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  1. #7441
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    Those are two different things. Harris can be preferred amongst Democratic voters overall but also largely overlap with people who overwhelmingly are supporting Biden anyways (Biden won the plurality of Democratic voters). Warren can have less enthusiasm as Harris overall but she has far more in the places Biden and Harris lack and overall adds more to the ticket. There where the data suggests Warren has the advantage. She hits the places Biden and Harris canít.


    Itís like this, Biden won the primary. That would suggest amongst all the candidates he was the strongest overall. So theoretically if you had a clone of Biden he would be stronger independently than any other primary candidates. But if you put Biden and a clone of Biden on a Presidential ticket it actually has zero impact because itís just a complete overlap.

    Thereís a lot of data to suggest that Warren was popular with left wing progressives (who may have chosen Bernie over her, but still found her more palatable to other options) and that she was also extremely popular with more modern suburban female Democrats who were not satisfied with Biden and were looking for alternatives.

    So the data (which has been consistent) implies that Warren would smooth things over with progressives and moderates who werenít all in on Biden but would be more amenable to having someone they did have affinity for on the ticket.

    While wherever Harris is strong, itís where Biden already is strong anyways, so it just becomes a wasted opportunity to strengthen a ticket.

    And most polling data and anecdotes from sources in the Biden campaign say that is the case and he is very data driven by this.
    I voted for Warren in the primaries but all I care about right now is beating Trump. Biden already has a big lead in the polls, so he just needs to make a safe ďdo no harmĒ VP pick. The last thing he needs to do is pick someone who will shake things up or give Trump ammo and a way to stir up fear in his base (basically their fuel). I do love Liz but I worry she would galvanize Trump as heís been building her up as this socialist boogeyman for years. Not to mention the Pocahontas crap which heís been using to brand her as a liar. I worry it will become another ďbut her emailsĒ thing.

    Balancing out the ticket shouldnít be a concern at the moment. It may sound like a total cop-out of my liberal ideals but I just want Biden to choose someone who wonít mess up his chances in the swing states. If thatís another moderate Democrat than so be it. If they were tied or Biden was only up by a point or two and adding a more left leaning VP could help him win then Iíd be all for it. Florida, Michigan, and Pennsylvania are all that matters.

    I would love to see Biden pick a VP who is a POC, but again beating Trump who is easily one of the biggest threats in the history of our democracy is the priority. Although some polls show that picking an African American VP would help.

    Majority of Millennial, Gen Z, and female voters in key swing states say itís important for Biden to pick a black woman as running mate
    Last edited by Robotman; 08-09-2020 at 02:12 PM.

  2. #7442
    Ninpuu - Shinobi Change! Striderblack01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The no face guy View Post
    Sure but you don't have to bold my comments, I can recall what I said, I don't need assistance.

    There was a good investigative article a while back during the feud between Warren and Sanders. It touched on various issues, unfortunately I am getting ready to go out the door for vacation, so you'll have to wait until I return. (I don't want to spend my vacation time on CBR)

    In the meantime if you do your own digging I'm sure you'll come to your own conclusion, which may be similar or different than mine, cheers.
    More people than just us read these convos.

    Have a good (and safe) vacay! Cheers!
    Last edited by Striderblack01; 08-09-2020 at 02:07 PM.
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  3. #7443
    Invincible Jersey Girl Tami's Avatar
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    “I’m Not a Racist” Says Republican Politician Who Repeatedly Uses N-word to Discuss Black Lives Matter

    Tom Eckerle—a Republican road commissioner for Leelanau County, Michigan—is reportedly resigning after political pressure for repeatedly using the n-word, an anti-Black racist slur, to describe racial justice protestors.

    Before a meeting of the road commission started last Tuesday, Eckerle was asked by a commission member why he wasn’t wearing a mask. He responded, “Well this whole thing is because of them (n-words) down in Detroit.”

    When Bob Joyce, the commission’s chair, told Eckerle he couldn’t say that, Eckerle said, “I can say anything I want. Black Lives Matter has everything to do with taking the country away from us.”

    Let’s be clear: the social aims listed on the Black Live Matters (BLM) website do not mention white people. According to its website, the BLM movement seeks to unite Black communities worldwide to oppose state-sanctioned violence and anti-Black racism while also create creating healing, empathetic communities free from prejudice.
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  4. #7444
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    I don't think so. If the Dems take power, undoing the absurd Trump tax cuts is a top priority.
    Card check was a top priority.

