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  1. #1681
    Extraordinary Member Tendrin's Avatar
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  2. #1682
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    Don’t be fooled. This is all a distraction from the fact that coronavirus deaths topped 100,000 today, and the absolute LAST thing Trump wants is for everyone to focus on that, and how his glaring incompetence resulted in this ongoing tragedy.
    I'm a social media hermit, only seeing or mocking the stuff secondhand. But if he wants to wage war on that invisible enemy instead of the important one, maybe everybody else will wise up by the time Thanksgiving dinners get some Coronawaved empty chairs.

  3. #1683
    Fantastic Member The no face guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    A further problem is that districts and schools often have incentives not to hire diagnositicians.

    If a child is diagnosed with a specific ailment, it could mean that they're entitled to specific services, which are potentially costly. It may be better for the bottom line of a school to not demonstrate that a kid has dyslexia, which is messed up.

    One of the problems with education policy is that the elites (legislators, media figures, etc.) are largely inoculated from decisions they make regarding the typical public schools, as their kids are unlikely to attend. If they don't live in an upper middle class, or upper class enclave, where the student body reflects the local demographics, they have the connections to get their kids into more selective public schools, and if neither of those helps their kids be in a school without the riffraff, they can always send their kids to private school.
    So the entire argument for making it tougher for some parents to have more choices about where to send their kids is that other people's children have to compromise on the quality of education to make sure that trouble(d) students are more evenly distributed. This is going to be deeply unpopular with parents.

    It is also worth noting the implications of racial equity when it comes to kids who get a worse education because of the presence of disruptive students. Methods that make it more difficult to remove those students, and to provide incentives for better behavior, are going to have consequences for their classmates, who tend to be from similar socioeconomic classes thanks to geographical stratification.
    I think I mentioned that there was the problem that we had a number of us arguing from different countries, so we all have different perspectives. Normally I wouldn't jump into a conversation about American education, but the Betsy Devos article got me really angry, because she is diverting the money away from the children who need it, to children that don't. As for the "bad apples" upper class neighborhoods are not going to have as many of them, so Charter schools will more likely hurt public education in lower income neighborhoods.

    In terms of racial equality and education, we do not have that problem in Canada, because all the tax money collected for education is distributed evenly through each district, which you do not seem to do. I find the idea that white kids in a middle class suburb are getting funded more than black kids in urban or rural centers, to be reprehensible...and if as you say, the United States is dumping more money into public education than any other country, and getting worse results than any other notable western nation, Republican and Democrat alike, might want to reach across the aisle to find out why?

  4. #1684
    Astonishing Member PwrdOn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    Well I apologize if you felt I was being dismissive of the problems that minorities face, as that wasn’t my intention at all. The point I simply want to drive home is that, as Booker T. Washington was talking about, is that hard work pays off sooner or later, and going by that, in case you personally or someone else feels compelled enough to address these issues beyond the internet, and manage to work with others in power in such a way that they help contributing towards positively influencing police forces to confront their corrupt cops and possibly have those corrupt cops lose their jobs, as well as firing many of the other corrupt people involving with the justice system and so on and so forth, or whatever other aspect they positively influence upon society for minorities, then I wish you or whomever the best in working towards that to be best of your or their ability, as just as activists in the past such as Martin Luther King worked their way up in positively influencing society then, then I’m positive that even after his assassination, I’m sure reasonably, that there will continue being activists that will have positive influences that will end up having noticeable impacts on society sooner or later.

    And if anything I have said still shows that I’m being dismissive towards minorities, then I apologize once again. Take care and may the best happen for the greater good of society for minorities.
    The point is that it's not just a handful of corrupt cops that are responsible for all of these problems, it's the entire structure of American society that requires the constant suppression of minorities so that white people can live comfortably. Critically, this means that the struggle for civil rights does NOT end with all people of color enjoying the same privileges that white people have now, because that would require the exploitation of an even greater number of people to sustain that kind of lifestyle. It must necessarily involve, to some degree, those who benefit from this exploitative system to come down and meet the rest of us halfway.

