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  1. #13801
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    I quite like Biden's renaming of those White Supremacists as "The Poor Boys."

    I think we should keep using that.
    Naw, those a--holes would repurpose it as a class pejorative and make themselves out to be anti-elitist insurrectionists.

  2. #13802
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    I quite like Biden's renaming of those White Supremacists as "The Poor Boys."

    I think we should keep using that.
    haha that was the best unintentional zinger!

  3. #13803

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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    It's amazing that Trump is compared more often to Nixon, when as a President he resembles Reagan far more.

    At the end of Reagan's administration, 138 officials were indicted and corrupted, the largest until Trump. Reagan's campaign slogan was literally, I s--t you not, "Let's make America great again". People always talk in fear about competent Trump...but you had competent Trump, he was Reagan. Reagan was an union-busting, belligerent, teflon President who cared more about appearance than reality. When he got shot, he staged photographs to cover the extent of his injury to avoid the 25th Amendment being invoked and so on. His administration had an appalling record on public health, letting countless to suffer and die of AIDS during the worst years of the outbreak in USA, with his administration neglecting the warnings of Dr. Fauci (yep the same guy).

    As for Nixon...I have to say I find him legitimately tragic in the sense that he had genuine virtues and good policies mixed with appalling personality issues, and corruption. He was the last real pro-Native American POTUS doing a lot to recognize and help their communities. He created the EPA. He got America off the gold standard. So Nixon...well he was a capable supervillain in that he did do good stuff worth keeping. The same doesn't apply to Reagan and Trump.
    Honestly, Trump is definitely much more in the mold of Reagan, Clinton, Bush and Obama than any president before them. Especially Obama in the way his strongest supporters cannot accept any criticism of his Presidency. In my lifetime, the only president who had any vision beyond pragmatism was Jimmy Carter. After him, all the rest were pragmatic, realistic and sought limited effective policies.

    If he's accomplished anything, Trump will have broken the hegemony of the American dollar over the world. Despite all his America First rhetoric, intentionally or not, he tried his best to finally dismantle the dominance of American economic policy globally. Obviously, a devalued American dollar sounds pretty bad for us, but isn't that what led all our industry to move out of the country in the first place? It's just too damn expensive to live and work in America.

    However, I imagine that any new administration's first priority will be to prop up that dominance and normally that happens in the sites of cruise missile. I am concerned that we will go back to the strong policy of selling "freedom" (i.e. favorable trade status) to the world through bombing campaigns and heavy propaganda promoting the vilification of China and Russia for a new kind of cold war.

  4. #13804
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Small Talent For War View Post
    Honestly, Trump is definitely much more in the mold of Reagan, Clinton, Bush and Obama than any president before them. Especially Obama in the way his strongest supporters cannot accept any criticism of his Presidency. In my lifetime, the only president who had any vision beyond pragmatism was Jimmy Carter. After him, all the rest were pragmatic, realistic and sought limited effective policies.

    If he's accomplished anything, Trump will have broken the hegemony of the American dollar over the world. Despite all his America First rhetoric, intentionally or not, he tried his best to finally dismantle the dominance of American economic policy globally. Obviously, a devalued American dollar sounds pretty bad for us, but isn't that what led all our industry to move out of the country in the first place? It's just too damn expensive to live an work in America.

    However, I imagine that any new administration's first priority is to prop up that dominance and normally that happens in the sites of cruise missile. I am concerned that we will go back to the strong policy of selling "freedom" (i.e. favorable trade status) to the world through bombing campaigns and heavy propaganda promoting the vilification of China and Russia for a new kind of cold war.
    ... Please tell me you aren't serious. No, you are, aren't you?

  5. #13805

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChangingStation View Post
    ... Please tell me you aren't serious. No, you are, aren't you?
    I hope to be proven wrong in the end, but I don't expect much will change domestically for the indigent and working class under Biden - especially poor minorities. I imagine global financial interests will take priority, and I fully expect increased tendency to use military and covert action similar to Libya, Syria and in the Ukraine. If Hillary Clinton had been president, I suspect we'd probably already have bombed Iran, for example, and maybe even Venezuela. Personally, I'd prefer a weaker America more evenly integrated into the global community with greater incentive to cooperate and pursue worldwide benefits.

