All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[numberthirty]

While it is not exactly what I watched, this is the fellow in question...

[Vakanai]

But the Nazis didn't think they were doing the best for the Jews. They were pretty intentional about wanting to exterminate them, and we've got plenty of documentation on this.

And that you can't see this in your party is pretty unnerving. Republicans don't want what is best for trans people. They're pretty intentional about wanting us gone, with language that feels pretty in line with desire to exterminate us. And even if it's not by death camps and murder, their intention to be rid of us in other ways is well documented with every anti-trans law they pass. You try to argue around this, that they're "not like the nazis" at least not yet. But when someone fights actively against your right to exist, when they promote policies designed to only harm you and your community, and when they actively help to spread hate against you and your community, hate leading to a significant increase in violence committed against others like you, do you really want to hear about how these people believe this is "best" for you and everyone else like you? How people trying to remove you from society is not at all like what the nazis did?

Republicans, most of them, know exactly what they are doing, and they do not have my best interest or the interest of other trans people in mind. And those few who do honestly believe they're doing us good and not acting out of hate are purely delusional and just as dangerous. What do these people have to offer to politics, to other American people, that is worth mine and others suffering to you? Because ultimately that's the argument. These people, whether intentionally or unintentionally, and trust it's mostly intentionally, are making the lives of trans individuals harder and more miserable than it has to be, to the point some of us would rather take our own lives than live through this hateful unceasing attack against us. And those who support and vote for those pushing this hate, this "non-violent" genocide, this extremist rhetoric against us, those people are saying that this is okay, that what is given by these conservative leaders in exchange more than makes up for the harm afflicted against trans people.

What does DeSantis and others of his ilk offer that makes it okay that people like me are too terrified to even come out to our families? That those brave enough to come out are forever harassed with a target on their back? That those trying to live their lives are blocked from getting the medical care they need to do so? That their existence can't be acknowledged in the classroom, that their chosen pronouns are ignored, that any parent who accepts them for who they are risks jail time or prison time? That the accepting parent would lose rights to the parent who doesn't accept their child's own truth? That people can't even wear the clothes that best fit who they are without being called a public obscenity and a child predator? Just for wearing a dress in public? Of seeing elected representatives time and time again liking tweets that paint us as child groomers or some big cabal controlling Hollywood and the media unduly? What does the modern conservative candidate have to offer that makes all of this okay?

I ask, but you won't answer this. You'll try to paint it as not that bad or exaggeration, when it really isn't, not when seen in the big picture. You'll try and paint it like only a minority are for it, even when it's become your party's mainstream platform and one of the dominant positions of the politician you most want in the oval office. You'll try to sidestep the issue, move goal posts, ignore this, anything to not answer this question. But it stands. What does the party that promotes such hate that I shiver in fear, and I do mean this literally not figuratively because I have shuddered and shivered at the thought, of what might happen to me if anyone found out this "little" secret of mine, have to offer you that makes this alright? What about DeSantis politics are worth the silent approval of the emotional and spiritual hell he's put Floridian trans people through? What are all these conservatives for that makes it okay to not be against them when they want to "eradicate" transgenderism?

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Capitol Storming Barbie actually said during a hearing today, "I don't want my staff educated". Now there was a follow up sentence that at least finished whatever ass-backwards point she was trying to make. But you'd think this idiot would realize that first sentence is going to lead to any number of hilarious memes.

“Capitol Storming Barbie”. I like that nickname for MTG!

[Kirby101]

While it is not exactly what I watched, this is the fellow in question...

Who now says the allegations are strong.
https://www.newsweek.com/trump-indic...uments-1805845

But keep looking for that ray of sunshine.

[numberthirty]

Who now says the allegations are strong.
https://www.newsweek.com/trump-indic...uments-1805845

But keep looking for that ray of sunshine.

Seems like you didn't even get a full twenty seconds into that clip...

Past that...

What does any of that have to do with Nauta?

[Spike-X]

If Republicans really believed what they were doing was for the best of trans people, then that would show that they're too incompetent to lead. Would you want someone in charge who denies you healthcare, denies your existence in the education system, denies you books where you might read about others like you, denies you any chance to live as your authentic self, and denies you any protections from open bigotry until the point you commit suicide, because they believe that is what is best for you? If I believed that and I were a moderate Republican I'd be terrified about what they might think about me.

