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  1. #13771
    The Undead One The Chou Lives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Outside of being a traitor and a war criminal as well as election felonies, enemy lists and a corrupt SOB, he was not that bad? BS, I was alive then, he was totally a piece of shit who screwed the country. Trump's racist strategy and Law and Order crap comes straight from Nixon.
    Just because Trump is worst doesn't redeem Nixon.
    I agree.

    You cannot say Nixon is good, he is bad. Trump is just worse.

  2. #13772
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Chou Lives View Post
    https://youtu.be/4aopK42g0aM

    The man who she waged war with, now she is sucking up too.

    It is not just the politicians, it’s everyone who wants to sell out.
    What Ailes and Fox did to Kelly was awful, she was still a FoxNews liar no better than the rest of them.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  3. #13773
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    Well, ClintonCare or whatever it was called had more to owe to Nixon's plan.

    ObamaCare had more to owe to RomneyCare. I often call it ObamneyCare to my far-right family.

    But I can see your point and say some of the general skeleton is there from the Nixon plan, but not much!


    Yeah ... he had a hand in National Service like Points of Light foundational settings, AmeriCorps ground work, and Peace Corps expansion.

    And to both of your points ...

    I find it really telling that people are more willing to say the good Nixon did over Trump. Trump has none of that to earn him any goodwill. And Nixon was a monster.
    They were friends too with Nixon joking about him going into politics. In the 80s.
    Last edited by ChangingStation; 10-23-2020 at 03:24 PM.

  4. #13774
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Outside of being a traitor and a war criminal as well as election felonies, enemy lists and a corrupt SOB, he was not that bad? BS, I was alive then, he was totally a piece of shit who screwed the country. Trump's racist strategy and Law and Order crap comes straight from Nixon.
    Just because Trump is worst doesn't redeem Nixon.
    None of us are saying that.

    We are saying Nixon had some things stick that were good.

    And Nixon was a monster.

    We are saying that is how much worse that makes Trump.

    He's like Jackson, Hoover, and Nixon rolled into one. Strike that, Trump is taking all the worst parts of nearly every POTUS and doing them in a speed run.

    And for the record, Johnson and Buchanan did FAR worse things than Nixon or Trump. I would even say Harding, Pierce, Tyler, Fillmore, and Harrison are in the same category as Trump.

    Donald J. Trump is well cemented into the place of being one of our 3 worst POTUS of all time.
    Last edited by BeastieRunner; 10-23-2020 at 03:28 PM.
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  5. #13775
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    If you made a Mt. Suckmore, who would you have?

    Mine right now is Andrew Johnson, James Buchanan, Donald Trump, and I dunno for the 4th ... either Harding, Pierce, or Hoover.

    And if Mount Rushmore was made now, who would you go with?

    I would go with Lincoln, Teddy, Reagan, and Obama.

    I know I will get flack for those choices.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  6. #13776
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    The bar can always go lower. People in the past thought Eisenhower, Nixon, Reagan and Bush Jr were some of the worst presidents too. Trump outdid Bush who had Katrina and the Iraq War. I am sure the GOP can trot out someone even worse especially since they are doubling down on the White Nationalism.

  7. #13777
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Wayne View Post
    The bar can always go lower. People in the past thought Eisenhower, Nixon, Reagan and Bush Jr were some of the worst presidents too. Trump outdid Bush who had Katrina and the Iraq War. I am sure the GOP can trot out someone even worse especially since they are doubling down on the White Nationalism.
    If Trump loses, I wouldn't be surprised if David Duke makes the next debate table.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  8. #13778
    The Undead One The Chou Lives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    If you made a Mt. Suckmore, who would you have?

    Mine right now is Andrew Johnson, James Buchanan, Donald Trump, and I dunno for the 4th ... either Harding, Pierce, or Hoover.

    And if Mount Rushmore was made now, who would you go with?

    I would go with Lincoln, Teddy, Reagan, and Obama.

    I know I will get flack for those choices.
    I agree with that.

    I mean a second Mt Rushmore maybe cool for modern presidents but yeah could see why Washington becreplaced. The man honestly had no political experience ( general/farmer tycoon) but. He was smart enough to let his staff do all the damn government stuff for him while he was a status symbol.

    Jefferson did write our important papers and gave us many states as president. Yeah I think Obsma would get the most flank as he is the most recent. Reagan was not perfect either but he did great things, many great things ( That the intelligent Trumpers if you call them that, hate Reagan for being Liberterain/Neo Liberal. Those guys are scary, wanting shit prior to Reagan.) *

    *= Those guys want to triple down on White Nationalism.
    Last edited by The Chou Lives; 10-23-2020 at 03:45 PM.

  9. #13779
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    If you made a Mt. Suckmore, who would you have?

    Mine right now is Andrew Johnson, James Buchanan, Donald Trump, and I dunno for the 4th ... either Harding, Pierce, or Hoover.

    And if Mount Rushmore was made now, who would you go with?

    I would go with Lincoln, Teddy, Reagan, and Obama.

