1. #34561

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    Speaking of Bill Clinton and not about a scandal from a quarter century ago... he's been hospitalized (not with Covid-19) but seems to be on the road to recovery.
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    Quote Originally Posted by worstblogever View Post
    While I wouldn't say that scandal was a "there are no victims here" event...

    You could say "there were no good guys in this", and you'd be more accurate. Lewinsky still got the brunt of the late night comedians' jokes. And that she's the closest thing to a victim in the scenario.
    Yes she was the victim and its more she had no clue how this would go. In a normal world Monica would have revealed the affair when she wanted to in a book or however. But it would have likely been years later etc.

    I'd say the biggest villain in this was Linda Tripp who really exposed this...and set Monica to be that joke.

    Bill and Monica get blame for affair but the revealing it then by Tripp hurt Monica as we saw.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    Yes in a world where a 22-25 year old woman has no power or responsibility at all in a relationship ...its nonsense. Basically she was innocent and her wicked boss is soley responsible.

    On planet Earth....now...that is a nope. Monica was an adult woman. Who had 2 affairs with older men before she got with Clinton.

    Its clear that Monica wasn't the innocent your attempting to try.
    Look...

    If you're gonna take a look at married men who were sleeping with a woman that was under twenty-three and come up with "No way that young woman was being taken advantage of by older men..."?

    Your call.

    Personally, I tend to lean towards "Victim..." when it comes to that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Look...

    If you're gonna take a look at married men who were sleeping with a woman that was under twenty-three and come up with "No way that young woman was being taken advantage of by older men..."?

    Your call.

    Personally, I tend to lean towards "Victim..." when it comes to that.
    You can use that logic maybe once...hell...maybe a 2nd time. But Monica had one affair that went a couple years and Bill Clinton was her 3rd one at this point.

    She obviously made mistakes. Blaming men for taking advantage of her is kinda silly with what is known. The simple fact is...Monica and Bill as adults had bad judgement.

    They both did wrong with this. She has equal blame in this like Clinton as both clearly aren't morally right here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    Yes she was the victim and its more she had no clue how this would go. In a normal world Monica would have revealed the affair when she wanted to in a book or however. But it would have likely been years later etc.

    I'd say the biggest villain in this was Linda Tripp who really exposed this...and set Monica to be that joke.

    Bill and Monica get blame for affair but the revealing it then by Tripp hurt Monica as we saw.
    Which never would have been an issue if the guy had acted like an even remotely responsible adult/boss.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    You can use that logic maybe once...hell...maybe a 2nd time. But Monica had one affair that went a couple years and Bill Clinton was her 3rd one at this point.

    She obviously made mistakes. Blaming men for taking advantage of her is kinda silly with what is known. The simple fact is...Monica and Bill as adults had bad judgement.

    They both did wrong with this. She has equal blame in this like Clinton as both clearly aren't morally right here.
    Your still saying "Affair..." like a woman under twenty-three could not have been victimized by an older married man...

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    And that's not even getting into what seem to be the details of those two earlier situations...

    You really look at the ages and the details there, and no seriously red flags go up?

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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Which never would have been an issue if the guy had acted like an even remotely responsible adult/boss.
    Maybe if 2 adults didn't engage in an affair it doesn't go this way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    And that's not even getting into what seem to be the details of those two earlier situations...

    You really look at the ages and the details there, and no seriously red flags go up?
    So 30...what age would Monica face any responsibility for engaging in affairs ? I mean you seem hell bent to point at these ages and go..."See ...see hes older and clearly at fault !"

    Because frankly I want to know what magical age Monica was supposed to be to take half responsbility for her affairs she had before and with Bill Clinton.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    Yes she was the victim and its more she had no clue how this would go. In a normal world Monica would have revealed the affair when she wanted to in a book or however. But it would have likely been years later etc.

    I'd say the biggest villain in this was Linda Tripp who really exposed this...and set Monica to be that joke.

    Bill and Monica get blame for affair but the revealing it then by Tripp hurt Monica as we saw.
    It's two separate things...

    Clinton's in the wrong for having an affair... with a subordinate. Both are ethically and morally wrong.
    Tripp's obsession with bringing Clinton and outing Lewinsky publicly as the woman in question is a betrayal of her.

    By the time we start getting down the line to partisan s***heels like Ken Starr who were just trying ANYTHING to get an impeachment, and hypocrites like Newt Gingrich and Bob Livingston were having affairs, Tom DeLay had cheated on his wife a bunch of times prior to it... meanwhile Denny Hastert was a complete pedophile. Like, the "moral high ground" of those who pushed hardest is laughable. It was simply about consolidating power, plain and simple. Hell, I saw an interview with John Boehner not long ago where he wished he didn't do more to push back against Gingrich and the Republicans who wanted Clinton impeached. Not that it changes anything, it's just weird that he'd even say that in hindsight.
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    So earlier this week at a Glenn Youngkin for VA Governor event, Republican supporters dragged out an American flag they claimed was present at the January 6th attack, and pledged allegiance to this specific flag... leading some historians to already note the Nazis did the same thing with a bloody flag after the Beer Hall Putsch and eventually used it in ceremonies to "sanctify" other Nazi flags. The event was organized by... who else... Steve Bannon.

