All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[GindyPosts]

"Find common ground"? With a party that supported an attempted coup to overturn the 2020 election?

With a party that shamelessly puts guns ahead of the lives of innocent kids?

With a party that sucks up to white supremacists?

With a party on a crusade to make life hell on Earth for transgendered people?

With a party out to kill Roe v. Wade, returning impoverished women to the arms of back alley butchers?

With a party that wants to ban books because they're too thin skinned to handle this country's racist history?

And on and on and on. You'll pardon me if I find your argument ludicrous.

At this point, the Democrats would be stupid as hell to compromise with a party that keeps trying to backpedal this country into the 18th Century, when anyone who wasn't a straight, white man that owned property was screwed.

So of course they're going to do it. As trying to get those mythical "moderate voters" and seeking pledge funds is far more important than tangible change. When you got Biden and Pelosi saying they support substantial change yet support the only pro-choice Democrat in office that's also a strong gun advocate because they want to avoid bringing in anyone who resembles a progressive, nevermind a fucking leftist, it's hard for to me to take them seriously.

And yet, hearing people like CTTT and Mets ramble on and on about how we must compromise and work with Republicans just has me wonder how they can function, given that Republicans were the ones who decided that there should be no compromise; that government should only be in absolutes. But, no; it's the Democrats who gotta make concessions every single time.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Republicans will only go to extremes and then demand to meet in the middle.

The grey fallacy has been their primary tool since Newt's Republicans got into office, and it's done nothing but damage to our country

[Tami]

In-fighting, Republican style

Trump Jr. allies issue warning to Stefanik camp: Don’t go after Tucker’s kid

Allies of Donald Trump Jr. issued a stark warning to Elise Stefanik recently: Keep friends’ kids out of your political rivalries.

Those Trump Jr. allies were recently told that Stefanik’s camp was behind an effort to plant negative stories about Rep. Jim Banks (R-Ind.), a potential Stefanik competitor in House GOP leadership. It was also relayed to them that part of the effort involved bringing up Fox News host Tucker Carlson’s son, Buckley — an aide to Banks — according to three Republicans familiar with the conversations.

Intermediaries for Trump Jr.’s camp conveyed to Stefanik backers that they believed she had crossed a line by bringing up Carlson’s child, according to two of those Republicans.

POLITICO was unable to confirm the veracity of the pro-Stefanik whisper campaign against Banks. But whether real or rumor, the pushback from allies of the former president’s eldest son could imperil the New York Republican’s hopes of elevating to a bigger party post. One year after deposing anti-Trump Rep. Liz Cheney (R-Wyo.) from the No. 3 House Republican post, Stefanik is now considered a contender for the whip’s role in a potential GOP majority next year.

One Republican familiar with the conversations said the behind-the-scenes furor began when people in Trump Jr.’s circle heard about Stefanik’s team making comments to the press that targeted Banks and Buckley Carlson, who’s worked for the Republican Study Committee chair since 2019. Trump Jr. allies made their displeasure with Stefanik clear through mutual friends, according to this Republican.

One Republican familiar with the conversations said the behind-the-scenes furor began when people in Trump Jr.’s circle heard about Stefanik’s team making comments to the press that targeted Banks and Buckley Carlson, who’s worked for the Republican Study Committee chair since 2019. Trump Jr. allies made their displeasure with Stefanik clear through mutual friends, according to this Republican.

[Catlady in training]

To quote Andrew Yang's tweet:
"Here’s a secret: if you sit with experienced Democrats or Republicans they are fed up too. No one likes this system except the people whose interests are most tied to it."

He also said:
"If you are sick and tired of excuses and failed leadership and nothing getting done because of our dysfunctional two-party system go to the Forward Party and let’s do something about it. Both us and our kids deserve better than this."

Is there one good reason why anyone should listen to Andrew Yang?

[Catlady in training]

Kremlin mulls Nuremberg-style trials based on second world war tribunals
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-war-tribunals

As Russia holds hundreds of prisoners from the Azovstal steelworks in Mariupol, its proxies in east Ukraine have floated the idea of holding a “military tribunal” inspired by Nuremberg that observers say would reflect a mass show trial meant to justify Russia’s invasion to the world.

