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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    You dont seem to understand how politics works then. Its all about compromise. You rarely get all unless scandal, force or utter political destruction/major loss are on the table.
    Compromise happens when you hold firm on a position and never yield no matter what the pressure, and the other side comes begging for you to make a deal. Repeatedly declaring to your opponents that you have no principles and just want to make a grand bargain for the sake of optics is exactly why the left is in the sorry state that it's in these days. Centrists seem to think that you can just throw away every bit of leverage you have and that somehow the right wingers will still be willing to come to the table, despite all the evidence to the contrary over the last 40 years.

  2. #152
    Astonishing Member jetengine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    I think key question...the thing that would sink Boris if it was ever established..is whether he ever materially departed from the advice of the governments own top scientific advisers. Nobody has demonstrated that so far.

    Imagine..that somehow Jeremy had won last election. The civil service personnel, the chief scientific advisers...all the supporting infrastructure would have all been the same. He would have received the same advice as Boris.

    Yes..with benefit of hindsight...”government” has made loads of mistakes. But...honestly..I think the Labour government would have followed the same course....Jeremy would have accepted the scientific advice. If he hadn’t the chances are, we’d have been even worse off.
    I like how I never once mentioned Jeremy Corbyn but you somehow spin "Boris has personally fucked this up" into "Yeah but Corbyn"

    Also yes, he clearly ignored scientific advice frequently. The sheer fact that we're the worst in Europe says it all. I mean the most obvious is that Dominic Cummings is put on the sodding Cobra/SAGE meetings. The guardian lays it out rather nicely though.


    https://archive.is/20200418182037/ht...ster-hq3b9tlgh
    Last edited by jetengine; 05-05-2020 at 09:26 AM.

  3. #153
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    I like how I never once mentioned Jeremy Corbyn but you somehow spin "Boris has personally fucked this up" into "Yeah but Corbyn"

    Also yes, he clearly ignored scientific advice frequently. The sheer fact that we're the worst in Europe says it all. I mean the most obvious is that Dominic Cummings is put on the sodding Cobra/SAGE meetings. The guardian lays it out rather nicely though.


    https://archive.is/20200418182037/ht...ster-hq3b9tlgh
    I read the Guardian article.

    It didn’t cite any specific instances where Boris ignored the advice of the government’s OWN chief scientific advisers. Of course..some other scientists would have given different advice.

    The basic point I was making is that the governments chief scientific advisors generally are civil service appointments, not political appointments...the advice they gave would have been the same regardless of whichever political party was in power.

    The death count across Europe isn’t finalised yet...alas...and the stats are prepared on different criteria from country to country. If UK’s do end up the worst...then, of course, I will accept that crisis has been poorly managed in UK.

    But I Think it would indicate that we need a different civil service. (At least in this particular case. Though I’d prefer a Labour government for other reasons.)
    Last edited by JackDaw; 05-05-2020 at 09:43 AM.

  4. #154
    Invincible Jersey Ninja Tami's Avatar
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    Last week, the White House said Dr. Fauci was too busy to testify before the House.

    But just now, Trump said he's preventing Fauci from appearing before the House because, "the House is a set up. The House is a bunch of Trump haters."
    Twitter Link

    Baby Trump is crying again.
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  5. #155
    Astonishing Member jetengine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    I read the Guardian article.

    It didn’t cite any specific instances where Boris ignored the advice of the government’s OWN chief scientific advisers. Of course..some other scientists would have given different advice.

    The basic point I was making is that the governments chief scientific advises generally are civil service appointments, not political appointments...the advice they gave would have been the same regardless of whichever political party was in power.

    The death count across Europe isn’t finalised yet...alas...and the stats are prepared on different criteria from country to country, if UK’s do end up the worst...then, of course, I will accept that crisis has been poorly managed in UK.

    But I Think it would indicate that we need a different civil service. (At least in this particular case. Though I’d prefer a Labour government for other reasons.)
    Dominic Cummings isn't a scientist and is on a scientific advisory panel talking. That in itself is the first strike. The Herd immunity ridiculousness. Strike 2. Not testing is Strike 3.

    Throw the useless bastards out.

    Also its been declared today that we are indeed highest in death counts

  6. #156
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    Dominic Cummings isn't a scientist and is on a scientific advisory panel talking. That in itself is the first strike. The Herd immunity ridiculousness. Strike 2. Not testing is Strike 3.

