All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[CaptainEurope]

Of course they are getting off easy. They aren't you or me. But it still says guilty on their record so that's at least something. But all these deals should have come with the additional term that they can never practice law or be involved in politics ever again too.

They're not you and me, but Trump and Giuliani aren't the kinds of people you and me might help to commit crimes, either. These are historical trials. The convictions of the top criminals must be air tight.

[Dalak]

US abortion rates rise post-Roe amid deep divide in state-by-state access

Who would have thought that a ban on abortions doesn't actually stop them? If only people had repeatedly pointed it out before all of the unnecessary suffering and cruelty.

As many have pointed out before me: The Cruelty is the point.

He’s deliberately framing it that way to open the door for justification of mass bombing of civilians, an unsettling percentage of whom are women and children.
I think the reality people are dancing around trying to not admit is that if Israel is ever going to be safe from terrorist attacks they’ll have to permanently annihilate the Palestinian people. People like the author of that paper are paving the road to that end point.

He isn't the only one.

Israel has a long way to go before it's on the level of Hamas. Saying there's a debate about this is misleading, because one side is ignorant and wrong.

Indiscriminate bombing of civilian populations is still a step up from targeting civilians. This isn't an argument about semantics.

Allies of Palestine should figure out how to defeat Hamas as soon as possible. Somehow Hamas got the impression that they will benefit from rape and beheadings, and at the moment Israel's detractors are backing up that view. They have strategies that put Palestinian civilians in danger, and make their lives worse. Everyone in the civilized world should be united in the desire for every member of Hamas to be in a body bag or a prison cell.

You are defending the indiscriminate bombing of civilians . . . please tell me how many more do indiscriminate bombings have to kill & maim before they become "as bad" as deliberately targeting civilians? If there is no answer to that question which is acceptable morally, that doesn't make the question loaded because you've made asking it necessary.

I don't think anyone on this forum has argued that Hamas should be left in control of Gaza when things are said and done, so I don't see how they are benefiting from a potential cease fire if legitimate efforts are spent to get civilians out of the war zone following any cease fire.

Denazification is relevant as an example of a defeated people forced to reckon with the bad things they did.

There are problems when groups don't do that, like the southern states sticking with the mythology of the lost cause.

The Russians use it as bullshit pretext to murder Ukrainians, but the concept is still useful. Frankly, Russia is going to need something similar should somebody reasonable ever get a hold of power.

I don't think denazification should happen to far-right politics across the globe, but most of them are not on that level. Hamas and Russia are the main exceptions at failing to meet what you describe (and I agree) as a very low bar.

First: There are still avowed Nazis (Neo, Skinhead, etc), Holocaust Deniers, and those who just proudly collect their memorabilia to bring out at parties and/or protests - Denazification failed. Germany has moved past it's horrific past, but that doesn't mean that Denazification is any sort of success for society-at-large. Nor do I think that "Dehamasification" will do anything to prevent the aggression of Anti-Israel terrorists across the globe who aren't in Gaza even if it was carried out flawlessly with Palestinian civilians treated in the best way I can imagine. I hesitate to even get into what this process would involve with Russia and who would enforce it upon the Russian people.

Second: You have denied the results of far-right politics upon the GoP, so it makes sense you would deny it's impact on Global politics considering the uptick in fascists being elected and Anti-LGBT/Anti-Immigrant Bigotry across the board. There are many conservatives at GoP-related rallies and so on with literal Nazi memorabilia, tattoos, and similar Confederate-related examples. They have literally had a riot incited by a then-sitting President to try and avoid losing a legal election, have had multiple elected Republicans try to publicly put their thumbs on the scales of Justice in regards to Trump and these rioters as well as other conservatives, and they are having their members currently encourage threats against other GoP members as pointed out in this thread because they surprisingly can't show any unity now that it matters.

Emmer out already. Trump trashed him he doesn't have the votes

Trump, which we're supposed to believe is the walking answer to Biden's brain at least already having more than one foot in the grave, said onstage to supporters he just picked up that you spell us as US, which was genius.

I'd like to think Jordan Peele read this and his eyes rolled all the way back into his skull hard enough to go around it and roll back in place.

My case in point.

Bombing innocent Palestinian civilians -- including children -- is an atrocity as well.



It is easy to make the argument that Hamas is the most problematic element in this equation but one should not justify the deaths of innocents on said basis.

People become desperate in the face of continued oppression -- the solution is to address the injustice rather than to use violence to continue unjust oppression.

I still don't see where anyone here is calling for Hamas to be left in power regardless of how things turn out here. A few think Netanyahu & the Israeli Government are as bad as Hamas, but most acknowledge that Terrorists are worse. I believe the hang up is how people won't accept that the Israeli response can do no wrong and/or excuse any excesses in that response.

The comparison is helpful to make it obvious who the bad guys are, as well as who's on their side.

