All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[hyped78]

Biden's student loan relief halted for now by appeals court.

Dems should cut some last minute campaign ads on GOP going all out to deny student loans relief.

What a great idea. Run some campaign ads explaining that this wonderful plan to bail out students will cost $2,500 per taxpayer. Yes, I am being sarcastic.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/02/stud...****finds.html

It was a competition, maybe not always fair from either side, but I don't see how the West undermined USSR any more than the other way around, so it's not a factor in their success.

It's hard to compare capitalism and communism in the abstract sphere where you can only compare the economics. Because there hasn't yet been a utopist communist country that wasn't also a dictatorship that was horrible to its own people. To me, it goes hand in hand with comparing democracy and dictatorship.
I measure success on where I would prefer to live and what options people have to change things more for their liking.

Basically, if you (the general you, not you specifically) dislike your democratic country so much, you can always leave and move to where the political system is more to your liking. People in a dictatorship are not so lucky.

I never said it wasn't important. In the post you quote, I was reacting to Zauriel saying the usual, that Democrats and Republicans are equally bad because the're both corrupt. Even if that was the case (I am sure many Democrats are indeed corrupt, but my guess would be it's not as bad as Republicans - but I can see that for someone that's not a good argument), there are clear differences when it comes to their views on human rights, like the question of abortion, LGBT+ rights especially trans rights, you know what I mean. For anyone who claims to care about these issues, it would be dishonest to dismiss it because "they are both corrupt".

I am not talking about a question of human rights vs. economic safety because such argument wasn't made.

If it was a question of choosing one over the other, I'm not going to comment on how I would vote, since I've never been in such dire economic situation. But I doubt it is, because I doubt that Republicans would magically make the economic situation better for those in most need. Maybe Mets can explain how that would work (that is genuine comment, not a dig, just to be clear.)


Again, the level is way different, you can't just claim that capitalism is as bad, or if you want, please provide info on gulags that you have in the US, systematic imprisonment of political dissidents, etc. If you want to stay away from the human rights aspect, then the level of corruption and the fabrication and distortion of results in order to placate those in power.

Similar to two sections above, not what I was talking about. I wasn't talking in general, but about a specific thing.
Sure, there are many reasons that Latino/Hispanic voters vote for Republicans. Since I've never even been to the US and only talk to people living there online, I obviously have much less information about it than you.

I am talking abot the specific situation, that some of them vote for Republicans because they are reportedly afraid that Democrats would turn the country into communist dictatorship like in some Latin American countries, just because their economic policies are more left wing than those of Republicans (but still mostly centre-right, IMO).
That isn't me making stuff up, it has been mentioned here few times, I've seen it covered on either CNN or MSNBC.

And yes, I find it weird and think those who come from such situations themselves should recognize the difference. (I guess they probably are not citizens and don't vote, but can certainly influence their children and grandchildren.) But hey, it's not exclusive to them, I know people here who lived through socialism and now also call liberal progressive politicians who are firmly pro-west and pro-democracy "socialists", "marxists", "communists" and I am shocked by that too.

Not sure what this is referring to.

Your part of Europe unfortunately knows more about Communism than mine but it’s clear that there are no good examples of Communist states/ governments.

How can we even compare China to the US when China is committing genocide against one of its ethnic minorities, one of many examples.

[Tami]

SE Cupp: MAGA Republicans, please stop calling yourself conservatives

In this week's episode of "Unfiltered," SE Cupp looks at the label of "conservative" and why she has some different suggestions for what "MAGA Republicans" should call themselves.

I agree, MAGA Republicans aren't Conservative. So, what should Conservatives, real Conservatives do?

[Catlady in training]

How can we even compare China to the US when China is committing genocide against one of its ethnic minorities, one of many examples.

Because the ancestors of some of the current US citizens commited genocide centuries ago, then slavery, then a lot of other bad stuff, so it means they never get to complain about other countries doing it now, obviously.