“We are planning to organise an international tribunal on the republic’s territory,” said Denis Pushilin, the leader of a Russian-controlled territory in the Donetsk region. A model could be the Kharkiv trial of 1943, he said, when the Soviet military tried, convicted and executed three Germans and one Ukrainian by hanging. One key audience was the world press. Photos of the hangings were printed in Life magazine.

Whether the Kremlin will follow through with such a gruesome spectacle remains unclear, but the idea has found backers in the foreign ministry and among top MPs who have angrily declared that there should be no prisoner exchanges of the soldiers captured in Mariupol. The head of annexed Crimea said that a tribunal in Russian-occupied east Ukraine, where local authorities support the death penalty, would serve as a “lesson for everyone who forgot the lessons of Nuremberg”.

The signalling of a great political trial has raised fears that Russia is about to pass yet another grisly landmark in its reliving of the second world war, simulating a triumphant legal process that would taint the legacy of the Nuremberg verdict. One expert called it an Orwellian distortion of the postwar language of human rights.

When a lot of us said we want a new version of Nuremberg trials after this war, this wasn't what we meant .

[Totoro Man]

"This Is Not The Time For Posing"

why do we allow evil fascist Republicans to exist? why do we content ourselves to merely criticize them on a bulletin board when we could be doing something more?

all the evidence is unanimously in favor of vile Republicans being responsible for every single societal ill and injustice in America.

they constantly seek to subvert Democracy, refuse to look at Evidence, or listen to Reason. (all of which stands completely against them)

the time for words has passed in the fight against injustice. decisive action is required!

what will you do to make the world a better place?

or is this thread really all about "posing"? ;-)

[Jack Dracula]

Look, I lean conservative but the thing is when two sides liberal and conservative talk about issues the point is not to convert but have a dialogue. It should be "I feel a c d e f". the other side says "I think "g h i j k". so then it becomes I disagree on points g j k i, but agree on h. It's about finding common ground on issues that matter. But instead it becomes mud slinging a lot I see on this board heavily towards Republicans. I haven't seen one post talking positively about a GOP candidate who does well and I haven't seen one post calling out a Dem. Back to mud slinging folks. Cherry pick something someone says and call them a bigot instead of reading the whole quote for context.

CPAC is being hosted in Hungary by the Orban administration. That tells me all I really need to know about the current GOP and those who support them.

[babyblob]

Kremlin mulls Nuremberg-style trials based on second world war tribunals
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-war-tribunals



When a lot of us said we want a new version of Nuremberg trials after this war, this wasn't what we meant .

The Monkey Paw curls. its very upsetting. The question is what can be done about it right now.

[Malvolio]

To quote Andrew Yang's tweet:
"Here’s a secret: if you sit with experienced Democrats or Republicans they are fed up too. No one likes this system except the people whose interests are most tied to it."

He also said:
"If you are sick and tired of excuses and failed leadership and nothing getting done because of our dysfunctional two-party system go to the Forward Party and let’s do something about it. Both us and our kids deserve better than this."

The problem with people like Andrew Yang is that they pretend that they've already accomplished the goal of a viable third party. As worthy a goal as that is, it's foolish to act like it's already happened when we're really still a two-party system at the Federal level.

[The Cool Thatguy]

The problem with people like Andrew Yang is that they pretend that they've already accomplished the goal of a viable third party. As worthy a goal as that is, it's foolish to act like it's already happened when we're really still a two-party system at the Federal level.

Look, you can put the work in, or you can brag and pretend to be relevant. But you can't have both

[kidfresh512]

The problem with people like Andrew Yang is that they pretend that they've already accomplished the goal of a viable third party. As worthy a goal as that is, it's foolish to act like it's already happened when we're really still a two-party system at the Federal level.

The other thing they fail to realize with this is that the longer you allow GOP ANY power at all the more judges, and local, state laws they keep jamming on courts to extend their reach. It just makes any progressive goal farther and farther away and harder to obtain.