But how do we ensure a new government in Palestine so that these attacks don't happen again, and so that the people are better taken care of, along with the arrests of every living Hamas member?

I've responded to the bolded view before:

People want to see a clearly gleaming good guy to face the clearly evil terrorists that Hamas are, but we don't get that because this is reality - Hamas is that bad, but the Israeli government isn't the gleaming moral crusader wholly in the right here, no more than the US post-9/11. Whether one is preferable to the other isn't the point here, as there's no vote or speech or petition that we people can make which will affect what Israel chooses to do. The stories shared here show that the people of Israel aren't happy with Netanyahu, so why should we be?

Additionally: We can do nothing. No one outside of Israel can actually do anything in this case, and Israeli voters are the only ones that I think the Israeli government cares about who will take any action to hold them accountable for the level of their response (And any perceived or actual responsibility in exacerbating the case). Unless there is incontrovertible proof of an Israeli war crime that itself is of a level that can't be balanced by any "But Hamas are Terrorists!" justification, the world isn't going to turn on Israel in the short-term. If this drags on long enough I think people will start to speak out, but that's assuming way too many things stay as-is and there are far too many variables to this complicated equation to get into anything other than generalities at this stage.

They're not you and me, but Trump and Giuliani aren't the kinds of people you and me might help to commit crimes, either. These are historical trials. The convictions of the top criminals must be air tight.

Agreed. These people need to be found Guilty and have stiff sentences if only for the reason to discourage behavior like this in others.

[Dalak]

I'm on vacation right now, so I'm fairly unplugged all day until I get back to the hotel. So this morning when I woke up, Emmer was going to be voted on to become Speaker. 6 hours later, Emmer is out, Mike Johnson has been selected to be voted on tomorrow, and meanwhile McCarthy is floating a plan to reinstall him as Speaker with Gym Jordan as the 'Assistant House Speaker', which seems on par for him. Gym would actually be Speaker, and McCarthy would make himself someone else's b*tch.

The man just keeps finding new ways to publicly debase himself.
It must be a fetish at this point.

At least John Boehner had the good sense to retire when it became clear to him that the inmates had taken over the GOP asylum.

5 things to know about Mike Johnson, the GOP’s latest House speaker nominee

None of this is the fault of anyone but the Republicans involved, and the voters who chose to vote for people who's goal is to undermine the US Gov't while hinting that only they can fix it.

Of course they are getting off easy. They aren't you or me. But it still says guilty on their record so that's at least something. But all these deals should have come with the additional term that they can never practice law or be involved in politics ever again too.

I think a law should be passed in order to make a restriction upon being involved in any similar behavior in the future for any Guilty plea in cases similar to this, and yes I can see how it could be abused but that could be addressed when writing it by much better legal minds than mine.

They're not you and me, but Trump and Giuliani aren't the kinds of people you and me might help to commit crimes, either. These are historical trials. The convictions of the top criminals must be air tight.

Agreed. These people need to be found Guilty with stiff sentences if for no other reason than to dissuade this sort of behavior in the future. No one rational should be able to argue with that.

[Tami]

A Close Look at Some Key Evidence in the Gaza Hospital Blast

The video shows a projectile streaking through the darkened skies over Gaza and exploding in the air. Seconds later, another explosion is seen on the ground.

The footage has become a widely cited piece of evidence as Israeli and American officials have made the case that an errant Palestinian rocket malfunctioned in the sky, fell to the ground and caused a deadly explosion at Al-Ahli Arab Hospital in Gaza City.

But a detailed visual analysis by The New York Times concludes that the video clip — taken from an Al Jazeera television camera livestreaming on the night of Oct. 17 — shows something else. The missile seen in the video is most likely not what caused the explosion at the hospital. It actually detonated in the sky roughly two miles away, The Times found, and is an unrelated aspect of the fighting that unfolded over the Israeli-Gaza border that night.

The Times’s finding does not answer what actually did cause the Al-Ahli Arab Hospital blast, or who is responsible. The contention by Israeli and American intelligence agencies that a failed Palestinian rocket launch is to blame remains plausible. But the Times analysis does cast doubt on one of the most-publicized pieces of evidence that Israeli officials have used to make their case and complicates the straightforward narrative they have put forth.

Basically the Times is saying that the video 'evidence' isn't very useful in determining what caused the blast. It doesn't refute the current version of events stated by the US and Israel, just saying that there is no real proof either way.

[Jack Dracula]

A Close Look at Some Key Evidence in the Gaza Hospital Blast





Basically the Times is saying that the video 'evidence' isn't very useful in determining what caused the blast. It doesn't refute the current version of events stated by the US and Israel, just saying that there is no real proof either way.

I think as long as the internet exists there will always be some conjecture as to who and what caused the explosion.