    I know I will get flack for those choices.
    For Mt. Suckmore I'd have Carter, Gerald Ford, Trump and Hoover. The people least well equipped to be President or had it at the worst possible moments.

    Carter being the only one I'm sympathetic towards (him more than redeeming himself afterwards helped.)

  10. #13780
    The Undead One The Chou Lives's Avatar
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    https://youtu.be/UQATv9eEBxU



    https://youtu.be/iiAASuHoKAU

    Making deals and saying Toho e calls made to people after he wins. The same trying to rig the election.

    And he is the president, saying only stupid people follow the law.

    Yeah, he’s on Mt Suckmore.

  11. #13781

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Chou Lives View Post
    I agree.

    You cannot say Nixon is good, he is bad. Trump is just worse.
    What everyone is looking for in this Nixon/Trump comparison is this...

    Both are corrupt. Nixon, however, was highly competent, with the exception of his ego getting far enough out of control to have a Watergate break-in, and a press and Congress with enough backbone to not let him get away with it.

    The corruption and malevolence of the Trump administration has been undone by its incompetence across the board, however, he has the benefit of a press who were slow to realize how he manipulated them, a Fox News to prop him up where the rest wouldn't, and a Republican Party with no spine whatsoever to stand up to him.

    That's the difference.
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  12. #13782

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChangingStation View Post
    For Mt. Suckmore I'd have Carter, Gerald Ford, Trump and Hoover. The people least well equipped to be President or had it at the worst possible moments.

    Carter being the only one I'm sympathetic towards (him more than redeeming himself afterwards helped.)
    I'd go Trump, Hoover, Johnson, Harding. If I got a fifth, James Buchanan because he helped set the stage for the Confederacy. Johnson for not doing enough to put it to bed permanently.
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  13. #13783
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    Quote Originally Posted by worstblogever View Post
    What everyone is looking for in this Nixon/Trump comparison is this...

    Both are corrupt. Nixon, however, was highly competent, with the exception of his ego getting far enough out of control to have a Watergate break-in, and a press and Congress with enough backbone to not let him get away with it.

    The corruption and malevolence of the Trump administration has been undone by its incompetence across the board, however, he has the benefit of a press who were slow to realize how he manipulated them, a Fox News to prop him up where the rest wouldn't, and a Republican Party with no spine whatsoever to stand up to him.

    That's the difference.
    Don't forget Nixon's Paranoia. Though I'd love for it to turn out Trump has records of all his crimes.
    Last edited by ChangingStation; 10-23-2020 at 04:15 PM.

  14. #13784

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChangingStation View Post
    Don't forget Nixon's Paranoia. Though I'd love for it to turn out Trump has records of all his crimes.
    No paper shredders are going to save a Trump administration in the digital era. Be ready for s*** to come off of the bin Laden server about corruption in foreign policy.
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  15. #13785
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Mount Rushmore was a trashy monument built on land stolen from the Sioux. The thing to do is give the land back to the Sioux, not build a crappy monument or add or subtract, and so validate that theft.

    Ranking Presidents is a mug's game. Conventionally Washington, Lincoln, FDR are seen as America's Top 3. I personally rank Lincoln as the greatest president because he's a complete figure in terms of being a great intellectual, wonderful and innovative political thinker, master politician, a brilliant war leader who was a quick study and a quick master of strategy, and all things considered, a genuinely decent (not perfect or consitently good, mind you) human being, even accounting for the standards of time. Someone with a capacity for change and growth. He's a complete figure. So the complete measure of Lincoln -- personal goodness and human decency, mastery in politics, military strategy, intellect -- is a good gauge to evaluate presidents. Washington and FDR by contrast aren't as complete figures. Washington wasn't a good general, nor was he a great intellectual and I certainly don't think he was a good human being (it's really impossible for a slaveowner to be considered one). FDR great war leader and commander in chief, brilliant politician, and had his moments as a thinker, but he was also incredibly manipulative and crafty on a personal level, and of course capricious and inconsistent when it came to defending Jews, and racist to Japanese-Americans...so he fails in terms of personal goodness.

    Of course you can have presidents who are consequential like Eisenhower who were otherwise mediocre. Eisenhower appointed Warren to the SCOTUS which was the most consequential judicial appointment of the 20th Century, and he enforced Brown v. Board of Education, he created DARPA (and so all the stuff that came from that, including the internet, is his legacy), America's highway system, and he sent troops to South Vietnam. In a large sense his presidency was consequential to the present day and that the generation of Presidents after him (JFK-LBJ-Nixon) merely dealt with or expanded on the fallout of his policies and decisions. I tend to think of JFK--LBJ--Nixon as a single entangled era of Presidency because policy wise and ideology and personality wise there's so much continuity across their administrations even if there's political and personal differences galore between them...and all of them belonged roughly to the same generation (Nixon and JFK certainly, Johnson was older than them).

    In general most presidents are mediocre and assessing them is hard. Woodrow Wilson was seen as a great president for a long time but in the last decade, deservedly, his estimation has greatly lowered. Theodore Roosevelt is on Mt. Rushmore but aside from his larger than life personality, his legacy isn't as pressing (in either a good or bad sense) to current America as others are.

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