  6. #13806
    Horrific Experiment JCAll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Small Talent For War View Post
    I hope to be proven wrong in the end, but I don't expect much will change domestically for the indigent and working class under Biden - especially poor minorities. I imagine global financial interests will take priority, and I fully expect increased tendency to use military and covert action similar to Libya, Syria and in the Ukraine. If Hillary Clinton had been president, I suspect we'd probably already have bombed Iran, for example, and maybe even Venezuela. Personally, I'd prefer a weaker America more evenly integrated into the global community with greater incentive to cooperate and pursue worldwide benefits.
    Trump organized a fake peace treaty negotiation just so he could assassinate the head military general of Iran with a drone strike. An action that not only resulted in injury to many US military people and locals in the counterattack, not only almost dragged an allied nation into a war over a plot they weren't involved in, but may have permanently destroyed the US's ability to negotiate peace with any foreign power.

  7. #13807
    Horrific Experiment JCAll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Small Talent For War View Post
    Honestly, Trump is definitely much more in the mold of Reagan, Clinton, Bush and Obama than any president before them. Especially Obama in the way his strongest supporters cannot accept any criticism of his Presidency. In my lifetime, the only president who had any vision beyond pragmatism was Jimmy Carter. After him, all the rest were pragmatic, realistic and sought limited effective policies.
    Sometimes I just don't understand what people think Democrats think. Obama is very popular, but basically everyone was disappointed by what was accomplished during his presidency and aren't exactly shy about saying so.

    If he's accomplished anything, Trump will have broken the hegemony of the American dollar over the world. Despite all his America First rhetoric, intentionally or not, he tried his best to finally dismantle the dominance of American economic policy globally. Obviously, a devalued American dollar sounds pretty bad for us, but isn't that what led all our industry to move out of the country in the first place? It's just too damn expensive to live and work in America.
    No, business moved over sea because they can get virtual slave laborer cheaper than they could in any country with workers rights. Stock evaluations of the dollar have nothing to do with anything. I don't even understand what you think collapsing the economy and driving the country into poverty is supposed to accomplish.

    However, I imagine that any new administration's first priority will be to prop up that dominance and normally that happens in the sites of cruise missile. I am concerned that we will go back to the strong policy of selling "freedom" (i.e. favorable trade status) to the world through bombing campaigns and heavy propaganda promoting the vilification of China and Russia for a new kind of cold war.
    Nobody wants that.

  8. #13808
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCAll View Post
    Trump organized a fake peace treaty negotiation just so he could assassinate the head military general of Iran with a drone strike. An action that not only resulted in injury to many US military people and locals in the counterattack, not only almost dragged an allied nation into a war over a plot they weren't involved in, but may have permanently destroyed the US's ability to negotiate peace with any foreign power.
    Wait, what? I thought the Iran attack was a target of opportunity. Where'd you see that it was part of peace discussions?

  9. #13809
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Small Talent For War View Post
    Obviously, a devalued American dollar sounds pretty bad for us, but isn't that what led all our industry to move out of the country in the first place?
    No the inability of American industries to compete with foreign firms except through cutting labor costs (breaking unions and shipping jobs overseas) is what doomed the rustbelt. They were simply not able to adapt to foreign competitors having an edge in the development of human capital and adaptation of newer/efficient technologies. The jobs aren't coming back especially if you factor in the automation craze. The education system has also not really developed the human capital/skilled labor for the types of jobs in this type of new economy. You see more people being absorbed into lower paying service sector/retail jobs.

  10. #13810
    The Undead One The Chou Lives's Avatar
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    https://youtu.be/Ar-wjknqxSw

    The Trump lickers are akin to Baghdad Bob. Remember that guy in Bush itís war? ( Stating hoe good Iraq did, with US troops invading in background.)

    Also: I feel America needs to unfuck itself. It needs to heal itself as a culture and infrastructure then play nice with the world and find its place again.

    Also the education/job thing really fucking needs to change. We need bright people making choices on all fronts. Especially as there was a president ( this one) who thought 1776 had air ports ( Planes was early 1900s you ass! God! I wish I was born to a hyper rich and political strong family. While keeping my mental sharpness of now. I mean seriously.)

    The Chou challenge if you want to run a country: Itís simplicities and some issues do not come up. But play Civ series, your game set on God mode. See how far you get without cheat codes**

    * Joke bring itís a pc series where you literally govern a people of your choice from age of fire to current day.