    Throw the useless bastards out.
    Lol. How?

    Are you for storming the barricades now, or is it okay to wait for next General Election?

  7. #157
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starter Set View Post
    The Coronawesome virus.
    Guys, I'm all for black humor, but we literally have people sharing this board with us who have lost loved ones this week.

    Maybe "too soon" applies here?
    "How does the Green Goblin have anything to do with Herpes?" - The Dying Detective

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  8. #158
    Invincible Jersey Ninja Tami's Avatar
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    States moving forward with reopening are seeing increases in new coronavirus cases

    One month ago, seven states made up 60 percent of the coronavirus cases in the country. Most of those cases were in New York, the main U.S. hotbed of the outbreak. But an additional 28 percent of cases were in California, Florida, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Michigan and New Jersey.

    The good news is that the number of new cases those states have seen each day over the past month has steadily fallen. The bad news? That the number of new cases everywhere else has steadily increased.

    There’s some irony to this, given how these two groups of states are responding to calls from President Trump to scale back efforts to contain the spread of the virus. States that expect to keep restrictions in place aimed at encouraging social distancing — including most of the seven states above — have seen drops in the number of new daily cases relative to a month ago. States that have already begun to scale back those measures have seen a rapid increase in daily case totals relative to one month ago.
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  9. #159
    Astonishing Member jetengine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    Lol. How?

    Are you for storming the barricades now, or is it okay to wait for next General Election?
    General Election. Again, you seem keen to immediately jump to conclusions.

  10. #160
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    A Republican justice on the Wisconsin Supreme Court literally just compared that state's stay-at-home order to Korematsu and Japanese internment camps.
    https://twitter.com/imillhiser/statu...369225216?s=20
    "How does the Green Goblin have anything to do with Herpes?" - The Dying Detective

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  11. #161
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    General Election. Again, you seem keen to immediately jump to conclusions.
    Lol.

    You seem to jump to conclusions much faster than I do.

    Look at post I actually made about Jeremy...it wasn’t remotely critical.

    Similarly I asked you a question to clarify what you meant by “throw the useless bastards out”...I’d no real idea what you meant by that...asking a clarifying isn’t jumping to conclusions!

  12. #162
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    I can't believe the nuttiness in Venezuela made barely a blip. A 62 man group enters Venezuela, amongst them two green berets, with intent to oust Maduro and they just.... tweet it out to Donald Trump.

    https://twitter.com/venturecommunis/...321500161?s=21

    It didn't work. Venezuela captures most of them.

  13. #163
    Ultimate Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    Let me clarify something about my "all or nothing" argument. I did not mean that one should never demand everything. I just don't think that everything, and nothing, should be the only two options. Sure, the Democrats should demand National Health Care in their advertising and interviews on political news shows. But once they're in the negotiating room, you actually start negotiating. If you refuse to settle for anything less than everything you asked for, you'll usually get nothing. It's like the people who bring in items on Pawn Stars. If they refuse to come down from their initial offer, they usually don't sell the item.
    Watching television is not an activity.

  14. #164
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    I can't believe the nuttiness in Venezuela made barely a blip. A 62 man group enters Venezuela, amongst them two green berets, with intent to oust Maduro and they just.... tweet it out to Donald Trump.

    https://twitter.com/venturecommunis/...321500161?s=21

    It didn't work. Venezuela captures most of them.
    They should have picked a slow news year if they wanted fame.
    "How does the Green Goblin have anything to do with Herpes?" - The Dying Detective

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  15. #165
    Astonishing Member jetengine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    Lol.

    You seem to jump to conclusions much faster than I do.

    Look at post I actually made about Jeremy...it wasn’t remotely critical.

    Similarly I asked you a question to clarify what you meant by “throw the useless bastards out”...I’d no real idea what you meant by that...asking a clarifying isn’t jumping to conclusions!
    I say "Boris fucked up" you start talking about Jeremy Corbyn as if its relevant. Never once in my post did I say a thing about Corbyn. I was more surprised in my initial post that you were softballing Boris for his murderous bungling.

    Then I say throw the bastards out...because their doing a **** job. You then imply a violent revolution with your "storm the barricades" comment.

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