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  1. #45391
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totoro Man View Post
    I'm not going to go with that theory. we're talking about a comedian who makes millions of dollars a year. his parents were both successful and well-established people living in Washington D.C. he already HAS done plenty of things that are "meaningful" in the usual sense of that word. this is purely speculation on your part.

    I've met a lot of guys over the years where insulting people is basically the ONLY way they know how to make jokes. (two of my three bosses are like this)

    there are plenty of stand-up comedians that indulge in this sort of behavior... so, I would argue that even going to a comedy club automatically puts you "at risk"... if not from the comedians, then from the other people in the venue at the very least. when Mister Mets suggests that a comedy club is NOT a good environment for this sort of sensitive person he didn't appear to be making the 'grow a pair' argument to me. maybe I don't know him well enough to read between the lines.

    now, people are at liberty to complain about Chapelle and villainize him as much as they want. just don't expect everybody to respond in the same way. for every person that decides to "cancel" the fellow there will be another that decides that they like him even more. some people, who were previously ambivalent, might decide that they admire him because they share his views on a particular issue.

    this is why I argued that it would be better to ignore Chapelle instead of asking people to retweeting about his words and behavior as much as possible.
    I don’t know what Chapelle said, I only know it was disrespectful…

    So I don’t know if it was even funny… I have the impression that I wouldn’t have liked it…
    “Strength is the lot of but a few privileged men; but austere perseverance, harsh and continuous, may be employed by the smallest of us and rarely fails of its purpose, for its silent power grows irresistibly greater with time.” Goethe

  2. #45392
    Amazing Member Adam Allen's Avatar
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    Yeah, The Closer isn't funny. I think I may have had a half-hearted chuckle here and there? Not nearly enough to justify the solid half of the show that was just angry and obvious jokes at the expense of trans folk, painting Dave himself as both victim and staunch hero.

    It's honestly really sad. And no, I"m not talking about "cancelling" him. I'm just saying, I was a huge fan for years, and could likely to this day recite entire bits from standup sets that I thought were absolutely brilliant and hilarious ... sadly, these days he just seems like a cynical, bitter guy who is insecure and petty ... and who is unfortunately lacking in self-awareness or self-reflection, or else he'd realize how incredibly privileged he is in comparison to every trans person, and that joking about them is invariably going to look uglier than joking about things actually relevant to his own life and experiences. The lives or opinions of trans folk is only relevant to Dave's life because he won't shut up about them.

    It's like he traded humility and appreciation for insecurity and anger. And it's just not funny.
    Last edited by Adam Allen; Today at 12:32 AM.
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  3. #45393
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    No one is villainizing Chapelle. He's doing that himself.

  4. #45394
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    More insanity from Kandiss Taylor:

    Georgia Republican gubernatorial candidate Kandiss Taylor said “our founding fathers” came to “destroy American Indians’ homes and their land” to secure “our right to worship Jesus freely.”

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  5. #45395
    Amazing Member Adam Allen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Daphne was real.

    Her family thought Chapelle was a LGBTQ ally, according to a Daily Beast article that includes a Youtube video of her standup set, and links to material from her Instragram account.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/dave-c...rom-the-closer
    And yeah, here's the thing about the Daphne story: "I can't be racist, because I have a black friend!" Seriously, Dave? Like I said, just sad.
    Be kind to me, or treat me mean
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  6. #45396
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Allen View Post
    And yeah, here's the thing about the Daphne story: "I can't be racist, because I have a black friend!" Seriously, Dave? Like I said, just sad.
    In fact, in the moment where he comes closest to accepting trans identity, again using his friend Daphne as his lodestar, it’s the semantic argument that makes the crucial difference for Chappelle. Praising Dorman for her skills as a comedian and her good-natured attitude, he recalls Dorman telling him, “I don’t need you to understand me. I just need you to believe that I’m having a human experience.” Then he points out that he accepted her explicitly “because she didn’t say anything about pronouns” or make him feel like he was about to be “in trouble” for saying something wrong.

    On one level, Chappelle’s anxiety here is deeply relatable. It’s the anxiety felt by many people who are frustrated by cancel culture and what they perceive as its policing of language and free speech. No one likes to be yelled at or told they’re problematic, especially if they say the “wrong” thing when they’re trying to get clarity on complex situations. Much of the conversation around “canceling” and the reactionary politics it engenders — reactionary politics that include all of Chappelle’s recent comedy material — seems to demand a degree of patience with people who are still working out the basic issues surrounding complicated identity vectors. Often, thinking about these things is hard.

    But Chappelle makes it clear that he needs Dorman to exist on his terms, not hers — not as a trans woman with autonomy, but as a trans woman who’s proven she deserves autonomy by way of having a chill, laid-back sense of humor. Furthermore, in repeatedly reducing Dorman’s existence to her body parts and her relationship to them and the language surrounding them, Chappelle dehumanizes her and dehumanizes other trans people.
    https://www.vox.com/culture/22738500...roversy-comedy

  7. #45397
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    These statistics in the above Vox article are likely going to be worse after this year.