    **- I did it and fucking won. The big joke is the computer is a cheating bitch too.

  11. #13811

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    Quote Originally Posted by JCAll View Post
    Sometimes I just don't understand what people think Democrats think. Obama is very popular, but basically everyone was disappointed by what was accomplished during his presidency and aren't exactly shy about saying so.


    No, business moved over sea because they can get virtual slave laborer cheaper than they could in any country with workers rights. Stock evaluations of the dollar have nothing to do with anything. I don't even understand what you think collapsing the economy and driving the country into poverty is supposed to accomplish.


    Nobody wants that.
    Still, it seems like few presidents are able to resist the temptation to bomb people even if nobody wants it.

    I’m hoping I’m wrong. I hope Biden pushes for massive domestic work programs directed at repairing and upgrading infrastructure for a green, zero emissions and energy abundant future. Education reform. Civil rights protections and lowering the cost of living directed toward ending homelessness and for prison reform. For changes in policing and the de facto illegalization of being poor or not white. The end of predatory lending practices and the institution of debt forgiveness for those burdened by these practices from student loans to payday lending.

    And yes, I want the hegemony of the US dollar to end because a high value dollar does nothing for those who aren’t wealthy. It contributes to a high cost economy where that dollar has more value overseas than in your pocket.

    And I hope for peaceful negotiations resolving differences with China, Iran, Syria and Russia as well as cooperation with international organizations to end tensions with Venezuela and stop violence in places like Yemen and Ukraine.

    However, realistically I think there is a greater likelihood that the US will only increase entanglement in foreign conflicts, promote greater tension with our rivals and sell more arms to nations like Saudi Arabia that are likely to use them against innocent people. I think the global financial interests will benefit even more than they have under Trump with little of that tricking down. I expect we’ll be no better prepared for another emergency or natural disaster. And I suspect we’ll have a President that believes in climate change but doesn’t really want to do anything about it.

    I’m not optimistic.

  12. #13812
    The Undead One The Chou Lives's Avatar
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    The future is a scary thing. Millions of things can go wrong.

    As for climate change, the best bet is the research to get actual results and ween off the oil.

    As it stands Trump destroying Teddys legacy with his oil buddies. Pissing me off there. ( Nstire is to be respected. Money is not everything because it can not replace everything!)

  13. #13813

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Chou Lives View Post
    The future is a scary thing. Millions of things can go wrong.

    As for climate change, the best bet is the research to get actual results and ween off the oil.

    As it stands Trump destroying Teddys legacy with his oil buddies. Pissing me off there. ( Nstire is to be respected. Money is not everything because it can not replace everything!)
    Great point at the end. I think economics and think tanks miss the central fact that most of what is truly important in life cannot be determined by market forces. There is too much reliance on some theoretical invisible hand than real hands on work toward helping real people.

  14. #13814
    Horrific Experiment JCAll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Wait, what? I thought the Iran attack was a target of opportunity. Where'd you see that it was part of peace discussions?
    I'm sure I'm definitely remembering some things wrong, but the US and Iraq were acting as go-betweens for Iran and Saudi Arabia to talk peace in the area. Trump had the the PM of Iraq to set up a meeting with Solemani as part of the message relay, without telling him was was going to be an assassination. The guy was really mad about it too, since it could have dragged Iraq into war with Iran, and they definitely can't handle that. He even threatened to kick US troops out of the country at one point...but we said no and there was basically no way he could force us...so that went nowhere. It really was just a huge disaster.

  15. #13815

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    Quote Originally Posted by JCAll View Post
    I'm sure I'm definitely remembering some things wrong, but the US and Iraq were acting as go-betweens for Iran and Saudi Arabia to talk peace in the area. Trump had the the PM of Iraq to set up a meeting with Solemani as part of the message relay, without telling him was was going to be an assassination. The guy was really mad about it too, since it could have dragged Iraq into war with Iran, and they definitely can't handle that. He even threatened to kick US troops out of the country at one point...but we said no and there was basically no way he could force us...so that went nowhere. It really was just a huge disaster.
    Despite apparent opportunities to really change the entire paradigm in our relationship with fundamental opponents like North Korea or Iran, Trump was an idiot. Everything he’s done has been clownish and tragic from any perspective.

    However, have any of us felt this motivated politically since 2007-08? Another pessimistic viewpoint is that a Biden presidency, like Obama, will simply take the wind out of most people. It will be easier to tolerate mediocrity and a familiar sort of neoliberalism than stay committed to helping our most vulnerable citizens domestically and the most at risk globally.

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