  5. #1685
    Astonishing Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    The point is that it's not just a handful of corrupt cops that are responsible for all of these problems, it's the entire structure of American society that requires the constant suppression of minorities so that white people can live comfortably. Critically, this means that the struggle for civil rights does NOT end with all people of color enjoying the same privileges that white people have now, because that would require the exploitation of an even greater number of people to sustain that kind of lifestyle. It must necessarily involve, to some degree, those who benefit from this exploitative system to come down and meet the rest of us halfway.
    And may the event of coming down, like you mentioned, turn out for the better.

  6. #1686
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    Quote Originally Posted by The no face guy View Post
    In terms of racial equality and education, we do not have that problem in Canada, because all the tax money collected for education is distributed evenly through each district, which you do not seem to do. I find the idea that white kids in a middle class suburb are getting funded more than black kids in urban or rural centers, to be reprehensible...
    Many of us do -- especially those of us "black kids" who witnessed the blatant inequalities both as a student and as a teacher in said districts.

    And there's no reason to keep "reaching across the aisle" when one specific party continually cuts funding, obstructs legislation, shows little to no concern for "minorities" and the poor, and continues to attempt to justify de facto segregation via both race and income level -- to put it simply, Republicans are just as backwards on education as they are on other science based issues such as climate change and medical care.

    Republicans will cut corporate taxes and increase miliitary spending even when the Pentagon and military leaders protest but won't do the same for schools despite numerous requests and strikes from teachers demanding better pay and thousands of students being failed by an inherently and systemically racist educational system.

    There's no reason to assume that Republicans operate in "good faith" on these issues when you take into their actions rather than their usual innacurate and/or misleading rhetoric -- as you point out, if the goal were equality then American schools would be funded in relatively equal measure and those areas most in need of aid would recieve more of it, not less.

    Judging by the facts -- and given the comparatively subpar education levels of many Republican states and regions -- it's clear to see that many prefer an uneducated (and divided/segregated) populace as it makes them easier to manipulate: it's no accident that many of those you see protesting increased educational spending and coronavirus saftey measures and falsely claiming that mail-in votes are rife with "voter fraud" and the like are Republican.

    If it seems to those in other countries that Americans are becoming less educated and informed as time goes on then look no further than the Republican party and the "leaders" they have elected (Bush Jr and Trump) over the last few decades as their grand intellectual capabilities and judgement skills are the clearest reflections of what Republicans seek in both domestic and global leadership.

    -----
    "FACT SHEET: Republican Budget Cuts Education"

    "The Republican conference agreement on the fiscal year 2016 budget resolution makes many cuts in support for education.

    Guts investments — The budget agreement maintains the post-sequester non-defense discretionary funding cap for 2016, slashing the 2016 funding level by $37.3 billion below the comparable President's request. But after 2016, the cuts get worse. Over ten years, the budget cuts non-defense funding by $496 billion below the cap levels, leading to a 21 percent loss of purchasing power by 2025. In addition to the cuts shown for education programs, the budget has another $575 billion of unallocated discretionary cuts that could fall on education programs or any other non-defense program.

    Effect on pre-K, elementary, and secondary education in 2016 – House Republicans have not yet produced their 2016 education funding bill but they have cut its allocation by $3.7 billion below last year's enacted level, and by $14.6 billion (8.7 percent) below the President's request. If cuts are spread proportionately under that allocation, the Administration estimates that the Republican funding bill will cut 46,000 children from Head Start, cut $1.3 billion from Title I, and cut $450 million from special education relative to the President's request.

    Increases student debt — Even though student loan debt already exceeds $1.3 trillion – more than the total of all credit card debt – the conference agreement on the budget guts current policy support for higher education by about $200 billion over ten years.

    Student loans – In total, the conference agreement cuts mandatory spending in the education function by almost as much as the House-passed budget. Although the agreement does not specify which higher education cuts it intends, the House budget made the following cuts:

    o Eliminated in-school subsidies for student loans for needy undergraduates. The Congressional Budget Office has estimated that this would add $3,800 to the debt of a student borrowing $23,000 in subsidized loans. Many students who get these subsidized loans also rely on Pell grants to pay for college. Eliminating subsidized loans cuts student support by $34 billion over ten years.

    o Eliminated public service loan forgiveness which forgives borrowers' remaining balance owed on Direct Loans after working full time in public service and making 10 years of on-time payments. Eliminating the program will cut about $10 billion in student loan debt relief designed to help graduates afford to work in public service, including as teachers, law enforcement, or in military service or other government employment.

    o Eliminated existing expansion of income-based repayment. This program generally caps the monthly repayment amount at 10 percent of the borrower's discretionary income for 20 years. Eliminating this program cuts about $16 billion from student debt relief efforts.

