I would like you to further enlighten me about how Japan and Korea welcomed American soldiers into their countries peacefully and voluntarily, and how our relationship with these countries is totally based in mutual respect and trust.
    I wasn't accusing, I was using a racist example to highlight yours, and you wouldn't want that stereotype if it's leading to violent racism against you by people who are using a broad brush to paint an entire ethnicity.

    Secondly, I never claimed that western culture is soley responsible for all the success of Asian countries. If I was, I wouldn't be able to explain how they industrialized twice as fast as European countries, but yes, the western model of democracy, and an independent judiciary that operates on habeas corpus with a free market economy, integrated with a welfare state has played a very large role. I don't see people in South Korea running in droves to go live in North Korea, there is a reason that North Korea has a wall and shoots anyone who tries to leave.

  2. #5327
    Mighty Member Mecegirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shooshoomanjoe View Post
    The majority of protesters wore masks, the majority of party goers didn't.
    That's kinda what I think lead to the spread too. Which just makes all the other stuff we are going through even worse. Like we just need to wear masks when we will be around bunches of people. That's it. Super simple and cuts down on spread.

  3. #5328
    Astonishing Member PwrdOn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The no face guy View Post
    I wasn't accusing, I was using a racist example to highlight yours, and you wouldn't want that stereotype if it's leading to violent racism against you by people who are using a broad brush to paint an entire ethnicity.

    Secondly, I never claimed that western culture is soley responsible for all the success of Asian countries. If I was, I wouldn't be able to explain how they industrialized twice as fast as European countries, but yes, the western model of democracy, and an independent judiciary that operates on habeas corpus with a free market economy, integrated with a welfare state has played a very large role. I don't see people in South Korea running in droves to go live in North Korea, there is a reason that North Korea has a wall and shoots anyone who tries to leave.
    If adopting Western values would help countries succeed and prosper, why don't more of them just do that? Is it that the other 90% of the world is simply too stubborn or too stupid to adopt policies that would help them catch up with the West, or is it maybe because, regardless of what centuries of propaganda have told us, the civilizing mission of the West has always been a sham? South Korea's economy is nothing like anything you would find in America or Europe, it's dominated by a handful of large conglomerates with significant state backing and direction, producing goods primarily for export rather than domestic consumption, the latter explains why their products sort of have a Westernized veneer to make them more suitable for international markets, but their actual culture and society is still quite conservative and traditional. It's also worth noting that, up until the collapse of the USSR, both Koreas were ruled by authoritarian dictatorships and were largely at similar levels of economic development. Indeed, you could hardly blame someone if they preferred the relative stability under the Kims over the steady parade of coups and military juntas that characterized the South's government. Also, the DMZ is not a wall.

  4. #5329
    Incredible Member The no face guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    If adopting Western values would help countries succeed and prosper, why don't more of them just do that? Is it that the other 90% of the world is simply too stubborn or too stupid to adopt policies that would help them catch up with the West, or is it maybe because, regardless of what centuries of propaganda have told us, the civilizing mission of the West has always been a sham? South Korea's economy is nothing like anything you would find in America or Europe, it's dominated by a handful of large conglomerates with significant state backing and direction, producing goods primarily for export rather than domestic consumption, the latter explains why their products sort of have a Westernized veneer to make them more suitable for international markets, but their actual culture and society is still quite conservative and traditional. It's also worth noting that, up until the collapse of the USSR, both Koreas were ruled by authoritarian dictatorships and were largely at similar levels of economic development. Indeed, you could hardly blame someone if they preferred the relative stability under the Kims over the steady parade of coups and military juntas that characterized the South's government. Also, the DMZ is not a wall.
    Again your painting in broad brushes, you can't simply say western values are superior, or western values are a colonial sham, reality doesn't work that way. You have to look at each country and region on an individual basis, South Korea's economy functions much like Germany's in that it is export driven, but the fact remains they have accumulated large amounts of wealth and prosperity since moving to a western model of democratic capitalism, as has Japan, and Singapore, which is why other states in the region like Taiwan have headed in that direction.

    But don't worry, you may get your wish, the global crash 2008 has seen the popularity of autocracies on the rise, and the risk that East Asian democracy will be eventually swallowed up by the economic might of China is a very real threat. Duterte, the leader of the Philippines has already been undermining democracy and threatening to cut ties with the United States in recent years, by cozying up to China and Russia. It's not inconceivable that Taiwan and South Korea could go the way of Hong Kong in the next 50 years, so get your anti western pom pom's out PwrdOn, because pretty soon you will have a lot to cheer about.