Yes, that was sarcasm, but it's a whataboutism many still use, either with China, or with Russia who is now also commiting gemocide in Ukraine.

[The Cool Thatguy]

What a great idea. Run some campaign ads explaining that this wonderful plan to bail out students will cost $2,500 per taxpayer. Yes, I am being sarcastic.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/02/stud...****finds.html

Maybe explain that people with student loans have already repaid them many times over and are paying off what should be criminal interest rates?

[kidfresh512]

Maybe explain that people with student loans have already repaid them many times over and are paying off what should be criminal interest rates?

Or the plan would effect 40 million people directly and 20 million have already signed up according to reports.

I pay taxes and I would MUCH rather my money go to helping real families get a grip on their finances and not be prey to these insane interest rates. There is plenty of dumb shit tax dollars go to that we all should be pissed about. GOP love to give all the tax breaks all the relief to the rich and corporations.

They never say no to a corporate tax cut or more loopholes for the rich to wiggle out of paying their fair share.
_______________

ABCs not LGBTs: Battles over race, gender inflame Texas school board vote

ROUND ROCK, Texas -At traffic-choked intersections in this Texas town, a blunt campaign slogan stands out from clusters of candidate signs: “Teach ABCs + 123s, Not CRTs & LGBTs."

Blood-sport politics have come to school board elections in Round Rock, a rapidly growing and diversifying suburb of Austin. Parents are forming political action committees, canvassing door-to-door and sparring on social media. National interest groups, political parties and unions are weighing in on what have historically been nonpartisan contests.

The efforts show how Republicans, who have gained control of the majority of state legislatures and governors' offices in the country - and appear on the verge of seizing at least one chamber of Congress in the U.S. midterm elections on Nov. 8 - are now looking to consolidate power on the community level.

Ryan Girdusky, who founded the 1776 Project, estimated about 70% of his school board candidates have won in elections held so far this year. Victories in Democratic-leaning enclaves such as Miami, he said, speak to how their concerns cross party lines.

"People reorganize and reorient their entire lives around their children," Girdusky said. "They don't like their children being messed with."

On Facebook, Zimmerman has mocked Zarate for painting his fingernails and said he is running to the extreme left to promote "rainbow" and "degenerate" LGBTQ values. Zimmerman has called Harrison "the queen" of Black Lives Matter and a "cultural marxist." In one post, he included their pictures under the title "Child Porn Lovers Guide to Board Elections."

Zarate said he and his wife have considered leaving the state with their children, some of whom identify as LGBTQ, if the conservatives take control.

"I've never seen it as terrifying as it is right now," he said.

You are seeing more and more of these stories now. The takeovers of local school boards and coordinated hate campaigns at the community level. Its just scary someone so obviously filled with hate and clearly wanting to wield it against the "degenerate" LGBT kids and their parents

[Tami]

Saving N.J. property tax break Trump took away is now a Republican issue in Biden midterms

A group of Republican congressional candidates in New Jersey, whose party under Donald Trump capped the federal deduction for state and local taxes, are blaming Democrats for failing to reinstate the tax break over unanimous GOP opposition.

Five Republican challengers — Bob Healey Jr., running in the 3rd District, Frank Pallotta in the 5th District, Sue Kiley in the 6th District, Paul DeGroot in the 11th District and Darius Mayfield in the 12th District — assembled outside the Statehouse in Trenton Thursday to blast incumbent House Democrats from New Jersey for failing to restore the deduction, known as SALT.

Pretzels and knots, kites and sailboats, they go from here to there then back again, whichever the way the winds blow.

Former state Senate Republican Leader Tom Kean Jr. has also used this line of attack against his opponent, Rep. Tom Malinowski, D-7th Dist.

“This is not a Republican or Democratic issue,” Kean said in a separate interview. “It’s Tom Malinowski breaking his word.”

House Democrats last year passed a 10-year, $1.75 trillion measure known as Build Back Better that included a Malinowski-authored provision increasing the deduction to $80,000. The tax break was paid by extending the existing cap past its current 2025 expiration date. Every House Republican voted no.