    Pell grants – Section 6209 of the conference agreement makes it the policy of the House to freeze the maximum Pell grant for the next ten years, erasing the already-enacted inflationary increases that will raise the maximum grant by $225 by 2017. Congress already offset the cost of this increase and of maintaining it thereafter. The House budget made clear that it intended to eliminate all the mandatory funding Congress has already enacted for Pell grants, which eliminates nearly $85 billion in Pell grant aid over the next ten years.

    College tax credits – The budget agreement lets the American Opportunity Tax Credit expire after next year, eliminating a $2,500 tax credit that helps more than 10 million low- and moderate-income students pay for college each year. Extending the tax credit costs $80 billion over ten years."


    https://budget.house.gov/fact-sheet/...cuts-education
    Last edited by aja_christopher; 05-28-2020 at 12:55 AM.

  7. #1687
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    When it comes to Democrats "reaching across the aisle" we've already seen how Republicans respond to that in their treatment of Obama.

    No one should be surprised that an ignorant, uncompromising, racist "birther in chief" took over their party since that was already the status quo.

    And likewise no one should expect anything to change in said party just because Trump might eventually leave office.
    Last edited by aja_christopher; 05-28-2020 at 12:41 AM.

  8. #1688
    Astonishing Member jetengine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    It's just so odd since she's not the only woman in politics, she may have risen very high except what values does Omar want? Is it about winning, or being strong while having principles closer of her own? Hillary Clinton would be a better fit with the latter. There's many, many women she could have chosen, it's juts so baffling that she chose British Reagan. Someone who is the antithesis to everything she values ideologically.
    Clinton is radioactive in US Politics, a foreign politician helps because people are like "Who?" To some degree or other.

  9. #1689
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  10. #1690
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    Piggybacking on that:

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/202...paign=trending

    Dems like Sims are livid over what Republicans had done which was beyond reprehensible. Mike Turzai needs to be bumped to the head of WBE's queue immediately because he participated in, if not orchestrated a cover-up that was flat out fucking criminal.

    From HuffPost:

    Pennsylvania Democrats: GOP Lawmaker’s Positive COVID-19 Test Kept Secret For A Week
    Last edited by WestPhillyPunisher; 05-28-2020 at 02:04 AM.
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

  11. #1691
    Extraordinary Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    Piggybacking on that:

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/202...paign=trending

    Dems like Sims are livid over what Republicans had done which was beyond reprehensible. Mike Turzai needs to be bumped to the head of WBE's queue immediately because he participated in, if not orchestrated a cover-up that was flat out fucking criminal.

    From HuffPost:

    Pennsylvania Democrats: GOP Lawmaker’s Positive COVID-19 Test Kept Secret For A Week
    Agreed 100%. Turzai has been dreadful for years based on what my memory and google says, but I can't recall if WBE has profiled him before.

  12. #1692
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    Clinton is radioactive in US Politics, a foreign politician helps because people are like "Who?" To some degree or other.
    Clinton's a rock star in the Democratic party, she been an intrinsic part of it for years and when she has been ran for president everyone who stands against her are overshadowed by her influence and power. She was making history in congress since she was the First Lady and been doing things in politics long before that. This isn't just a "foreign politician" it's like discovering Corbyn has secretly been idolising Ronald Reagan his whole life. There are many, many female politicians in politics all over the world who don't have Thatcher's track record. For example, Mary Robinson, Prime Minister of Ireland in 1990. You don't even have to look for politicians, there was Princess Diana.
    Last edited by Steel Inquisitor; 05-28-2020 at 02:29 AM.

  13. #1693
    "Comic Book Reviewer" InformationGeek's Avatar
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    Cotton and Blackburn are being incredibly racist today.

    "Senator Tom Cotton (R-AR) and Senator Marsha Blackburn (R-TN) today unveiled the SECURE CAMPUS Act, legislation that would prohibit Chinese nationals from receiving visas to the United States for graduate or post-graduate studies in STEM fields."