    While it would be great if they were going to actually do what they say, things like Card Check point to that them saying it is a "Top Priority..." isn't worth a whole lot.

  5. #7445
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    I voted for Warren in the primaries but all I care about right now is beating Trump. Biden already has a big lead in the polls, so he just needs to make a safe “do no harm” VP pick. The last thing he needs to do is pick someone who will shake things up or give Trump ammo and a way to stir up fear in his base (basically their fuel). I do love Liz but I worry she would galvanize Trump as he’s been building her up as this socialist boogeyman for years. Not to mention the Pocahontas crap which he’s been using to brand her as a liar. I worry it will become another “but her emails” thing.

    Balancing out the ticket shouldn’t be a concern at the moment. It may sound like a total cop-out of my liberal ideals but I just want Biden to choose someone who won’t mess up his chances in the swing states. If that’s another moderate Democrat than so be it. If they were tied or Biden was only up by a point or two and adding a more left leaning VP could help him win then I’d be all for it. Florida, Michigan, and Pennsylvania are all that matters.

    I would love to see Biden pick a VP who is a POC, but again beating Trump who is easily one of the biggest threats in the history of our democracy is the priority. Although some polls show that picking an African American VP would help.

    Majority of Millennial, Gen Z, and female voters in key swing states say it’s important for Biden to pick a black woman as running mate
    Yeah I care about winning too, that’s why I’m going with the data that Warren consistently adds more strength to the the ticket and increases the likelihood that the most people vote for Trump. I don’t particularly want either because I prefer them as Senators if you must know and I think Warren is going to do more as a Senator and she’ll be a nothing VP who is just there to pacify people on the left and then her career will flame out. But the data is clear on who adds more to the ticket.

    You can site polls of what people prefer, but there is no genetic ideal female African American VP candidate. There’s just real people who you have to pick strengths and flaws of all. If you want the pick of the people being considered that adds the most, we know who does. The safest non controversial pick of the bunch is probably Duckworth because she’s hardest to attack. Bass is who Congress generally supports so probably her next. Harris will get attacked by BLM supporters instantly and Warren will get attacked by Republicans for the Native American thing. Then Rice and Bass are kinda the least known and offensive but check box

  6. #7446
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    Yeah I care about winning too, that’s why I’m going with the data that Warren consistently adds more strength to the the ticket and increases the likelihood that the most people vote for Trump. I don’t particularly want either because I prefer them as Senators if you must know and I think Warren is going to do more as a Senator and she’ll be a nothing VP who is just there to pacify people on the left and then her career will flame out. But the data is clear on who adds more to the ticket.

    You can site polls of what people prefer, but there is no genetic ideal female African American VP candidate. There’s just real people who you have to pick strengths and flaws of all. If you want the pick of the people being considered that adds the most, we know who does. The safest non controversial pick of the bunch is probably Duckworth because she’s hardest to attack. Bass is who Congress generally supports so probably her next. Harris will get attacked by BLM supporters instantly and Warren will get attacked by Republicans for the Native American thing. Then Rice and Bass are kinda the least known and offensive but check box
    Biden did consistently outperform Warren in polls, so there does seem to be a relevant group of voters who would support Biden over Trump but not necessarily Warren.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...251.html#polls
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...247.html#polls
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  7. #7447
    Fighting Injustice on CBR SUPERECWFAN1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    Twitter Link

    Uh, huh?

    Well this is fine then. Because if this is allowed , Republicans will be paid back BIG TIME if a Democrat decides , ya know what...FUCK YOU ...EXECUTIVE ORDER ...TAXES ARE RAISED. Because he didn't want the bickering etc. I will fully enjoy watching Republicans explode .
    "The story so far: As usual, Ginger and I are engaged in our quest to find out what the hell is going on and save humanity from my nemesis, some bastard who is presumably responsible." - Sir Digby Chicken Caesar.

  8. #7448
    Extraordinary Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    So wait. This piece of work refers to Black people in Detroit with the N-word, but he claims he's not racist? Paging WBE!
    Watching television is not an activity.