[Zelena]

It's hard to compare capitalism and communism in the abstract sphere where you can only compare the economics. Because there hasn't yet been a utopist communist country that wasn't also a dictatorship that was horrible to its own people. To me, it goes hand in hand with comparing democracy and dictatorship.
I measure success on where I would prefer to live and what options people have to change things more for their liking.

I don’t compare communism and capitalism. It is obvious that life is easier in a capitalist country (unless you have been used to live under a communist rule and have to endure the effects of an uncontrolled deregulation like it has been the case in Russia after Gorbatchev).

Just that in the long run, it won’t be better: greed, growth and a total lack of rational planning led us in the current situation we are and it’s not that great…

I won’t be alive at the end of this century to see it but I doubt the humanity will be in good shape…

[Malvolio]

While this guy wasn't running for office high enough to warrant a profile, it's still noteworthy enough for me to mention it for the hypocrisy...

A MAGA twit running for Maricopa County College Board, Randy Gene Kaufman, drew the attention of a local police officer by parking across three spaces with a sun-blocking shield up, and leaving his engine running. So the officer walks to the passenger window to confirm if there's someone inside, and the Republican candidate was masturbating while watching interracial porn on his cellphone. Worse, he was doing this only a few hundred feet away from a pre-school. After failing to talk his way out of being cited for a sex crime by mentioning he was a former corrections officer, has ended up being forced to drop out of the race.

This guy rails against the supposed evils of the left and goes and starts wanking next to a pre-school.

That guy sounds like Matt Gaetz in training.

[aja_christopher]

I don't think this is what you're doing, but it seems possible to have a trolling strategy where someone intentionally suggests something flawed and then blames others for failing to imagine it, when the failure of imagination can often be the result of an awareness of basic limitations.

Such as suggesting that Democrats support open borders because one of their members wears a questionable t-shirt -- despite no such legislation existing.

Or arguing that Republicans do not support white supremacy, homophobia and fascist behavior -- despite numerous Republican policies that attempt to legislate said bigotry and even voting to overturn legal elections.

You've basically explained why many people here do not accept your arguments and likewise consider many of your attacks as trolling.

Not my words -- but your own.

Edit: The links below are proof from many different sources that the Republcan party aligns with and often promotes white supremacist values -- the "plausible deniability" strategy is not a real option here which invariably leads to the inevitable downplaying and/or willful ignorance of said behavior despite the fact that it is obvious to anyone who bases their assertions on facts rather than fear and hatred of the other.



The bottom line is this -- there is no place for this kind of behavior in modern politics: if you and your party willfully choose to align with white supremacists and neo-nazis then expect to be treated as such.

-----

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/16/10991...te-nationalism

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022...nyn-white-life

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign...ng-the-result/

https://www.usnews.com/news/the-repo...acement-theory

https://www.newsweek.com/gop-vote-na...police-1724545

https://apnews.com/article/2022-midt...c78ac1efee8e31

https://fortune.com/2021/05/27/janua...publicans-gop/

[Gray Lensman]

Because the ancestors of some of the current US citizens commited genocide centuries ago, then slavery, then a lot of other bad stuff, so it means they never get to complain about other countries doing it now, obviously.

Yes, that was sarcasm, but it's a whataboutism many still use, either with China, or with Russia who is now also commiting gemocide in Ukraine.

We had a poster a while back who took this exact same attitude. Colonialism meant a permanent free pass for whatever China wanted to do in perpetuity, and when that failed, he resorted to gatekeeping. To have an opinion on Taiwan counter to China's required you to have a favorite restaurant there, and other such nonsense. Glad that's over.

[CSTowle]

The issue there is that if you want to blame someone for it the answer isn't an elected official, but an appointed one - although a lack of foresight by Congress plays into it. Checks went to inmates because the law creating stimulus payments didn't think to exclude them, leading an understaffed IRS to miss it in the first wave of payments, leading to a federal judge ruling that since some slipped through everyone had to get them or no one, including that the regular citizens wouldn’t either.

