All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[CaptainEurope]

He fired his weapon because the other chicks life was in danger.

If the taser wasn't effective (they don't always put down people), and that other chick gets stabbed... what then? People would be yelling at the cop for not protecting her.

You don't get to charge a person with a deadly weapon in front of police. Not every cop death is a george floyd or Tamir or Gardner situation.

Need to save this "energy" and time on people who... don't charge people with deadly weapons. Otherwise, this will all become white noise.



100%. Roof didn't have a weapon in his hand when he was caught.

Now do Kyle Rittenhouse.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

I also saw the video on my local news this morning. Again, the training failed with a vengeance. Why not use a taser? Why not use pepper spray? Why did the officer fire his weapon when his life wasn't in danger? Would the outcome have been different if that girl were white?

Honestly that was a pretty standard use of force. You are allowed to use lethal force if your life or someone else’s life is in imminent danger of death or severe bodily harm. The victim was about to stab someone. There was no chance pepper spray was stopping that. So you were left with long range options of a gun or a taser. A taser takes longer and is less reliable. So the officer went with the more effective method when someone else’s life was at risk.

I get it, cops have no right to the benefit of the doubt, but the sad reality is one of those two girls was either dying or facing extreme bodily harm if they didn’t die and the cop made a choice to save the one who was in danger. That’s going to be near impossible to say he acted inappropriately and face any consequences.

[babyblob]

Honestly that was a pretty standard use of force. You are allowed to use lethal force if your life or someone else’s life is in imminent danger of death or severe bodily harm. The victim was about to stab someone. There was no chance pepper spray was stopping that. So you were left with long range options of a gun or a taser. A taser takes longer and is less reliable. So the officer went with the more effective method when someone else’s life was at risk.

I get it, cops have no right to the benefit of the doubt, but the sad reality is one of those two girls was either dying or facing extreme bodily harm if they didn’t die and the cop made a choice to save the one who was in danger. That’s going to be near impossible to say he acted inappropriately and face any consequences.

That is why this is not a clear cut case like some think it is. Some think the cop did what he had to do to save a life. Others say it was murder and want him fired and charged. Some say he only acted this way because the girl was black others say it does not matter and he would have done the same to a white girl. I dont know. I saw the limited body cam video which I am sure does not tell the whole story. In the end he may be fired but I doubt. There will not be any charges like some people want.

It is not simple.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Honestly that was a pretty standard use of force. You are allowed to use lethal force if your life or someone else’s life is in imminent danger of death or severe bodily harm. The victim was about to stab someone. There was no chance pepper spray was stopping that. So you were left with long range options of a gun or a taser. A taser takes longer and is less reliable. So the officer went with the more effective method when someone else’s life was at risk.

I get it, cops have no right to the benefit of the doubt, but the sad reality is one of those two girls was either dying or facing extreme bodily harm if they didn’t die and the cop made a choice to save the one who was in danger. That’s going to be near impossible to say he acted inappropriately and face any consequences.

Everything you said makes perfect sense, but the times we're living in DOESN'T make sense, especially when seen through the eyes of a person of color and all he or she saw was a cop gunning down a fellow black person, bringing up the hurt, fear and rage associated with the concern, legitimate or not, that we have bullseyes on out backs. When I saw that video, my first thought was instinctively, "****! Here we go again!" And I'm sure I wasn't the first POC who felt the same way after seeing that video.

[Ragged Maw]

Everything you said makes perfect sense, but the times we're living in DOESN'T make sense, especially when seen through the eyes of a person of color and all he or she saw was a cop gunning down a fellow black person, bringing up the hurt, fear and rage associated with the concern, legitimate or not, that we have bullseyes on out backs. When I saw that video, my first thought was instinctively, "****! Here we go again!" And I'm sure I wasn't the first POC who felt the same way after seeing that video.

If nothing else, I understand the knee jerk reaction. Even if the cop in this case technically followed the book and his department was all too ready to release the bodycam footage (they probably wouldn’t have had it played out less “cleanly”), they’re kidding themselves if they don’t expect hawk-like scrutiny directed their way, regardless. If they’re certain they were reasonably and legally justified this time, then this shouldn’t make them sweat (too much).

[Malvolio]

I said it about the Eleanor Bumpers case in 1984 and I still say it now. If she's attacking with a knife, there is no need to shoot to kill. Shoot her in the shoulder, she will drop the knife.