  14. #1694
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The no face guy View Post
    I think I mentioned that there was the problem that we had a number of us arguing from different countries, so we all have different perspectives. Normally I wouldn't jump into a conversation about American education, but the Betsy Devos article got me really angry, because she is diverting the money away from the children who need it, to children that don't. As for the "bad apples" upper class neighborhoods are not going to have as many of them, so Charter schools will more likely hurt public education in lower income neighborhoods.

    In terms of racial equality and education, we do not have that problem in Canada, because all the tax money collected for education is distributed evenly through each district, which you do not seem to do. I find the idea that white kids in a middle class suburb are getting funded more than black kids in urban or rural centers, to be reprehensible...and if as you say, the United States is dumping more money into public education than any other country, and getting worse results than any other notable western nation, Republican and Democrat alike, might want to reach across the aisle to find out why?
    The original bill had a total budget of two trillion dollars, so I don't think the money was only meant for the neediest.

    As for the reasons for worse results, that probably comes down to how the United States spends the money. Part of the problem may be the restrictions on penalizing bad apples, which makes it tougher for their classmates (who tend to come from similar backgrounds) to learn.


    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    Many of us do -- especially those of us "black kids" who witnessed the blatant inequalities both as a student and as a teacher in said districts.

    And there's no reason to keep "reaching across the aisle" when one specific party continually cuts funding, obstructs legislation, shows little to no concern for "minorities" and the poor, and continues to attempt to justify de facto segregation via both race and income level -- to put it simply, Republicans are just as backwards on education as they are on other science based issues such as climate change and medical care.

    Republicans will cut corporate taxes and increase miliitary spending even when the Pentagon and military leaders protest but won't do the same for schools despite numerous requests and strikes from teachers demanding better pay and thousands of students being failed by an inherently and systemically racist educational system.

    There's no reason to assume that Republicans operate in "good faith" on these issues when you take into their actions rather than their usual innacurate and/or misleading rhetoric -- as you point out, if the goal were equality then American schools would be funded in relatively equal measure and those areas most in need of aid would recieve more of it, not less.

    Judging by the facts -- and given the comparatively subpar education levels of many Republican states and regions -- it's clear to see that many prefer an uneducated (and divided/segregated) populace as it makes them easier to manipulate: it's no accident that many of those you see protesting increased educational spending and coronavirus saftey measures and falsely claiming that mail-in votes are rife with "voter fraud" and the like are Republican.

    If it seems to those in other countries that Americans are becoming less educated and informed as time goes on then look no further than the Republican party and the "leaders" they have elected (Bush Jr and Trump) over the last few decades as their grand intellectual capabilities and judgement skills are the clearest reflections of what Republicans seek in both domestic and global leadership.

    -----
    "FACT SHEET: Republican Budget Cuts Education"

    "The Republican conference agreement on the fiscal year 2016 budget resolution makes many cuts in support for education.

    Guts investments — The budget agreement maintains the post-sequester non-defense discretionary funding cap for 2016, slashing the 2016 funding level by $37.3 billion below the comparable President's request. But after 2016, the cuts get worse. Over ten years, the budget cuts non-defense funding by $496 billion below the cap levels, leading to a 21 percent loss of purchasing power by 2025. In addition to the cuts shown for education programs, the budget has another $575 billion of unallocated discretionary cuts that could fall on education programs or any other non-defense program.

    Effect on pre-K, elementary, and secondary education in 2016 – House Republicans have not yet produced their 2016 education funding bill but they have cut its allocation by $3.7 billion below last year's enacted level, and by $14.6 billion (8.7 percent) below the President's request. If cuts are spread proportionately under that allocation, the Administration estimates that the Republican funding bill will cut 46,000 children from Head Start, cut $1.3 billion from Title I, and cut $450 million from special education relative to the President's request.

    Increases student debt — Even though student loan debt already exceeds $1.3 trillion – more than the total of all credit card debt – the conference agreement on the budget guts current policy support for higher education by about $200 billion over ten years.

    Student loans – In total, the conference agreement cuts mandatory spending in the education function by almost as much as the House-passed budget. Although the agreement does not specify which higher education cuts it intends, the House budget made the following cuts:

    o Eliminated in-school subsidies for student loans for needy undergraduates. The Congressional Budget Office has estimated that this would add $3,800 to the debt of a student borrowing $23,000 in subsidized loans. Many students who get these subsidized loans also rely on Pell grants to pay for college. Eliminating subsidized loans cuts student support by $34 billion over ten years.

    o Eliminated public service loan forgiveness which forgives borrowers' remaining balance owed on Direct Loans after working full time in public service and making 10 years of on-time payments. Eliminating the program will cut about $10 billion in student loan debt relief designed to help graduates afford to work in public service, including as teachers, law enforcement, or in military service or other government employment.

    o Eliminated existing expansion of income-based repayment. This program generally caps the monthly repayment amount at 10 percent of the borrower's discretionary income for 20 years. Eliminating this program cuts about $16 billion from student debt relief efforts.