Oh, I'm aware. I was trying to highlight the absurdity of that train of thought. I would have liked if they'd means-tested both the stimulus checks and the PPP loans, but if I had to choose one or the other the loans seem like where far more bad behavior/corruption was involved. Blaming Biden, Trump, or any Senator for giving out checks to any specific group when they were literally given to everyone is foolishness (other than to say, perhaps they should have done a better job vetting beforehand but that's hindsight).

What a great idea. Run some campaign ads explaining that this wonderful plan to bail out students will cost $2,500 per taxpayer. Yes, I am being sarcastic.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/02/stud...****finds.html



Your part of Europe unfortunately knows more about Communism than mine but it’s clear that there are no good examples of Communist states/ governments.

How can we even compare China to the US when China is committing genocide against one of its ethnic minorities, one of many examples.

Because the ancestors of some of the current US citizens commited genocide centuries ago, then slavery, then a lot of other bad stuff, so it means they never get to complain about other countries doing it now, obviously.

Yes, that was sarcasm, but it's a whataboutism many still use, either with China, or with Russia who is now also commiting gemocide in Ukraine.

It doesn't mean anybody here or in any of the old European colonial powers doesn't get to talk about it, but that history (and our current actions, including funding and supporting other bad actors including communist regimes) does need to be considered when having the conversation. We not only built the wealth that has us where we are today on the genocide of one race, theft of their land, and enslavement and exploitation of the labor of another but we also have for a good chunk of our history (including to this day) stolen, exploited, indebted, and otherwise strong-armed weaker countries around the world for their money, resources, labor, and whatever else we wanted to help ourselves to.

Is it easier to have the moral high ground if you come from an Eastern European country that's been the victim/vassal state of stronger powers for most of its history (and thus likely to be more biased to certain ones)? Sure. But saying one system is worse doesn't make the other system a good one. Just better than the other. That's not a defense. Saying we're a more attractive destination for refugees and immigrants isn't a feather in our cap when we're largely responsible for the living conditions and strife in many parts of the world where they're fleeing from. We'd likely all be better off if they had the resources they started with, the normal amount of strife you'd have minus our interference in their tribal or political systems, and they didn't have to leave their homes to come to where the wealth has been funneled over the past century plus.

As to genocide, again we're absolutely fine with that if it gets us our rare minerals and petroleum products and cheap goods & labor and so on, and if a little genocide helps grease the wheels we're not only OK turning a blind eye towards it but we'll even sell them the weapons to do it and send some of our best intelligence assets to help them set it up in the most efficient way possible. We'll even outsource them some of our own torture programs to avoid pesky international investigations and consequences. We are not the good guys. At best, we're the lesser of two evils. If that's a win in your book I guess enjoy it?

[hyped78]

Maybe explain that people with student loans have already repaid them many times over and are paying off what should be criminal interest rates?

Or the plan would effect 40 million people directly and 20 million have already signed up according to reports.
I pay taxes and I would MUCH rather my money go to helping real families get a grip on their finances and not be prey to these insane interest rates. There is plenty of dumb shit tax dollars go to that we all should be pissed about. GOP love to give all the tax breaks all the relief to the rich and corporations.
They never say no to a corporate tax cut or more loopholes for the rich to wiggle out of paying their fair share.

And student loans are the only ones impacted by interest rates? No, all loans are impacted by interest rates. Perhaps US taxpayers should also bail out folks who are paying hefty loans for their houses or cars.

[hyped78]

It doesn't mean anybody here or in any of the old European colonial powers doesn't get to talk about it, but that history (and our current actions, including funding and supporting other bad actors including communist regimes) does need to be considered when having the conversation. We not only built the wealth that has us where we are today on the genocide of one race, theft of their land, and enslavement and exploitation of the labor of another but we also have for a good chunk of our history (including to this day) stolen, exploited, indebted, and otherwise strong-armed weaker countries around the world for their money, resources, labor, and whatever else we wanted to help ourselves to.