  9. #7449
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    “I’m Not a Racist” Says Republican Politician Who Repeatedly Uses N-word to Discuss Black Lives Matter
    "When Bob Joyce, the commission’s chair, told Eckerle he couldn’t say that, Eckerle said, “I can say anything I want. Black Lives Matter has everything to do with taking the country away from us.”
    They keep saying the quiet part out loud.

    You know what white privileged is? It's seeing all of these people get caught on camera saying and doing racist things, and suffering the consequences for it- but still going out and doing or saying racist things on camera and think that YOU will get away with it.

  10. #7450
    Invincible Jersey Girl Tami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    They keep saying the quiet part out loud.

    You know what white privileged is? It's seeing all of these people get caught on camera saying and doing racist things, and suffering the consequences for it- but still going out and doing or saying racist things on camera and think that YOU will get away with it.
    Sometimes I think it's less, that they ever consider if they will get away with it or not, as much as they think they should get away with it. It's like their Id is switched on full power, and they have no concept of morality or civility or even common sense.

    People like that are like spoiled children who say and do whatever they want and expect to get away with it because they always have because their parents always have because their grandparents always have. It's part of their 'entitlement', they are entitled to say and act any way they want. When confronted with a bigger reality than the small one they grew up in, they claim that they are not racist, that what they are doing is normal and acceptable.

    They can't accept that the world they grew up in isn't the same world everyone else is living in, and worse that their world isn't reality in the broad sense of the word. They grew up in a bubble, and they can't move past that.
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  11. #7451
    Spectacular Member Kuro no Shinigami's Avatar
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    US Health and Human Services Secretary Visits Taiwan

    U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar arrived in Taiwan Sunday, leading a U.S. delegation for a three-day visit during which he will meet President Tsai Ing-wen.

    This is the highest-level visit by an American official since the break in diplomatic relations between Washington and Taipei in 1979.

    The visit comes as relations between the United States and China have plunged to historic lows.

    China objects to official contact between the U.S. and Taiwan, which it claims as its own territory, while the Taiwanese president has strongly advocated Taiwan’s recognition as a sovereign nation.

    Beijing has strongly and repeatedly objected to recognition of self-ruled Taiwan and has vowed to seize the island by force if necessary.

    Last week, China described Azar's visit as a threat to "peace and stability," while its defense minister warned against “dangerous moves” by Washington.

    Washington has said the Taiwan trip is an opportunity to learn from the island's success story in the fight against the coronavirus pandemic and to acknowledge its progressive values.

    "This trip is a recognition of Taiwan's success in combating COVID-19 and a testament to the shared beliefs that open and democratic societies are best equipped to combating disease threats like COVID-19," a Health and Human Services official said to reporters before the trip.

    Taiwan has recorded fewer than 500 COVID-19 cases and only seven deaths.
    https://thediplomat.com/2020/08/us-h...evel-exchange/

    Azar’s trip to Taiwan will mark the first visit by a Cabinet-level U.S. official since 2014, when Environmental Protection Agency administrator Gina McCarthy visited the country.

    If there is a nation that the US government should learn how to combat the covid-19 pandemic from, it is Taiwan. The US government should have paid attention to Taiwan's success in containing the covid-19 outbreak months ago. But even if they did learn anything, they are too ineffective and not bold enough to do anything to slow down or halt the outbreak.

  12. #7452
    Extraordinary Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    When you're used to having the whole pie and patting yourself on the back for giving "those people" a few crumbs, you can't understand why "those people" aren't satisfied with their crumbs, even if all they want is a thin slice of the pie and you'll still have 95% of the pie.
    Watching television is not an activity.

  13. #7453
    Astonishing Member Darkspellmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuro no Shinigami View Post
    US Health and Human Services Secretary Visits Taiwan



    https://thediplomat.com/2020/08/us-h...evel-exchange/




    If there is a nation that the US government should learn how to combat the covid-19 pandemic from, it is Taiwan. The US government should have paid attention to Taiwan's success in containing the covid-19 outbreak months ago. But even if they did learn anything, they are too ineffective and not bold enough to do anything to slow down or halt the outbreak.
    Problem is that they won't, or those that will won't say things out of fear of the Orange menace removing them.

    This also brings up the fact that the CCP looks to be setting up for Xi to be in charge till 2035 or longer.