They never think the leopard will end up eating their faces too.

But it's bullshit. Republicans don't believe that what they're doing is the best for trans people, they just hate us. And people like Mets who defend these actions just don't want to admit the truth - that as long as they get whatever it is they want from the party, they're okay to look the other way as a marginalized community is victimized and irreparably harmed along the way. Mets and other so called "moderates" might not be bigots, but they're willing to allow bigots to attack LGBTQ+ people because whatever they feel they get in a Republican conservative America is worth our losses in rights, care, and ultimately lives. But that's not a popular opinion in the world right now, so arguments must be made that it's "not that bad."

When people are denied the healthcare they need, when their identities are purposely ignored, when all discussion of them is banned, when the only speech referring to them that's allowed is to call them groomers, when they're made out to be some evil organization despite their low presence in the population, all to the point many either hide in the closet or commit suicide, then it really is that bad. It's bad. It's early Nazi party level bad.

What is there to gain, what do you wish for so badly, that is worth the health and lives of trans people?

I'm leaving the rest of your quote intact for the purposes of amplification.

[Spike-X]

This is a factual question, even if it's hard to determine what people secretly believe. An honest discussion about what one group believes should not offend members of another group.

One possibility is that the majority of Republican officials (elected officials, candidates for office, appointed officials, anyone on their staff) believe that the left is correct on trans issues, but they still choose to do what they know to be wrong for political convenience (If you want to get pedantic, you could get to a majority with a near-majority of Republicans who feel this way, plus a small percentage of Republicans who support the same trans-friendly politics the median Democratic official supports.)

The other possibility is that a majority of Republican officials are doing what they think is right. They may be mistaken due to socially conservative upbringings, motivated reasoning and/ or other factors.

In order for Republican officials to do what they believe to be wrong, they would need to be to the left of the public on this issue.

Look at you tying yourself in knots to justify a vicious, concerted hate campaign against a marginalized community.

57 percent of Americans believe that whether someone is a man or a woman is determined by the sex they were assigned at birth. More than 6 in 10 Americans said trans girls and women should not be allowed to compete in girls’ and women’s sports, including professional, college, high school and youth levels. Nearly 7 in 10 adults said they oppose allowing children ages 10 to 14 access to medication that stops the body from going through puberty, and nearly 6 in 10 oppose giving 15- to 17-year-olds access to hormone treatments. 70 percent of Americans are against teaching fifth-graders about trans identity, and a slight majority are against teaching middle schoolers about trans identity.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/educa...politics-laws/

And those numbers are only going to increase as long as the party you support is allowed to carry out their pogrom. As long as there are "moderates" willing to defend the indefensible and justify the unjustifiable, and turn a blind eye to what is actually happening.

But the Nazis didn't think they were doing the best for the Jews. They were pretty intentional about wanting to exterminate them, and we've got plenty of documentation on this.

Really? From day one, they were open and forthcoming about this being their intention?

[Spike-X]

What do you think I'm saying that I believe to be untrue?

That's actually the saddest part of all this; that you've somehow convinced yourself that the shit you're shovelling is actually true.

[Spike-X]

Does anyone think that it is sunk in to the ex-prez that he's in deep do-do? Or is he still delusional thinking that he'll skate free once again?

I think he believes he really does face going to prison for the rest of his life. I also think he's convinced himself that he hasn't done anything wrong, and that this really is some kind of politically-motivated witch hunt with no basis in fact or law.

[Spike-X]

And that you can't see this in your party is pretty unnerving. Republicans don't want what is best for trans people. They're pretty intentional about wanting us gone, with language that feels pretty in line with desire to exterminate us. And even if it's not by death camps and murder, their intention to be rid of us in other ways is well documented with every anti-trans law they pass. You try to argue around this, that they're "not like the nazis" at least not yet. But when someone fights actively against your right to exist, when they promote policies designed to only harm you and your community, and when they actively help to spread hate against you and your community, hate leading to a significant increase in violence committed against others like you, do you really want to hear about how these people believe this is "best" for you and everyone else like you? How people trying to remove you from society is not at all like what the nazis did?

