All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I would just tell people to shrug their shoulders at this. He has to overtake Biden in Nevada or he has no chance, even if he maintains PA, GA, and NC.

I believe he's now trying to use intimidation tactics by having the former Nevada AG and more do press conferences there. He wants them to give him the votes there.

[PaulBullion]

Can Trump run again in 2004

Only with full pardons.

[babyblob]

Do your research. The location they’re referring to had both Democratic and Republican offials observing the count. The Trump campaign people weren’t allowed entry because there wasn’t room.

Here is a question about this. I looked but couldnt find a solid answer. Were there other Republican officials and there just wasnt room for this guy? Or was there no room for him but they had Dem officials? Not trying to start a thing. I am just honestly wondering?

I know in my county three people were turned away and and the local Trumpers are making a thing of it. But the three turned away were jot approved before and and showed up at 730 to watch the count.

I wonder how many of these unofficial poll watchers in these states showed up on there own or were put up to it by local GOP to stir trouble and make the claim of voter fraud more reasonable.

[Username taken]

Somewhere along the way, the Republicans have managed to sell themselves as the party of the common man and woman, the working class, which was traditionally the domain of the Democrats. I'm not saying it's true but if you keep repeating a lie loud enough and enough times...

Meanwhile, I think, to many Conservatives, the Democrats have become the party of anti-police/ anti-law and order and of "Choose your own gender" restrooms.

I think police reform and Trans rights are extremely important. But I'm talking about perception. Trump won for a lot of reasons but talking about bringing jobs and income back to America and boosting the economy along with "Law and order" and pure isolationism was a big part of it. Sure, they were all lies or misapplied and bigoted applications but it gave Conservatives the feeling the Republicans cared about them while giving the feeling Democrats care only about what they perceive as fringe or radical issues.

Democrats, in the long run, need to show some courage and push the human rights issues while solidly establishing that they are the party of the people.

The problem comes when people perceive stupid things as being "for the people". Going back to Coal? Pushing a very finite resource like oil? Tribalism encompassing everything from isolationism to Trump's ridiculous wall.

Granted this race, because of the Electoral college, is creating a misconception about how popular and believed the Republicans are. On the popular vote, they would be ousted in a landslide.

Quoted for truth.

[babyblob]

The thing I really love about this election is how high the turnout was and how many people came out and said Screw you to Trump and his way of thinking. But on the flip side I am saddened by just how many people voted for Trump knowing just who and what he is.

The fact is there are close to 69 million people who voted for Trump. How does the country come back from that in the future I have no idea.

And I hear people saying well they are racists/nutjobs/etc. that cant be reached. The thing is if we want a untied country we cant just discount everyone who voted for Trump. There has to be a way to try and reach at least some of them. I have faced this. I voted for Trump in 2016. I have pretty much always been treated as a rascist/homophbe/right wing nut job when ever I talked to my Dem friends or went to Democratic events.

On the flip side Dems are all treated as socialists who want to destroy the government and want to give everything to the illegals and kill babies.

This election just made me see just how far apart we really are. (not that the last few years havnt given me some idea)

[Zelena]

Meanwhile, I think, to many Conservatives, the Democrats have become the party of anti-police/ anti-law and order and of "Choose your own gender" restrooms.

How can the Conservatives be still the party of law when his champion has so little respect for the institutions of his country?

[babyblob]

How can the Conservatives be still the party of law when his champion has so little respect for the institutions of his country?

They dont see that. They see him being screwed out of an election. They hear him talk about Antifa and BLM burning our cities. The hear all the talk of the left wanting to open boarders to illegal rapists and drug dealers. They hear him say the left wants to fire every cop and disband the military.

What ever you want to say about Trump he knows how to play on his supporters fears. he does not care about lying and half truths to get his way.

[PwrdOn]

Somewhere along the way, the Republicans have managed to sell themselves as the party of the common man and woman, the working class, which was traditionally the domain of the Democrats. I'm not saying it's true but if you keep repeating a lie loud enough and enough times...

Meanwhile, I think, to many Conservatives, the Democrats have become the party of anti-police/ anti-law and order and of "Choose your own gender" restrooms.

I think police reform and Trans rights are extremely important. But I'm talking about perception. Trump won for a lot of reasons but talking about bringing jobs and income back to America and boosting the economy along with "Law and order" and pure isolationism was a big part of it. Sure, they were all lies or misapplied and bigoted applications but it gave Conservatives the feeling the Republicans cared about them while giving the feeling Democrats care only about what they perceive as fringe or radical issues.

Democrats, in the long run, need to show some courage and push the human rights issues while solidly establishing that they are the party of the people.

The problem comes when people perceive stupid things as being "for the people". Going back to Coal? Pushing a very finite resource like oil? Tribalism encompassing everything from isolationism to Trump's ridiculous wall.

Granted this race, because of the Electoral college, is creating a misconception about how popular and believed the Republicans are. On the popular vote, they would be ousted in a landslide.

Remember that this is a country that was built by slave labor and whose economy today couldn't survive without illegal immigrants and overseas sweatshop workers to do most of the hard labor. The mythical "white working class" has never actually represented the common man in any meaningful sense, but rather has always been a fairly privileged group who have always had an enviable array of opportunities to earn a comfortable living even with a fairly limited skill set, opportunities that the TRUE working class of this country have rarely had access to. The only reason we fixate so much on them is because of the role they play in our national origin story where the country was built by humble European immigrants who came here and pulled themselves by their bootstraps and created the greatest society in the history of the planet, a story that pretty much everyone has always known was complete bullshit. The actual "common people" of this country come from a wide array of different backgrounds and I would like to believe that we are largely more empathetic to each other's needs and aren't as fixated on narrow regional issues as most of the people in Trump's base.