    Pell grants – Section 6209 of the conference agreement makes it the policy of the House to freeze the maximum Pell grant for the next ten years, erasing the already-enacted inflationary increases that will raise the maximum grant by $225 by 2017. Congress already offset the cost of this increase and of maintaining it thereafter. The House budget made clear that it intended to eliminate all the mandatory funding Congress has already enacted for Pell grants, which eliminates nearly $85 billion in Pell grant aid over the next ten years.

    College tax credits – The budget agreement lets the American Opportunity Tax Credit expire after next year, eliminating a $2,500 tax credit that helps more than 10 million low- and moderate-income students pay for college each year. Extending the tax credit costs $80 billion over ten years."


    https://budget.house.gov/fact-sheet/...cuts-education
    The problem isn't the amount of money spent on education.

    With the amount of money New York state spends on education, hiring a tutor for five kids at $100,000 an year would be a reduction in costs.

    https://twitter.com/webdevMason/stat...63179704754177

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Clinton's a rock star in the Democratic party, she been an intrinsic part of it for years and when she has been ran for president everyone who stands against her are overshadowed by her influence and power. She was making history in congress since she was the First Lady and been doing things in politics long before that. This isn't just a "foreign politician" it's like discovering Corbyn has secretly been idolising Ronald Reagan his whole life. There are many, many female politicians in politics all over the world who don't have Thatcher's track record. For example, Mary Robinson, Prime Minister of Ireland in 1990. You don't even have to look for politicians, there was Princess Diana.
    Hillary Clinton lost to a deeply flawed candidate, so I could see why someone isn't eager to emulate her.

    An elected official might not want to compare themselves to royalty. Mary Robinson isn't very well-known in the United States, so that isn't necessarily a comparison a politician would want to make.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  15. #1695
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    With the rise in racial crime the last few weeks where 2 black men were killed and police moved slow to respond. Or the justice system you would think Donald Trump would stand up and say something about it . Well...nope.

    Instead this terrible guy plans to focus on an Executive order on how twitter fact checked his bullshit tweets.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...twitter-285891
    There probably isn't rise in racial crime. It's been going on for a while, but it isn't worse than before.

    Trump did actually say something about it, a few hours before your post.

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...74767493148672

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesonAnders View Post
    Please let's not forget that all states were effectively hamstrung by the denial of any real crisis at the national executive level. There's only so much a state can do without the cooperation of the national government.
    Federalism gives states a lot of options.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuro no Shinigami View Post
    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

    The US states hit the hardest by the Covid

    1. New York
    2. New Jersey
    3. Illinois
    4. California
    5. Massachusetts
    6. Pennsylvania
    7. Texas
    8. Michigan
    9. Florida
    10. Maryland

    All of the ten top hardest hit states are some of the most populated states in America and have many urban heavily-populated cities (NYC, Chicago, Los Angeles, Boston, Baltimore, Philadelphia and Detroit)

    Most of them are Democratic states, although Maryland and Massachusetts have Republican governors. Those governors especially Cuomo have a lot to answer for this Covid response.
    Florida and Texas make the top ten because the populatons are so big.

    If you look at deaths per million, the numbers are better for red states.

    1. New York
    2. New Jersey
    3. Connecticut
    4. Massachusetts (blue state with Republican Governor)
    5. DC
    6. Rhode Island
    7. Louisiana (Trump state with Democratic Governor)
    8. Michigan (Trump state with Democratic Governor)
    9. Pennsylvania (Trump state with Democratic Governor)
    10. Illinois
    11. Maryland (blue state with Republican Governor)

    By that metric, California is also doing relatively well.

    I'll note that it's probably more about population density and luck than whether Democrats are in charge, but I can understand pushback from conservatives after months of speculation that their local policies are going to result in death and mayhem, when the worst-hit states aren't the red states.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

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