And meanwhile real damage is done to people in terms of the decades they have to wait for the pendulum to shift again

[skyvolt2000]

"This Is Not The Time For Posing"

why do we allow evil fascist Republicans to exist? why do we content ourselves to merely criticize them on a bulletin board when we could be doing something more?

or is this thread really all about "posing"? ;-)

Excuse most folks here actually do get out and vote in elections. At least those who are in the USA.

We are NOT the issue.


The issue is the ones who choose NOT to vote. Especially the ones who use any and all excuses to NOT do it.

Like Kaepernick who did not vote because Trump nor Clinton deserved to win.

Or the black folks who blame Hilary for the Crime Bill.


Oh and how do guys like Ted Cruz stay in office? He's in a part of the state that bleeds RED for Republicans.

Check how many run unopposed.

Democrats have YELLED the main reason these folks get into office is because folks REFUSE to vote.

Take Dallas for example- there are more issues of Batman sold to comic book stores than folks who VOTE for Dallas Mayor the last 2 elections.

We won't talk about school board elections. Where nobody shows up to vote.

[Kirby101]

"This Is Not The Time For Posing"

why do we allow evil fascist Republicans to exist? why do we content ourselves to merely criticize them on a bulletin board when we could be doing something more?

all the evidence is unanimously in favor of vile Republicans being responsible for every single societal ill and injustice in America.

they constantly seek to subvert Democracy, refuse to look at Evidence, or listen to Reason. (all of which stands completely against them)

the time for words has passed in the fight against injustice. decisive action is required!

what will you do to make the world a better place?

or is this thread really all about "posing"? ;-)

I am sure more than a few of us donate to the Democratic Party and candidates we want, and/or work on campaigns to get out the vote. But the problem is there are too many blind, mindless voters who buy into the GOP bullshit and allow themselves to be misinformed and scared into supporting the FPA. (The Fascist Party of America aka the Republicans). We also have the problem of the GOP not needing a majority to govern. But we can vilify many Republicans (and we should) but it really comes down to the voters.

[Mister Mets]

Look, I lean conservative but the thing is when two sides liberal and conservative talk about issues the point is not to convert but have a dialogue. It should be "I feel a c d e f". the other side says "I think "g h i j k". so then it becomes I disagree on points g j k i, but agree on h. It's about finding common ground on issues that matter. But instead it becomes mud slinging a lot I see on this board heavily towards Republicans. I haven't seen one post talking positively about a GOP candidate who does well and I haven't seen one post calling out a Dem. Back to mud slinging folks. Cherry pick something someone says and call them a bigot instead of reading the whole quote for context.

The policy response to the mass shootings is difficult.

This was an atrocious thing that happened. The details of the mass murder are sickening.

There are some people who are uncomfortable discussing tradeoffs. I suspect it's more of a Democratic problem, although there's some of it on the right. It makes policies worse if governmental officials, and the people holding them accountable are discouraged from considering relevant facets. Among other things, they're going to more vulnerable to error and manipulation.

The mass shootings discussion is complicated because we're often conflating different things, which have different solutions. It's terrible when some lunatic goes and murders as many people as he can, but that's a different category than gunfights between career criminals which are the majority of casualty statistics.

There's some overblown rhetoric here, with people suggesting that these murderers are what defines a country of 327,000,000+ people, that individuals are likely to lose loved ones to this kind of violence, that there is a serious risk of violence for tourists, etc. And that's not the case.

There seem to be three potential approaches for people who say that this is a serious topic. The stupid response is from someone who exaggerates the problem and believes their own error. They're going to spend time and energy (which is finite) on this topic, rather than something that is more consequential. Worse for their policy goals, they may end up trading away something more important that would affect more people for legislation that doesn't make a meaningful difference. The nefarious response is from someone who understands the statistics, and realizes that by exaggerating the problem, they may be able to rile up voters and win more elections. Potential downsides include encouraging copycats, making worried people on their side more anxious, and losing credibility among people who recognize the lie. The smart response would be to lower the temperature, and consider policy responses that aren't as controversial, and would be more likely to pass.