  5. #5330
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mecegirl View Post
    That's kinda what I think lead to the spread too. Which just makes all the other stuff we are going through even worse. Like we just need to wear masks when we will be around bunches of people. That's it. Super simple and cuts down on spread.
    Yes but you see more and more people "forgetting" to wear their masks, at least in my area. All the stores, etc here have plastic barriers in front of the cashier and they wear masks.

    Just think of all those times over the years when you would see the Japanese wearing masks when they had the flu, etc. Those societies get it and have been doing it for decades. We still have bull-headed people in this country that are deliberately not wearing masks because their fake sun tanned leader doesn't.

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  7. #5332
    Astonishing Member PwrdOn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The no face guy View Post
    Again your painting in broad brushes, you can't simply say western values are superior, or western values are a colonial sham, reality doesn't work that way. You have to look at each country and region on an individual basis, South Korea's economy functions much like Germany's in that it is export driven, but the fact remains they have accumulated large amounts of wealth and prosperity since moving to a western model of democratic capitalism, as has Japan, and Singapore, which is why other states in the region like Taiwan have headed in that direction.

    But don't worry, you may get your wish, the global crash 2008 has seen the popularity of autocracies on the rise, and the risk that East Asian democracy will be eventually swallowed up by the economic might of China is a very real threat. Duterte, the leader of the Philippines has already been undermining democracy and threatening to cut ties with the United States in recent years, by cozying up to China and Russia. It's not inconceivable that Taiwan and South Korea could go the way of Hong Kong in the next 50 years, so get your anti western pom pom's out PwrdOn, because pretty soon you will have a lot to cheer about.
    The Philippines is actually a great example of American foreign policy at work, being a former US colony they actually have a much greater imprint of Western culture and government than any of the other countries you named. For example, English proficiency among Filipinos is hands down the best outside of the Anglosphere itself, whereas "Westernized" Japan and Korea rank near the bottom in that regard. Ever since independence, the country has remained quite a loyal ally of the US with the population still overwhelmingly pro-American in outlook despite some bad blood from the colonial period. And in return for this, they have gotten what exactly? Americans hardly pay attention to them at all unless we need them as a stick to poke China with, and there has been little interest in serious development projects, and they are largely regarded as a basket case with no hope of ever joining the ranks of the wealthy nations. This is the one and only reason why Duterte pivoted toward China, he believed that trying to play both sides against each other would help him gain a bit more leverage in terms of securing investment and territorial concessions, though that hasn't really been successful.
    Last edited by PwrdOn; 07-01-2020 at 03:30 PM.

  8. #5333
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    We can't be choosey these days darlin'. This is why Democrats could lose to the worst POTUS ever.....stupid purity tests. Trump has a huge war chest and Biden has some catching up to do since he wasn't able to campaign like Trump was doing. Because that was all those nightly pandemic updates were all about. He got his mug on TV every night.

  9. #5334
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    Quote Originally Posted by shooshoomanjoe View Post
    The majority of protesters wore masks, the majority of party goers didn't.
    How many of those protesters had encoutners with cops that lead to violence and arrests?

    What is the percentage of thsoe who had peacful protests versus those who didn't?

  10. #5335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    We can't be choosey these days darlin'. This is why Democrats could lose to the worst POTUS ever.....stupid purity tests. Trump has a huge war chest and Biden has some catching up to do since he wasn't able to campaign like Trump was doing. Because that was all those nightly pandemic updates were all about. He got his mug on TV every night.
    Seriously. We only got one horse in the damn race

  11. #5336
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    We can't be choosey these days darlin'. This is why Democrats could lose to the worst POTUS ever.....stupid purity tests. Trump has a huge war chest and Biden has some catching up to do since he wasn't able to campaign like Trump was doing. Because that was all those nightly pandemic updates were all about. He got his mug on TV every night.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Seriously. We only got one horse in the damn race
    If the Democrats lose, it won't be because they were choosey about getting help from former Bush administration officials.

  12. #5337
    Mighty Member Mecegirl's Avatar
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    Good. They should have done the same thing for Clinton. They let a madman take over their party so this is the least they can do to rectify it.

  13. #5338
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosa Luxemburg View Post
    If the Democrats lose, it won't be because they were choosey about getting help from former Bush administration officials.
    Republican cheating may still tip the scales. An appeals court ruled today and granted Wisconsin Republicans their voter suppression wish list.
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  14. #5339
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mecegirl View Post
    Good. They should have done the same thing for Clinton. They let a madman take over their party so this is the least they can do to rectify it.
    Any sort of unity between the Democratic party and Republicans only opens up the Democrats to becoming even more like the Republicans.

  15. #5340
    Invincible Jersey Girl Tami's Avatar
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    American voters only have two choices, Biden or Trump. We would have had a third choice, leave the country and live elsewhere except that, thanks to the miserable way Trump has been handling the Pandemic here in the US, the world has effectively quarantined us.
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