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  1. #6976
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    You're projecting a bit here, whitewashing history isn't really a thing in China and if anything, writers tend to over-emphasize the negative parts. The official propaganda is largely seen as amateurish and cringeworthy, and there isn't anywhere near the same kind of flag-waving chuddery you'd find here.
    Not sure what you mean by white washing, need I list every sin of the US before speaking a single whisper of criticism of China?

    Like, for example, how in up until 1975, the US sterilized Native America women. Need I list all the consequences of that, before condemning the fact that now, today, China is doing the same, and worse, to the Uighurs?

    The crimes of our past, then, do not mitigate the crimes of others, now.

    Again, the United States is not perfect by any measure. But if perfection is required to denounce the crimes of others, then all we'd ever hear is silence.

  2. #6977
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    Do you really think that censorship has made people completely unaware of an event that happened only 30 years ago? If people want to remember an event, they will find a way regardless of what the government wants. If they want to forget, then no amount of media coverage can make them remember.
    I dunno. Didn't it work for the Japanese when they censored their WW2 atrocities?

  3. #6978
    Astonishing Member PwrdOn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Not sure what you mean by white washing, need I list every sin of the US before speaking a single whisper of criticism of China?

    Like, for example, how in up until 1975, the US sterilized Native America women. Need I list all the consequences of that, before condemning the fact that now, today, China is doing the same, and worse, to the Uighurs?

    The crimes of our past, then, do not mitigate the crimes of others, now.

    Again, the United States is not perfect by any measure. But if perfection is required to denounce the crimes of others, then all we'd ever hear is silence.
    Criticize China all you like, but just recognize that when you do so it's largely just regurgitating propaganda spun by the Trump administration to deflect from its own failings. I just have a hard time believing that the same people who killed a million Muslims in the war on terror and spent the better part of two decades demonizing them in every way possible have all of a sudden done an about face and are now genuinely concerned about preserving their religion and culture.

    Quote Originally Posted by shooshoomanjoe View Post
    I dunno. Didn't it work for the Japanese when they censored their WW2 atrocities?
    It's not as if the Japanese public was ever particularly torn up about any of their war crimes anyway, their attitude towards it is pretty much the same as that of Confederate apologists toward slavery.
    Last edited by PwrdOn; 08-01-2020 at 12:07 PM.

  4. #6979
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    Criticize China all you like, but just recognize that when you do so it's largely just regurgitating propaganda spun by the Trump administration to deflect from its own failings. I just have a hard time believing that the same people who killed a million Muslims in the war on terror and spent the better part of two decades demonizing them in every way possible have all of a sudden done an about face and are now genuinely concerned about preserving their religion and culture.
    Actually, Trump's not said a damn thing about the Uighurs, and I never cared for China's human rights policy (or utter lack thereof) long before Trump.

    People didn't just suddenly start saying 'Free Tibet' because Trump says China sucks, ya know.

  5. #6980
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Actually, Trump's not said a damn thing about the Uighurs, and I never cared for China's human rights policy (or utter lack thereof) long before Trump.

    People didn't just suddenly start saying 'Free Tibet' because Trump says China sucks, ya know.
    Free Tibet has been a bastion of the uber liberal since the 90s. Beastie Boys being the chief among the famous people pushing Free Tibet.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  6. #6981
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    Free Tibet has been a bastion of the uber liberal since the 90s. Beastie Boys being the chief among the famous people pushing Free Tibet.
    Does Rage Against The Machine advocate for that as well?

  7. #6982
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    GOP congressman reprimanded for 11 ethics violations, including fake loan he made to his campaign

    Republican Rep. David Schweikert agreed to pay a $50,000 fine, accept a formal reprimand, and admit to 11 different violations of congressional rules and campaign finance laws in a deal with the bipartisan House Ethics Committee to conclude its two-year-long investigation of the congressman. But while the matter may now officially be closed, Schweikert's already uncertain political future is now only more endangered.

    The Ethics Committee's wide-ranging findings fell into four categories: (1) "campaign finance violations and reporting errors"; (2) spending government money to support Schweikert's political campaigns; (3) pressuring government staff to perform campaign work; and (4) Schweikert's "lack of candor and due diligence in the course of the investigation."
    Is he on WBE's list?
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  8. #6983
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragged Maw View Post
    Does Rage Against The Machine advocate for that as well?
    But if you don’t say “Free Puerto Rico” first then how can you have an opinion on Tibet??


