All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[numberthirty]

While the Dems have stuff they need to address the whole 'this is an indictment of the Democratic party's failures' comes off as a bit disingenuous and ignoring the real problem of our election system election system given that Biden's absurdly huge popular vote lead.

Last night should have told anyone paying attention that The Democratic Party has almost no leverage to even begin to address this.

If someone isn't even going to be straight with themselves about where they are starting out, what are the actual odds that they can make any real progress in actually addressing that?

[numberthirty]

Not entirely sure what to make of this

Regardless of why this moving truck is in front of the White House - just atrocious optics for the current occupant.

Is it legit? If so, what do you suppose it means?



Some on Twitter think that Trump is going to loot the White House.

For the next couple of weeks?

I am not buying that anything is legit.

Outside of the awesomeness of "X Of Swords"...

[Jackalope89]

The main issue is the Electoral College. It makes the actual popular vote look MUCH closer than it should be, and in a number of cases, completely negates peoples' votes.

[kingaliencracker]

While the Dems have stuff they need to address the whole 'this is an indictment of the Democratic party's failures' comes off as a bit disingenuous and ignoring the real problem of our election system election system given that Biden's absurdly huge popular vote lead.

??

Trump is only behind in the popular vote by 3 million. That's not a substantial or abnormal difference and in fact was about the difference between him and Hilary in 2016.

What needs to be pointed out, however, is that while Biden will ultimately have the highest popular vote of any presidential candidate in history, Trump may actually wind up in 2nd place on that list. So again, I don't think this is the resounding success liberals were hoping for. Trump just isn't a good person and mishandled this entire year. I think that's the only thing to take away from this election.

[shooshoomanjoe]

Not entirely sure what to make of this

Regardless of why this moving truck is in front of the White House - just atrocious optics for the current occupant.

Is it legit? If so, what do you suppose it means?



Some on Twitter think that Trump is going to loot the White House.

Maybe trump's moving out before the FBI nab him.

[godisawesome]

Was it sputtering enough, though? I mean its still so close, and we're getting killed by a pandemic

I’d say no it wasn’t.

None of the economic arguments in favor of the GOP and Trump are based in any substantive reality, but on the fever dreams of libertarianism.

The “pop-culture” argument on economics is as simple as some people thinking anything left-leaning at all, even centrist policies, hurst the economy.

It’s why so much of historical revisionism targets the New Deal; the perception of successful management of the economy on the part of a Democratic politician damages the entire argument.

[kingaliencracker]

The main issue is the Electoral College. It makes the actual popular vote look MUCH closer than it should be, and in a number of cases, completely negates peoples' votes.

But without the electoral college, states like Nevada, Arizona, Wisconsin, and Michigan wouldn't matter in the election. It would always be about New York, California, and Florida. The electoral college keeps the smaller states relevant.

[numberthirty]

??

Trump is only behind in the popular vote by 3 million. That's not a substantial or abnormal difference and in fact was about the difference between him and Hilary in 2016.

What needs to be pointed out, however, is that while Biden will ultimately have the highest popular vote of any presidential candidate in history, Trump may actually wind up in 2nd place on that list. So again, I don't think this is the resounding success liberals were hoping for. Trump just isn't a good person and mishandled this entire year. I think that's the only thing to take away from this election.

While that is not to be ignored, Trump managed to build on his base in what was essentially a "Worst Case Scenario..." for him. Never mind that folks believed such a thing to be an impossibility.

If The Republican Party can hold onto even so much as a fraction of those gains?

Not a pretty picture.

[Robotman]

There’s still a chance that Biden will win Pennsylvania and Georgia. With his huge popular vote win this presidential election may not end up being as close as it currently seems.

[The Cool Thatguy]

But without the electoral college, states like Nevada, Arizona, Wisconsin, and Michigan wouldn't matter in the election. It would always be about New York, California, and Florida. The electoral college keeps the smaller states relevant.

While rendering the conservative voices of New York silent, and vice versa in Red States.

[kingaliencracker]

Was it sputtering enough, though? I mean its still so close, and we're getting killed by a pandemic

The first dip my deferred compensation account took over the last 4 years was on 03/31/2020. It was on a steady climb every month in every year Trump was in office up until then. So from that evidence I can tell you that no, it wasn't sputtering.

I'm not attributing that entirely to Trump, mind you. But generally a strong economy is a likely indicator that the incumbent president will probably be reelected.