[babyblob]

I said it about the Eleanor Bumpers case in 1984 and I still say it now. If she's attacking with a knife, there is no need to shoot to kill. Shoot her in the shoulder, she will drop the knife.

High tense crazy situation. Stopping and taking the time to aim the girl could still have been stabbed. And he could have missed and hit someone else (This could have happened anyway) The girl they killed had her back to them if I saw the video correctly. They could have rushed her, tackled her or something. I think in the time it took him to draw his weapon and fire he could have tried to maybe tackle the girl, use mace etc... Just with most cops guns is the first go to.

I get why people had the knee jerk reaction of oh another African American shot by police, I had the same reaction of oh man it happened again. But after seeing the video and such I do not think there will be charges like before. The police union and hell even a not so great lawyer could make the case the cop did what he did to save a life. I just dont see the DA trying to bring a case unless there is a lot of political pressure or something. To be honest I dont even see him losing his job. Ride the desk for awhile yes. But I dont see him being fired.

[Amadeus Arkham]

I said it about the Eleanor Bumpers case in 1984 and I still say it now. If she's attacking with a knife, there is no need to shoot to kill. Shoot her in the shoulder, she will drop the knife.

I still think there should be a higher standard for use of deadly force than that. I don’t see why a pepper spray or a taser couldn’t have been the better alternative to using a gun at all, especially when you use to shoot someone four times.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I said it about the Eleanor Bumpers case in 1984 and I still say it now. If she's attacking with a knife, there is no need to shoot to kill. Shoot her in the shoulder, she will drop the knife.

In the heat of the moment, just hitting center mass can be hard. Trick shots like that would be impossible.

[BeastieRunner]

You're not supposed to taze people with knives. When electrocuted, the body constricts which can make the situation worse when a blade is involved.

MPs and police are largely taught to mace or pepper spray knife perps. Then bash them over the head if they don't disarm. MPs in the Army were taught to switch to their bean bag pump and body shot them. But the bean bag pump was introduced and removed from service in the 80s.

I don't know how I feel about giving American police ANOTHER weapon to choose from. I think we're at a point now that police need to STOP carrying so many weapons because that is apparently causing them to freeze up, go to the one weapon, and just punk out anybody that refuses to comply. Contrary to what I have said or believed earlier.

[numberthirty]

I said it about the Eleanor Bumpers case in 1984 and I still say it now. If she's attacking with a knife, there is no need to shoot to kill. Shoot her in the shoulder, she will drop the knife.

In the heat of the moment, just hitting center mass can be hard. Trick shots like that would be impossible.

Past that, you would be attempting it under these circumstances...

...That doesn't seem messier at all, the comment from the other bye-stander was 100% correct: she was just a kid, so the officer absolutely didn't need to shoot her in order to deescalate the situation.

And four shots?

In a crowded area?

That's definitely not a good decision, and goes against any basic training on fire arms.

Feels like a different bad situation just waiting to happen.

[BeastieRunner]

Past that, you would be attempting it under these circumstances...



Feels like a different bad situation just waiting to happen.

"Kill them all and let God sort them out" is supposed to be a debated historical quote, not an actual policy. I am afraid that is something a lot of police are trained to do or wish to do, just kill them all and it will be sorted out later. Bad cultural norm there.

It is very sad that part of this debate is, "Well ... it could've been worse?"

Ugh ... humanity ...

[Sacred Knight]

Ohio's Stand Your Ground law makes this case tricky. On its base, as tragic as it is the shooting seems justified. I say seems with the addendum to allow for any other evidence to reveal itself that shows more. But as I could see from initial footage, girl lunges to stab another girl, and she's shot to stop it. But it seems the other girl was one of many(?) trespassers on her property. And indeed whom she initially called the cops on in the first place. So by law she was acting within her rights, was she not? This is tough.

One thing though in regards to these calls to shoot in the leg, or shoot in the arm. That's just not realistic. Its an aim small shot. High percentage chance to miss. Its why way more often than not the torso is the area hit, its a higher percentage hit and at the end of the day if you're deploying your gun its to hit, not miss. In this case here, cop goes for the arm and misses, girl gets stabbed. This isn't a movie where these guys are Martin Riggs with their pistol. Firing your weapon at all toward unarmed suspects, that is an entirely different discussion but when they are armed and attacking? Pulling some ultra crack shot moves in a split second situation would be incredible, but its just not feasible. Yes you properly train these officers with their firearms and you can tell that this is something that is NOT up to snuff in too many of these departments, but I mean damn, I rarely even see sharpshooters going for limbs. Its REALLY hard even with great training.