    I am enjoying PwrdOn’s total generalizing of every American as a Muslim-hating, slave-defending racist.

  9. #6984
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    Do you really think that censorship has made people completely unaware of an event that happened only 30 years ago? If people want to remember an event, they will find a way regardless of what the government wants. If they want to forget, then no amount of media coverage can make them remember.
    Would you say there are no repercussions for people who talk about what happened at Tiananmen Square openly?
    Sincerely,
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  10. #6985
    Astonishing Member PwrdOn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sammy_hansen View Post
    But if you don’t say “Free Puerto Rico” first then how can you have an opinion on Tibet??


    I am enjoying PwrdOn’s total generalizing of every American as a Muslim-hating, slave-defending racist.
    Well it would be pretty odd to cast yourself as some type of human rights crusader if you live in a country built on stolen land and slave labor and pretend like that's all just "in the past" while continuing to benefit from it to this day, wouldn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Would you say there are no repercussions for people who talk about what happened at Tiananmen Square openly?
    Censorship in China is real and quite extensive, that's not the point I was making though. While the state tries to suppress public discussion of it and other shameful events, that doesn't mean that people have forgotten about them or try to spin Chinese history as always have been glorious and flawless. By contrast, in America and other Western countries, information about the sordid events in our history is readily available to anyone who wants to seek it out, yet few people bother to do so and those that do are routinely labeled as unpatriotic and revisionist.

    Not to blow this out of proportion or anything, but just look at this thread. I pointed out that American history is based on racial oppression and that practically everyone living in this country benefited from it whether or not you are racist yourself or were personally involved in discriminatory policy, which should be common knowledge at this point. And yet the only reaction any of you had to that was "well, what about China????" as if that had any relevance to the discussion we had been having.
    Last edited by PwrdOn; 08-01-2020 at 03:57 PM.

  11. #6986
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    Well it would be pretty odd to cast yourself as some type of human rights crusader if you live in a country built on stolen land and slave labor and pretend like that's all just "in the past" while continuing to benefit from it to this day, wouldn't it?
    Tell me of a country that has never had anything like that in their history. There aren't many.

    No justification, only that you can't change the past. All you can do is learn from it and try to do better. Do what needs to be done, but don't let it drag you backward. Living in the past never helped anyone.
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  12. #6987
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    Tell me of a country that has never had anything like that in their history. There aren't many.

    No justification, only that you can't change the past. All you can do is learn from it and try to do better. Do what needs to be done, but don't let it drag you backward. Living in the past never helped anyone.
    Wholesale depopulation of an entire continent and complete replacement by outside settlers has only happened once in human history, as far as I'm aware, twice if you want to count Australia as its own continent. And while most societies have had slavery in one form or another, almost none were as economically dependent on the institution as much as America was, nor are there any other places where slavery had such long lasting repercussions after its abolition.

  13. #6988
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  14. #6989
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    Wholesale depopulation of an entire continent and complete replacement by outside settlers has only happened once in human history, as far as I'm aware, twice if you want to count Australia as its own continent. And while most societies have had slavery in one form or another, almost none were as economically dependent on the institution as much as America was, nor are there any other places where slavery had such long lasting repercussions after its abolition.
    Give China enough time, and they'll have done the same thing to Tibet that the United States did to the Native Americans. Because they're doing it now, intentionally displacing the locals with loyalists. While performing cultural and literal genocide on the Uighurs.

  15. #6990
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Actually, Trump's not said a damn thing about the Uighurs, and I never cared for China's human rights policy (or utter lack thereof) long before Trump.

    People didn't just suddenly start saying 'Free Tibet' because Trump says China sucks, ya know.
    https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...injiang-2020-6

    Xi "explained to Trump why he was basically building concentration camps in Xinjiang," Bolton wrote, citing the interpreter's account. The interpreter added that "Trump said that Xi should go ahead with building the camps, which Trump thought was exactly the right thing to do," according to the book.

    Bolton also wrote in the book that Matthew Pottinger, a retired US Marine and the current deputy national security adviser, "told me that Trump said something very similar during his November 2017 trip to China."

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