  14. #7454
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Biden did consistently outperform Warren in polls, so there does seem to be a relevant group of voters who would support Biden over Trump but not necessarily Warren.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...251.html#polls
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...247.html#polls

    Polls don’t work like that when you are constructing a ticket. The question is are there people who are less likely to vote for Biden if he’s on a ticket with Warren vs anybody else vs what she brings vs anybody else. The fact is Warren performed better with moderates who for whatever reason didn’t want Biden and progressives who were never going to be enthusiastic about Biden, that’s what she brings that Biden doesn’t have locked down. Which is why most polling reflects just when you add her to a ticket, the ticket does better

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/eliza...b6d376358ca3b6

    That’s April

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...-for-vp-285659

    That’s late May

    https://prospect.org/politics/poll-s...t-than-harris/

    That’s a couple weeks ago.


    The polling is very clear and consistent that of the names circulated, Warren makes the biggest positive difference with voters who aren’t all in on Biden and adds the most positive impact.

    I’m not saying that if you polled all Democrats that more wouldn’t prefer Harris. But I am saying that Harris being on the ticket doesn’t really bring anybody that Biden doesn’t already have and the negatives for those people if you flip her for Warren are next to non existent and you get a bunch of people Harris can’t reach.

    So if it’s purely about winning, she’s the easiest candidate to pick. Which is why I strongly feel that Biden’s dragged this out so long because I think him and his team really do think she locks the race up for him but there’s pressure to not go with her amongst some that helped him get there and that’s the balancing act right now of whether to pay favors or go with the data.

  15. #7455
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    Polls don’t work like that when you are constructing a ticket. The question is are there people who are less likely to vote for Biden if he’s on a ticket with Warren vs anybody else vs what she brings vs anybody else. The fact is Warren performed better with moderates who for whatever reason didn’t want Biden and progressives who were never going to be enthusiastic about Biden, that’s what she brings that Biden doesn’t have locked down. Which is why most polling reflects just when you add her to a ticket, the ticket does better

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/eliza...b6d376358ca3b6

    That’s April

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...-for-vp-285659

    That’s late May

    https://prospect.org/politics/poll-s...t-than-harris/

    That’s a couple weeks ago.


    The polling is very clear and consistent that of the names circulated, Warren makes the biggest positive difference with voters who aren’t all in on Biden and adds the most positive impact.

    I’m not saying that if you polled all Democrats that more wouldn’t prefer Harris. But I am saying that Harris being on the ticket doesn’t really bring anybody that Biden doesn’t already have and the negatives for those people if you flip her for Warren are next to non existent and you get a bunch of people Harris can’t reach.

    So if it’s purely about winning, she’s the easiest candidate to pick. Which is why I strongly feel that Biden’s dragged this out so long because I think him and his team really do think she locks the race up for him but there’s pressure to not go with her amongst some that helped him get there and that’s the balancing act right now of whether to pay favors or go with the data.
    The polls aren't that clear-cut.

    Some of the polls show Warren as the top choice, but it's only among 22 percent, or at one point, 13 percent.

    Now comes a new poll from Data for Progress and YouGov that blows that conventional wisdom to hell. It’s very good news for Warren. And the deeper you drill down, the better news it is.

    The poll asked uncommitted voters and voters in battleground states a series of questions.

    In battleground states, among independent voters Warren is ranked best on the economy by 22 percent of voters, compared to 7 percent for Harris. She also comes out on top in terms of who’d be best at dealing with the coronavirus.

    Among independent voters, the poll also asked who would be best at taking over as president if something happened to Joe Biden. Warren also came in first with 13 percent to Harris’s 7 percent.
    https://prospect.org/politics/poll-s...t-than-harris/
    https://www.dataforprogress.org/memo...f-independents

    It also doesn't take name recognition into account. By running for President, Warren and Harris will be more recognizable than other potential running mates.

    With this poll, the real winner was probably "Not Sure" as the numbers don't even add up to 40 percent.



    Looking at first choices can be misleading, as most Democrats will be fine with multiple candidates. Someone choosing Warren over Val Demings doesn't mean they'll be unhappy with Demings when they hear her story.
    Last edited by Mister Mets; 08-09-2020 at 08:00 PM.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

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