Is it easier to have the moral high ground if you come from an Eastern European country that's been the victim/vassal state of stronger powers for most of its history (and thus likely to be more biased to certain ones)? Sure. But saying one system is worse doesn't make the other system a good one. Just better than the other. That's not a defense. Saying we're a more attractive destination for refugees and immigrants isn't a feather in our cap when we're largely responsible for the living conditions and strife in many parts of the world where they're fleeing from. We'd likely all be better off if they had the resources they started with, the normal amount of strife you'd have minus our interference in their tribal or political systems, and they didn't have to leave their homes to come to where the wealth has been funneled over the past century plus.

As to genocide, again we're absolutely fine with that if it gets us our rare minerals and petroleum products and cheap goods & labor and so on, and if a little genocide helps grease the wheels we're not only OK turning a blind eye towards it but we'll even sell them the weapons to do it and send some of our best intelligence assets to help them set it up in the most efficient way possible. We'll even outsource them some of our own torture programs to avoid pesky international investigations and consequences. We are not the good guys. At best, we're the lesser of two evils. If that's a win in your book I guess enjoy it?

Oh, I totally agree with the lesser of two evils standpoint. The US has done a lot of bad things, we could fill countless pages of comments with that. But as a citizen of Western Europe, I would much rather have the US as an ally, over the likes of Russia or China. And if I had to move, I would much rather live in the US than in China or Russia; I mean, just look at the fact that internet is censored in China (“The Great Firewall”) and there isn’t really democracy there.

[Tami]

How long until Trump is charged with Espionage?

[Mister Mets]

Such as suggesting that Democrats support open borders because one of their members wears a questionable t-shirt -- despite no such legislation existing.

Or arguing that Republicans do not support white supremacy, homophobia and fascist behavior -- despite numerous Republican policies that attempt to legislate said bigotry and even voting to overturn legal elections.

You've basically explained why many people here do not accept your arguments and likewise consider many of your attacks as trolling.

Not my words -- but your own.

Edit: The links below are proof from many different sources that the Republcan party aligns with and often promotes white supremacist values -- the "plausible deniability" strategy is not a real option here which invariably leads to the inevitable downplaying and/or willful ignorance of said behavior despite the fact that it is obvious to anyone who bases their assertions on facts rather than fear and hatred of the other.



The bottom line is this -- there is no place for this kind of behavior in modern politics: if you and your party willfully choose to align with white supremacists and neo-nazis then expect to be treated as such.

-----

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/16/10991...te-nationalism

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022...nyn-white-life

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign...ng-the-result/

https://www.usnews.com/news/the-repo...acement-theory

https://www.newsweek.com/gop-vote-na...police-1724545

https://apnews.com/article/2022-midt...c78ac1efee8e31

https://fortune.com/2021/05/27/janua...publicans-gop/

If you disagree with something I've said, post a link so that others can see the full context. It's possible that something might be misremembered.

One of the arguments about plausible deniability was about whether Jeff Sessions making a reference to the country's Anglo-American heritage was a dog whistle, or a lawyer describing the country's pre-constitutional heritage, as Obama has done numerous times before that.

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post3447503

I did think the criticism of Sessions at the time was silly. As there should be penalties for racism, there should be penalties for carelessly making accusations.

I do think my views on Democrats and open borders are more nuanced than you give me credit for. I'm pretty consistent in saying that not all Democrats favor de facto open borders. Meanwhile, you seem to be painting Republicans in general with a broad brush when it comes to white nationalism, which seems hypocritical.

I don't view proposed legislation as the only indication of positions, since that's more about what's likely to pass than what politicians would do if they had a few more people on their side. There are quite a few restrictions on immigration enforcement proposed by Democrats, like the sanctuary city policies.

. I have noted for a few years that Democrats in general have not articulated their preferred restrictions on legal immigration, although if you've come across clear information on that, I'd appreciate it.