[Tami]

I think as long as the internet exists there will always be some conjecture as to who and what caused the explosion.

Under different circumstances forensic professionals would go in to the site and find evidence as to what really happened. Currently I doubt that would happen.

[Jack Dracula]

Under different circumstances forensic professionals would go in to the site and find evidence as to what really happened. Currently I doubt that would happen.

Even if they’d been able to get in there right away there’d still be claims the evidence was fake. It’s just the way of things. Too many people are invested in one side or the other.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Got an alert that Rep. Mike Johnson got 220 votes to become the new Speaker of the House. Didn’t think the moderates in the GQP would get behind a known Trumper, but then, I guess party tribalism overrode common decency.

[Powerboy]

He’s deliberately framing it that way to open the door for justification of mass bombing of civilians, an unsettling percentage of whom are women and children.
I think the reality people are dancing around trying to not admit is that if Israel is ever going to be safe from terrorist attacks they’ll have to permanently annihilate the Palestinian people. People like the author of that paper are paving the road to that end point.

As someone already said, he's not the only one. The entire Republican talking points and talk show hosts seem to be setting it up to justify doing that.

While there really is antisemitism involved in some cases, every attempt to point out the real situation and indiscriminate taking of Palestinian lives results in accusations of antisemitism and being pro-terrorist.

Yes. It has gone too far and Hamas has to be obliterated. But my suspicion is that Netanyahu and his ultra- right wing government want to use this as an excuse for the genocide of the Palestinians or as close to that as he thinks he can possibly get away with.

[Dalak]

A Close Look at Some Key Evidence in the Gaza Hospital Blast

Basically the Times is saying that the video 'evidence' isn't very useful in determining what caused the blast. It doesn't refute the current version of events stated by the US and Israel, just saying that there is no real proof either way.

I think as long as the internet exists there will always be some conjecture as to who and what caused the explosion.

Under different circumstances forensic professionals would go in to the site and find evidence as to what really happened. Currently I doubt that would happen.

Even if they’d been able to get in there right away there’d still be claims the evidence was fake. It’s just the way of things. Too many people are invested in one side or the other.

If this is the primary evidence that Israel is using to say that their ordinance didn't hit the hospital, then it should be questioned. We can easily question the word of Hamas considering their motives (Again: Terrorists) but if the only counterargument is using faulty data to support it, it leaves us with a "He Said-She Said" situation until more evidence comes to light. If no more comes to light this is going to make things worse than evidence that Israel did it outright because in that situation there might have been some sort of recognition of how the attacks are affecting the civilians and maybe things would be stepped down a notch. Instead we will continue to have tribalistic responses claiming their side is right and the other wrong as Chad described, leading to more negative feelings all around.

Got an alert that Rep. Mike Johnson got 220 votes to become the new Speaker of the House. Didn’t think the moderates in the GQP would get behind a known Trumper, but then, I guess party tribalism overrode common decency.

Moderate Conservatives will rationalize and/or excuse whatever they need to when the time comes to deny Democrats a win or to not "Give the Democrats what they want" as we've seen time after time.

E:

As someone already said, he's not the only one. The entire Republican talking points and talk show hosts seem to be setting it up to justify doing that.

While there really is antisemitism involved in some cases, every attempt to point out the real situation and indiscriminate taking of Palestinian lives results in accusations of antisemitism and being pro-terrorist.

Yes. It has gone too far and Hamas has to be obliterated. But my suspicion is that Netanyahu and his ultra- right wing government want to use this as an excuse for the genocide of the Palestinians or as close to that as he thinks he can possibly get away with.

This is eerily similar to the conservative reaction to any questioning of Dubyah after 9/11, which they of course abandoned as soon as a black man was elected.

[InformationGeek]

I think I'm most surprised here is that I don't think WBE has actually covered this guy before. I checked his tumblr archive but nothing was coming up. Well, time to shoot him up the list.

[Powerboy]

This was impressive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x49sHFMzpFc

[Powerboy]

This is eerily similar to the conservative reaction to any questioning of Dubyah after 9/11, which they of course abandoned as soon as a black man was elected.

It's also very telling and very frightening that, if you go back to the late 1990s or the first few years of the 21st century, Netanyahu was a frequent guest on talk shows trying to make his case against any help or improvements for the Palestinians on the grounds that they were people with a prehistoric mentality that should never have access to and the ability to study nuclear power. It was mostly on Fox News and even specifically with Sean Hannity, the biggest right wing mental case even by Fox standards.

[achilles]

Well, I guess they finally found someone who could get the job. That was a silly display of idiocy if ever I saw one. Do they even know what sort of image they're projecting with that behavior?

[Tami]

Well, I guess they finally found someone who could get the job. That was a silly display of idiocy if ever I saw one. Do they even know what sort of image they're projecting with that behavior?

Do they even know what kind of image they are projecting with their choice?