[Gray Lensman]

Ohio's Stand Your Ground law makes this case tricky. On its base, as tragic as it is the shooting seems justified. I say seems with the addendum to allow for any other evidence to reveal itself that shows more. But as I could see from initial footage, girl lunges to stab another girl, and she's shot to stop it. But it seems the other girl was one of many(?) trespassers on her property. And indeed whom she initially called the cops on in the first place. So by law she was acting within her rights, was she not? This is tough.

One thing though in regards to these calls to shoot in the leg, or shoot in the arm. That's just not realistic. Its an aim small shot. High percentage chance to miss. Its why way more often than not the torso is the area hit, its a higher percentage hit and at the end of the day if you're deploying your gun its to hit, not miss. In this case here, cop goes for the arm and misses, girl gets stabbed. This isn't a movie where these guys are Martin Riggs with their pistol. Firing your weapon at all toward unarmed suspects, that is an entirely different discussion but when they are armed and attacking? Pulling some ultra crack shot moves in a split second situation would be incredible, but its just not feasible. Yes you properly train these officers with their firearms and you can tell that this is something that is NOT up to snuff in too many of these departments, but I mean damn, I rarely even see sharpshooters going for limbs. Its REALLY hard even with great training.

If Ohio's Stand Your Ground law is anything like Florida's, it likely has the same unwritten addendum: Offer not applicable when Black.

[Mister Mets]

...That doesn't seem messier at all, the comment from the other bye-stander was 100% correct: she was just a kid, so the officer absolutely didn't need to shoot her in order to deescalate the situation.

And four shots?

In a crowded area?

That's definitely not a good decision, and goes against any basic training on fire arms.

A situation in which a cop shoots a teenager who has a knife and is lunging at another teenager is messier than the initial description of a cop shooting a teenager who was just defending herself.

I also saw the video on my local news this morning. Again, the training failed with a vengeance. Why not use a taser? Why not use pepper spray? Why did the officer fire his weapon when his life wasn't in danger? Would the outcome have been different if that girl were white?

The officer's life wasn't in danger, but someone else's was.

984 people have been shot and killed by police in the past year

Blacks and Hispanics are statistically more likely to be shot by a Police Officer than White or other ethnic/racial groups.

White people do get killed by police, and that should make White people more sympathetic to the plight of others. Some White people do understand this and are also advocating for police reforms.

Other White people are buying guns and joining militias in order to fight the police as if they were at war.

In the end, if there isn't some kind of police reform, it will turn into a war, where some more radical groups will try to fight fire with fire.

While 984 people have been shot and killed by police in the past year, how often were the police clearly in the wrong?

I picked a random ten police shootings, the first ten results for 2021.

The one situation in which someone was unarmed, he punched officers, and gave one of a concussion.

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2021/0...ooting-nuuanu/

I said it about the Eleanor Bumpers case in 1984 and I still say it now. If she's attacking with a knife, there is no need to shoot to kill. Shoot her in the shoulder, she will drop the knife.

This would require a change in training and procedure. It will also result in some innocent people dying, which is a messy question, even if we figure it will save more lives in the long term, because more knife-wielding maniacs will survive to get the help they need.

I can understand why there is the reaction that there is, and I support that. I can understand why the news is covering it as it is, and I support that. But, personally, I'm just tired. It feels like the violence never ends, and that the celebration over having one person convicted of the violence isn't going to be enough to stop it.

I'm tired knowing that, a month from now, a year from now, there will be more trials, more shootings, more unnecessary and illogical deaths.

We just spent the last 12 months watching people die from COVID. over 500,000 people so far and the number keeps climbing.

We watch a violent insurrection at the Capital

We saw videos and reports of numerous people being attacked and/or killed by the police for dumb things like jaywalking or having an imperfect car

We watched news reports of mass shootings all over the country

It just makes me want to bitch-slap someone who has the ability to stop this from happening but won't for the dumbest of reasons.

I'm just tired.

Who has the ability to stop this happening? What are the steps we can take to solve it?