    Out of all hate crimes that result in homicide that target LGBTQ and HIV-affected people, 72 percent of the victims are trans women, according to 2013 data.
    50 percent of trans people will experience sexual assault or abuse in their lifetimes; this number is even higher for Black trans people.
    54 percent of trans people experience intimate partner violence.
    Trans people of color are six times more likely to experience police brutality than white cisgender people.
    10 percent of trans people experience violence from a family member after coming out as trans. Eight percent of trans people are kicked out of their homes after coming out.
    30 percent of trans people experience homelessness at least once in their lives.
    In 2015, 30 percent of trans people reported experiencing workplace harassment, including sexual assault, physical harassment, or being fired for their gender expression.
    More than 50 percent of trans teens seriously considered suicide in the last year; more than 66 percent of trans teens experienced major symptoms of depression within the two weeks prior to the survey.

    This is what Chappelle’s critics mean when they discuss the real-world impact of Chappelle’s transphobia. His comedy, which involves continually insisting, against science, that gender is always tied to biology, isn’t just reactionary semantics. It’s dangerous rhetoric that’s been shown in study after study can directly impact the levels of anti-trans violence and societal prejudice that trans people already face daily.

  8. #45398
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    These statistics in the above Vox article are likely going to be worse after this year.
    JK Rowling is also transphobic, so, who’s more dangerous? An author with millions of fans from her Harry Potter books and movies, or Chappelle who’s out there regularly demeaning and insulting transpeople in his standup routine?
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

  9. #45399
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Allen View Post
    And yeah, here's the thing about the Daphne story: "I can't be racist, because I have a black friend!" Seriously, Dave? Like I said, just sad.
    I was responding to someone who thought Chapelle was making her up.

    That said, "The Closer" probably does a better job humanizing trans people for audience members who aren't currently the most enlightened on the topic than their alternatives. That's something to keep in mind.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  10. #45400
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    JK Rowling is also transphobic, so, who’s more dangerous? An author with millions of fans from her Harry Potter books and movies, or Chappelle who’s out there regularly demeaning and insulting transpeople in his standup routine?
    Oh, JK Rowling has absolutely had a bigger impact than Chapelle with her transphobia.

  11. #45401
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    I was responding to someone who thought Chapelle was making her up.

    That said, "The Closer" probably does a better job humanizing trans people for audience members who aren't currently the most enlightened on the topic than their alternatives. That's something to keep in mind.
    Oh, so they should be thankful for being compared to white people wearing blackface?

  12. #45402
    Astonishing Member CSTowle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    To be as serious as a person can be about this sort of "Clown Shoes..." stuff...

    Why Sheriffs?

    What did they do?
    My guess is not throwing out the ballots of poor and minority folk, or urban folk, or anyone likely to vote for Biden over Trump. Every election is pre-rigged now. Every election they win is won despite being rigged against them. They're in their bubble, and if people like her get their way there will be no Blue Georgia or meaningful voice of minority voters come this fall and especially in 2024.
    Formerly finfangfool

  13. #45403
    Invincible Jersey Ninja Tami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    More insanity from Kandiss Taylor:

    Georgia Republican gubernatorial candidate Kandiss Taylor said “our founding fathers” came to “destroy American Indians’ homes and their land” to secure “our right to worship Jesus freely.”

    Twitter link
    I saw that on Twitter and, well, I didn't watch the video clip, but there is so much going on in that statement it's giving me a headache.
    Original join date: 11/23/2004
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  14. #45404
    Amazing Member Adam Allen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    I was responding to someone who thought Chapelle was making her up.

    That said, "The Closer" probably does a better job humanizing trans people for audience members who aren't currently the most enlightened on the topic than their alternatives. That's something to keep in mind.
    I know what you were responding to. I wasn't really talking to you specifically, but just quoted you because you'd been the last person talking about the Daphne thing, I think.

    But disagreed about The Closer being humanizing. I thought it was pretty mean-spirited and demeaning, really -- and it made it seem as if any trans person who dared to defend themselves must be some kind of self-righteous crusader just trying to pick on poor cis people. I mean, he pretty well declared he doesn't think anyone is trans, but said he'll humor you if you don't mind him misgendering you for humor, and dismissing your concerns as completely irrelevant.
    Be kind to me, or treat me mean
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  15. #45405
    Astonishing Member CSTowle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    Oh, JK Rowling has absolutely had a bigger impact than Chapelle with her transphobia.
    It is odd to see the different reaction from the fanbases, I'm not a fan of the Harry Potter series/Rowlingverse but I have many friends who are and there's almost universal disappointment and sadness among those who are aware of her stances. The only complaints I hear from Chapelle fans tends to be he's not funny anymore, and is doing more of a storytelling Henry Rollins deal rather than stand-up.
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