Republicans, most of them, know exactly what they are doing, and they do not have my best interest or the interest of other trans people in mind. And those few who do honestly believe they're doing us good and not acting out of hate are purely delusional and just as dangerous. What do these people have to offer to politics, to other American people, that is worth mine and others suffering to you? Because ultimately that's the argument. These people, whether intentionally or unintentionally, and trust it's mostly intentionally, are making the lives of trans individuals harder and more miserable than it has to be, to the point some of us would rather take our own lives than live through this hateful unceasing attack against us. And those who support and vote for those pushing this hate, this "non-violent" genocide, this extremist rhetoric against us, those people are saying that this is okay, that what is given by these conservative leaders in exchange more than makes up for the harm afflicted against trans people.

What does DeSantis and others of his ilk offer that makes it okay that people like me are too terrified to even come out to our families? That those brave enough to come out are forever harassed with a target on their back? That those trying to live their lives are blocked from getting the medical care they need to do so? That their existence can't be acknowledged in the classroom, that their chosen pronouns are ignored, that any parent who accepts them for who they are risks jail time or prison time? That the accepting parent would lose rights to the parent who doesn't accept their child's own truth? That people can't even wear the clothes that best fit who they are without being called a public obscenity and a child predator? Just for wearing a dress in public? Of seeing elected representatives time and time again liking tweets that paint us as child groomers or some big cabal controlling Hollywood and the media unduly? What does the modern conservative candidate have to offer that makes all of this okay?

I ask, but you won't answer this. You'll try to paint it as not that bad or exaggeration, when it really isn't, not when seen in the big picture. You'll try and paint it like only a minority are for it, even when it's become your party's mainstream platform and one of the dominant positions of the politician you most want in the oval office. You'll try to sidestep the issue, move goal posts, ignore this, anything to not answer this question. But it stands. What does the party that promotes such hate that I shiver in fear, and I do mean this literally not figuratively because I have shuddered and shivered at the thought, of what might happen to me if anyone found out this "little" secret of mine, have to offer you that makes this alright? What about DeSantis politics are worth the silent approval of the emotional and spiritual hell he's put Floridian trans people through? What are all these conservatives for that makes it okay to not be against them when they want to "eradicate" transgenderism?

This is a question I've asked before, and I'd also really like to see answered. Although I've facetiously made remarks about tax cuts, it can't be as simple, as selfish, as cartoonishly one-dimensional as that...can it?

[Mister Mets]

A horrible person. I don't even watch any sports, but I always cheer when I hear he lost some match.



Hm, maybe? After all, there were church members who believed they were doing the best for people that they murdered and there are still some cult leaders today who believe they do the best for people by letting them die.

Question is, does it matter if they really think that they do the best for a group of people, if vast majority of those people tell them that they are actively harming them and should stop?

If I came to your house and started to rearrange everything according to my style and threw away half your stuff, claiming that it is best for you to not be dependent on it, would you care what my intention is, or would you just think it's none of my business and I have no right to do that?

The truth matters. If you can't understand where someone else is coming from, you can't persuade them. You'll also be less effective at persuading others.

Obviously I wouldn't be happy with a feng shui fanatic breaking into my house to rearrange the furniture. But if I wanted to do something about it, accuracy matters. If I get details wrong in a police report, it might hurt a prosecution. And it would be important to know someone's motivations in order to argue against laws that would make it easier for someone to break into my house and throw away some of my stuff.

[Panfoot]

Your asking us to persuade you that we have the right to exist, you fucking ghoul.

[Spike-X]

The truth matters. If you can't understand where someone else is coming from, you can't persuade them. You'll also be less effective at persuading others.

Obviously I wouldn't be happy with a feng shui fanatic breaking into my house to rearrange the furniture. But if I wanted to do something about it, accuracy matters. If I get details wrong in a police report, it might hurt a prosecution. And it would be important to know someone's motivations in order to argue against laws that would make it easier for someone to break into my house and throw away some of my stuff.

The right of any human being to simply exist as who they are isn't a fucking debate topic. We already had the debate, eighty years ago. The side you're defending lost.

[WAKANDA FOREVER!]

It appears just being a human being isn't enough, Panfoot.

[Spike-X]

redundant post please delete because goodness knows I can't do it myself