With gun violence, there is a mismatch between the so-called popular common sense solutions and the likely consequences. One reason conservatives are suspicious of things like universal background checks (which only apply to a small percentage of gun sales that are not made by licensed gun dealers) and bans on AR-15s is that they don't think it'll work, and that people who want more gun control will go further.

One interesting point I heard was that there was an epidemic of workplace violence in the 90s (if anyone remembers the phrase "going postal") which have diminished, and one potential argument is that background checks work in that context. Adults who may consider murdering their coworkers likely already have a criminal record, or some kind of red flags like restraining orders, which makes it harder to buy guns. This doesn't work as well with younger shooters, who often steal weapons from relatives or are able to pass background checks at 18, because they haven't been alive long enough to commit other crimes.

This isn't just a Democrat VS Republican issue, since the policy suggestions may lead to intraparty fights. One way to reduce gun violence may be to prosecute gun violations and straw purchases more severely, although this would not fit the goals of the decarceration crowd.

There are things we can do. You're correct that the solution is not to turn these into partisan talking points, as that has the disadvantage of discouraging solutions and compromise. We could look into raising the age to buy non-hunting firearms to 21, bans on certain types of weapons that seem to have a totemic appeal to shooters (with the explanation that it is limited to a handful of models) or related tools (IE- body armor, high capacity magazines.)

[Mister Mets]

Absolutely optics, if he wasn't up for re-election this year I don't think it would be even be a question of if he would or would not go.

I don't think he's afraid of losing reelection to Beto O'Rourke in what appears to be a very Republican year.

In bad news from the Nutjob Dictator front. Russia passed a law that changes the Age limit to serve in the army from 40 to 65. is that a sign they are getting desperate for bodies? or are they hoping to recruit the older crowd that has bought into their lies about the Ukraine Invasion to come fight for the old glory days of Mother Russia?

Yes.

How the can you say the Democrats are more dangerous than the GOP barely 2 weeks after a man slaughtered innocent people in grocery based on right wing talking points? Fucking shameful.

He was also an ecofascist, so he believed some left wing talking points as well.

Aside from waving a magic wand to make Manchin and Sinema behave, please give me an example of how they could do those things. LBJ had 63 democratic senators. We have 48 reliable votes.

LBJ's 63 Senators included segregations. It was a different political alliance.

What moderates? Almost every Republican in Congress voted against the recent Domestic Terrorism Bill and the Infant Formula Safety Bill and then they blocked them in the Senate. There is not a single Republican who will vote for ANY gun legislation. ANY!
They care more about making sure the Democrats fail than helping the country. They will do anything to get back into power. And when they do 2016-2020 will just be a preamble to the dismantling of this country.

Reasonable people can believe that those are bad policies.

Many conservatives are suspicious that Democrats would use a domestic terrorism bill as a pretext to go after law-abiding people. They think proper enforcement of current laws is enough.

I'm not sure which Infant Safety Formula bill you're referring to. The Access to Baby Formula Act passed the Senate unanimously.

https://www.grassley.senate.gov/news...amilies-on-wic

Don't forget they voted against price gouging at the pumps. I'm registered as an independent, not really enamored with democrats but no way will I ever vote for republicans these days.

Reasonable people can conclude that the vote on price gouging at the pumps won't fix things.

Currently we have a problem with supply. Price controls aren't going to fix that. If anything, it discourages solutions by increasing bureaucracy.

"This Is Not The Time For Posing"

why do we allow evil fascist Republicans to exist? why do we content ourselves to merely criticize them on a bulletin board when we could be doing something more?

all the evidence is unanimously in favor of vile Republicans being responsible for every single societal ill and injustice in America.

they constantly seek to subvert Democracy, refuse to look at Evidence, or listen to Reason. (all of which stands completely against them)

the time for words has passed in the fight against injustice. decisive action is required!

what will you do to make the world a better place?

or is this thread really all about "posing"? ;-)

What would you like the progressives to do so that Republicans no longer exist?