    It's hard to tell sometimes if these loons are deliberately or accidentally cribbing from the Nazis' notebook. Either is damning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    So 30...what age would Monica face any responsibility for engaging in affairs ? I mean you seem hell bent to point at these ages and go..."See ...see hes older and clearly at fault !"

    Because frankly I want to know what magical age Monica was supposed to be to take half responsbility for her affairs she had before and with Bill Clinton.
    Here's how I, personally, run the numbers on the whole thing...

    The first "Affair...": From what I can recall. she is eighteen/the guy involved is a married man who was at least in his mid thirties.

    Set aside that the situation is withing spitting distance of a statutory rape charge in a lot of states.

    You are going to have to let me see the math so that I can double check it before I feel like the eighteen year old wasn't being victimized.

    The Second "Affair...": From what I can recall the married guy involved had been her high school drama teacher.

    Again, you're gonna need to show me the "Was not victimized..." math so that I can double check it before I buy into anything except "That person was victimized..."

    I honestly can't see how folks looked at those two situations(well, that assumes that anyone even cared...), and didn't think "This person has been victimized..."

    So, yeah. I tend to see a victim there.

    Wanting to see the age where she should rightly shoulder her part of the blame when it seems pretty likely that she was coming from a past where a person might not even be equipped to do that kind of math feels pretty whacked out to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Here's how I, personally, run the numbers on the whole thing...

    The first "Affair...": From what I can recall. she is eighteen/the guy involved is a married man who was at least in his mid thirties.

    Set aside that the situation is withing spitting distance of a statutory rape charge in a lot of states.

    You are going to have to let me see the math so that I can double check it before I feel like the eighteen year old wasn't being victimized.

    The Second "Affair...": From what I can recall the married guy involved had been her high school drama teacher.

    Again, you're gonna need to show me the "Was not victimized..." math so that I can double check it before I buy into anything except "That person was victimized..."

    I honestly can't see how folks looked at those two situations(well, that assumes that anyone even cared...), and didn't think "This person has been victimized..."

    So, yeah. I tend to see a victim there.

    Wanting to see the age where she should rightly shoulder her part of the blame when it seems pretty likely that she was coming from a past where a person might not even be equipped to do that kind of math feels pretty whacked out to me.

    Her one affair was at 19 while in college with former drama teacher. That lasted a couple years. She revealed on Larry King she had a 5 year affair with a man in his 40s.

    Both were before Bill Clinton.

    We can kinda see that the whole , Bill took advantage deal falls apart. Its more like 2 adults...one 20+ years older did the wrong thing.

    Monica knew enough to commit not just 1 affair...she had 3 of them. So the not knowing about life etc falls completely apart.

    I feel for her on how bad it went. How it impacted her life after. But we can't erase responsibility for someone because they are a young adult. That isn't an excuse if you keep doing same thing...repeatedly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    Her one affair was at 19 while in college with former drama teacher. That lasted a couple years. She revealed on Larry King she had a 5 year affair with a man in his 40s.

    Both were before Bill Clinton.

    We can kinda see that the whole , Bill took advantage deal falls apart. Its more like 2 adults...one 20+ years older did the wrong thing.

    Monica knew enough to commit not just 1 affair...she had 3 of them. So the not knowing about life etc falls completely apart.

    I feel for her on how bad it went. How it impacted her life after. But we can't erase responsibility for someone because they are a young adult. That isn't an excuse if you keep doing same thing...repeatedly.
    You realize that the stuff you are laying out is right on the outskirts of grooming, right?

    Talking about this like it is just "Run Of The Mill..." affairs that folks have?

    Everything that we know tends to point in the opposite direction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    You realize that the stuff you are laying out is right on the outskirts of grooming, right?

    Talking about this like it is just "Run Of The Mill..." affairs that folks have?

    Everything that we know tends to point in the opposite direction.
    Its pretty much on the very outskirts if at all. Monica was in college and chose those affairs she had. Bill Clinton didn't know her for years and groom her to do this.

    In all she did bad judgement. We all make mistakes in life and do the wrong thing at times. Monica did...a few times.

    Bill did a few times as well. They were adults who did wrong in a public way.
    "The story so far: As usual, Ginger and I are engaged in our quest to find out what the hell is going on and save humanity from my nemesis, some bastard who is presumably responsible." - Sir Digby Chicken Caesar.
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