[Powerboy]

I suppose I opened this hypothetical door but I think if you're looking at this objectively then the path we were on at the beginning of 2020 was leading towards a relatively easy Trump reelection. I know that's difficult for his staunchest critics to accept and of course I have no way to prove it. But the pandemic and the civil unrest following the pandemic galvanized voters to, if not vote FOR Biden then certainly vote AGAINST Trump. But even then it's going to be a much more difficult victory for Biden than people predicted (or maybe hoped for). Texas and Florida were two of the top-3 states hit hardest with Covid-19 cases AND bucked the trend of all recommendations. Yet they didn't even bat an eye voting for Trump.

In addition to my previous comment about the pandemic, the social unrest hitting a peak is also a relevant factor that destroyed a Trump win and certainly destroyed an easy win.

But, how much of that social unrest was a result of a Trump presidency? How much could he have salvaged if he dealt with the unrest in a fair manner? How much less would the pandemic have hurt him if it were not for his short-term gain for himself reaction? In other words, if he wasn't Trump, he might have survived this.

People can say, "Geez, if only there hadn't been social unrest or a pandemic, he might have won". But, again, he fanned the flames of both, making them far worse than they had to be. But that's his very nature. That's his appeal to those who find him appealing. His manufacturing of an illegal alien problem as some sort of national crisis is a perfect example of him creating a problem in people's minds, feeding on their bigotry.

What if he had been president during the Bay of Pigs, during Vietnam, during the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s, during the Iranian hostage crisis, during 9/11? Unless his presidency had zero events happen, Trump would be Trump and likely make it worse. In fact, he might well have generated problems during other eras that otherwise wouldn't have existed.

[babyblob]

I love how Trump wants the vote stopped in PA and Michigan, but is fine with it being going on in Arizona and Nevada. my Trumper aunt has no answer on why that is not crazy. Why late votes are okay to be counted in two states but now two more.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Not entirely sure what to make of this

For a while, I thought that if it became clear that Trump would lose and he had no way out, he would resign as POTUS and leave the lame duck duties and the actual buck of conceding to Mike Pence. Maybe this is in preparation for that.

The actual makeup of the country just took a really hard "I'll Pass..." on handing The Democratic Party more power last night.

Does that include Arizona? Colorado? Where Dems dislodged GOP. What about the Squad who not only got relected but saw more progressive Reps that they endorsed, join the House?

Pelosi talking about the better deal that she would get post-election suggests otherwise.

Obviously you campaign and hope for the best but when the results come in, you prepare and take what you get.

I suppose I opened this hypothetical door but I think if you're looking at this objectively

Your argument rests on what happens if a) the world-changing historic pandemic did not happen, b) if the conditions of January and February (where I might add Trump both knew about the pandemic and already started lying about it and informing wall street folks about it) continued indefinitely...

The word "objectively" went out the window when you start with that.

Last night should have told anyone paying attention that The Democratic Party has almost no leverage to even begin to address this.

If you mean removing the EC, that means changing the constitution itself. So yeah obviously the Dems don't have leverage to address that. That kind of stuff would take decades.

If someone isn't even going to be straight with themselves about where they are starting out, what are the actual odds that they can make any real progress in actually addressing that?

The same about as odds as any real suggestions put here have to making real headway in the world.

But without the electoral college, states like Nevada, Arizona, Wisconsin, and Michigan wouldn't matter in the election.

Yes they would matter. House and Senate seats would always matter.

The electoral college keeps the smaller states relevant.

No it doesn't. Even without the EC, big states like NYS and CA for the Dems, TX and FL for the GOP largely set the discourse since a lot of the money economically speaking in terms of funding and backing comes from them and flows to these states.

The nature of swing states hasn't intrinsically helped these states or given a big voice in national level for the problems in their states such as infrastructure and so on.

[kingaliencracker]

While rendering the conservative voices of New York silent, and vice versa in Red States.

I think that proves my point more than anything. A conservative New Yorker would likely never see a conservative president voted into office if all the elections focused on were New York, California, and Florida because chances are the former two states will always vote liberal while Florida will swing back and forth. And candidates only focusing on those areas will probably decrease voter turnout in smaller states. The electoral college prevents states from monopolizing the presidential election.

I mean, I know it was 344 years ago but are forefathers were kind of brilliant guys who thought ahead about these things. It's not like the East Coast wasn't the most densely populated areas back then too.