How can the Conservatives be still the party of law when his champion has so little respect for the institutions of his country?

The legal system in this country is working as intended. It may not be working the way we like to pretend it does in our self-delusions about what values the country stands for and what not, but even the founders were pretty transparent about setting up institutions that primarily served the interests of the rich and powerful and kept a tight leash on the troublesome black folks. People seem to believe that at some point in history we hit a reset button and rebuilt the system without all the racist stuff, but that never actually happened.

[ChangingStation]

The thing I really love about this election is how high the turnout was and how many people came out and said Screw you to Trump and his way of thinking. But on the flip side I am saddened by just how many people voted for Trump knowing just who and what he is.

The fact is there are close to 69 million people who voted for Trump. How does the country come back from that in the future I have no idea.

And I hear people saying well they are racists/nutjobs/etc. that cant be reached. The thing is if we want a untied country we cant just discount everyone who voted for Trump. There has to be a way to try and reach at least some of them. I have faced this. I voted for Trump in 2016. I have pretty much always been treated as a rascist/homophbe/right wing nut job when ever I talked to my Dem friends or went to Democratic events.

On the flip side Dems are all treated as socialists who want to destroy the government and want to give everything to the illegals and kill babies.

This election just made me see just how far apart we really are. (not that the last few years havnt given me some idea)

Then let me be the first to say, you aren't racist. You aren't homophobic. And you aren't a nutjob. I apologise for anyone who does say that. At worst you're someone was either willing to believe in the party you voted for all your life, believed in him or didn't want to vote for Clinton. It takes courage to admit when you're wrong. And insulting you like that just makes it worse.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

As someone posted thus far 2 Trump lawsuits have been tossed out. One in Georgia and one in Michigan thus far.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/elect...4pu-story.html

[Zelena]

They dont see that. They see him being screwed out of an election. They hear him talk about Antifa and BLM burning our cities. The hear all the talk of the left wanting to open boarders to illegal rapists and drug dealers. They hear him say the left wants to fire every cop and disband the military.

What ever you want to say about Trump he knows how to play on his supporters fears. he does not care about lying and half truths to get his way.

Then, maybe, with a Biden presidency, they will see it isn’t the hell they imagine.

[TheManInBlack]

The fact is there are close to 69 million people who voted for Trump. How does the country come back from that in the future I have no idea.

And I hear people saying well they are racists/nutjobs/etc. that cant be reached. The thing is if we want a untied country we cant just discount everyone who voted for Trump. There has to be a way to try and reach at least some of them. I have faced this. I voted for Trump in 2016. I have pretty much always been treated as a rascist/homophbe/right wing nut job when ever I talked to my Dem friends or went to Democratic events.

This, right here, is the issue. Things like self-selecting social media and 'news' organizations form massive bubbles that almost no one can see in or out of.

Facebook is a great example of this: Like or 'love' several things that lean Democrat? It shows you more of it and less of the other stuff, even people on your friends lists. That trend goes on for years and by then you'll only see 99% liberal stuff. Twitter and Instagram do the same thing. You begin to think that the entire world is with you other than those nameless, faceless evil deplorables. Meanwhile the EXACT same thing happens on the other side where Republicans think that their view is normal and anyone outside their bubble is a nameless, faceless, far leftist. CNN and MSNBC are a constant deluge of 'Trump insane and racist, Biden good!' While Fox is a constant deluge of 'Trump good, Biden senile!' Once you're exposed to years of that brainwashing where we believe in the absolute good and evil of each side, it's all over and I don't know how to resolve it. I'm looking forward to the inevitable replies proving my point.

[ChangingStation]

Then, maybe, with a Biden presidency, they will see it won’t be the hell they imagine.

Maybe for some of them, but others will ignore it.

[PaulBullion]

I agree with some of the things you say, before COVID broke out the pollsters had Trump winning in 2020. However I don't think you give Biden enough credit.

Biden won the election primarily by flipping Arizona, a state that has only gone Democratic once since 1952. That is no small feat, and he did it by getting the Hispanic vote out in Phoenix and Tucson Arizona. That is a moral blow to the Republican Party.

Finally, I don't think Biden had to do much other than stepping aside to watch Trump embrace the hard right and the anti conspiracy nuts that alienated suburban voters. Sometimes the best strategy is to let your opponent self destruct.

The polls (whatever they may be worth) actually gave Biden a wider lead before the pandemic.

But that was also before the primaries, so...

If we're going strictly by polling history, Covid seems to have slightly HELPED Trump, not harmed him.

[wjowski]

This, right here, is the issue. Things like self-selecting social media and 'news' organizations form massive bubbles that almost no one can see in or out of.

Facebook is a great example of this: Like or 'love' several things that lean Democrat? It shows you more of it and less of the other stuff, even people on your friends lists. That trend goes on for years and by then you'll only see 99% liberal stuff. Twitter and Instagram do the same thing. You begin to think that the entire world is with you other than those nameless, faceless evil deplorables. Meanwhile the EXACT same thing happens on the other side where Republicans think that their view is normal and anyone outside their bubble is a nameless, faceless, far leftist. CNN and MSNBC are a constant deluge of 'Trump insane and racist, Biden good!' While Fox is a constant deluge of 'Trump good, Biden senile!' Once you're exposed to years of that brainwashing where we believe in the absolute good and evil of each side, it's all over and I don't know how to resolve it. I'm looking forward to the inevitable replies proving my point.

Except y'know, Trump actaully is insane and racist.