All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Joe Manchin letting folks know what time it actually is. If it wasn't such a bummer, it would actually be a little funny.

You mean Manchin hadn’t already split from the Democrats? He’s been a DINO (Democrat In Name Only) for years.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

You mean Manchin hadn’t already split from the Democrats? He’s been a DINO (Democrat In Name Only) for years.

He will do some things that shock people...like voting for Impeachment of Donald Trump (which in WV had people screaming) , pushing to get a bigger Covid package (which the Conservative brings up not happy) , telling Donald Trump he needs to concede the election. But its those rare times which shocks people.

[Steel Inquisitor]

You mean Manchin hadn’t already split from the Democrats? He’s been a DINO (Democrat In Name Only) for years.

He's the new Joe Liebermann, the conservative Democrat who would be a Republican but who is an ally because that provides more power for their own agenda. Democrats need politicians like this fo crucial votes because they need as man votes as possible to pass things. There will aways be a Joe Lieberman, politicians like that are too useful for the for the Democrats to throw away.

[Gray Lensman]

He's the new Joe Liebermann, the conservative Democrat who would be a Republican but who is an ally because that provides more power for their own agenda. Democrats need politicians like this fo crucial votes because they need as man votes as possible to pass things. There will aways be a Joe Lieberman, politicians like that are too useful for the for the Democrats to throw away.

Plus one other thing that doesn't get mentioned very much. Democrats are far more forgiving of breaks from the party line than Republicans. The latter can often label a member a RINO and endorse a primary challenger after the first break.

[thwhtGuardian]

I spent much of the day arguing back and forth on this.

In the morning, I wrote "I am always a bit suspicious about arguments to make Election Day a national holiday, which don't take into account that most elections were decided before November. It seems like an effort to get people involved when the race is between Republicans and Democrats, but not at the primary stage, when the race is more likely to determine the individual who will represent a district or a state."

Anyone could have said that the same policy should be extended to be primaries. But that's not the argument they make.

Tendrin and WBE went after me for being a Republican. Revolutionary_Jack did suggest that primaries should be treated diferently, writying "Obviously at the Primary level, it's the political parties and their base who vote for their candidates and give them party mandate...whereas on Election Day the entire country votes and decides on the ballot."

As for "who cares if the people pushing for might have ulterior motives if the end result is for the good?" there are a few responses.

It does matter if people are claiming to stand up for a principle when it's really about self-interest. The moral high ground has rhetorical power, so we should point out when the motives are less pure. We should be honest in all discussions, even if it doesn't favor our side.

The end result isn't necessarily for the good if we focus on one part of the process, but not the part that really determines the identity of the majority of officeholders. At that point, it seems like a distraction.

These aren't very good arguments at all, again if the end result is more people have an easier time voting what purpose does it serve to point out that the reasons for wanting to make that happen aren't pure? So you can oppose opening up the vote and not sound like you're doing it disenfranchise voters? It makes zero sense.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I'm no constitutional scholar, but I'm guessing a new amendment would be needed to stop the next Trump-like authoritarian from being elected. Problem is, any actions taken to prevent that madness from repeating itself is bound to be loudly and strongly opposed by the GOP who's made it clear they want to rule, not govern and will flat out kill any attempt to change the status quo. Make no mistake, even with Trump having been defeated, democracy in this country is still very much at risk as long as the Republican Party continues it's march towards total fascism.

You can't stop Trump like figures even with constitutional amendments.

As I have said multiple times, Ronald Reagan was Competent!Trump and yet nobody thinks of him as authoritarian or fascist because he played by the rules and still managed to shift US politics to the right in a big way, and mount a major backlash to the achievements and legacy of the '60s. Reagan won the popular vote and a large mandate.

That's the thing you need to be vigilant, that's all.

Ultimately, Trump failed, he lost at the ballot.

[DrNewGod]

America’s Next Authoritarian Will Be Much More Competent

We’ve talked about this quite a bit but Trump could have taken his authoritarian regime much farther if he wasn’t such an incompetent narcissist man-baby. Having another authoritarian populist getting close to the White House isn’t a matter of if but when. We know it will happen again in the near future (possibly even 2024). So is there anything we can do to inoculate our democracy in preparation for the next wannabe fascist strongman?

So many of our political norms were shattered because our constitution was not prepared for someone like Trump. We have very little time to prepare for the next disaster. I remember so many people (myself included) saying that it couldn’t get worse than Bush/Cheney. I don’t dare say that we won’t see anyone worse than Trump in our lives.

Yeah, the clock is already ticking on the possibility of another wannabe strongman getting a foot in the door of the Oval Office. I'm no constitutional scholar, but I'm guessing a new amendment would be needed to stop the next Trump-like authoritarian from being elected. Problem is, any actions taken to prevent that madness from repeating itself is bound to be loudly and strongly opposed by the GOP who's made it clear they want to rule, not govern and will flat out kill any attempt to change the status quo. Make no mistake, even with Trump having been defeated, democracy in this country is still very much at risk as long as the Republican Party continues it's march towards total fascism.

I'm of two minds on this.

Yes, the Trumpsters are angry, primed, and more vulnerable than ever to promises they want to hear from ruthless monsters. Moreover, Biden got a lot of Just Not That Current Guy support that's not guaranteed for next go-round. So unless Biden, et al. are shattering backboards on most of their drives on the goal, it could be dicey in 2022 and 2024. Remember, he's only got about 18 months to get things done before the mid-terms drown out anything else.

However, if Trump seemed to have a gift, it was a unique ability to sell the most incredulous of lies to his base. I'm not saying that a more competent authoritarian might not be able to figure out what that base wants to hear, but they might balk at some of the All In positions Trump was willing to take, and be more sensitive than Trump to potential consequences of their immediate actions.

One true wild-card in all this is Trump himself. Unless NYS stuffs him in a well-deserved hoosegow, he's going to continue to barrage whatever social media platform that will have him. If the last four years have taught us anything, it's that staying on Trump's good side is No Mean Feat. Any heir - even his sons - could wind up under siege from the right by doing something necessary that contradicts one of The Don's delusions, and from the left that see the heir as a puppet through which they have to endure more Trump.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Moreover, Biden got a lot of Just Not That Current Guy support that's not guaranteed for next go-round.

That's not necessarily the case. Biden has more than 50% of the pop. vote, i.e. a majority rather than a plurality. The "Just Not That Current Guy" can't completely explain that. It can explain HW's loss to Bill Clinton in '92 (where HW got ratf--ked by Ross Perot and Clinton only got a plurality, and HW was genuinely unpopular) but not this. Obama got a majority of the vote in 2008 and 2012, but neither Al Gore nor HRC got there, in their losing bids. In fact even JFK didn't get a majority in 1960. It's a great feat. Biden won because he got the "Obama's best friend" and "He's the best shot we got to Obama's 3rd Term" and "Kamala Harris is VP" votes. His ticket won this election because the Base genuinely were excited for it. Ultimately Biden won on the strength of the Democratic base. Republican defectors were not a major decisive factor in his win.

So unless Biden, et al. are shattering backboards on most of their drives on the goal, it could be dicey in 2022 and 2024. Remember, he's only got about 18 months to get things done before the mid-terms drown out anything else.

With Biden, he's got one thing in his favor. The Pfizer vaccine thing, if that turns out to be legit for realsies, then the distribution and disbursal of that, and so end of COVID and Pandemic, that happens on his watch. In other words he's poised to get his Iran Hostages Return moment and a major boost in approval.

The rest and so on...well that depends on a lot of stuff. Ultimately Biden's going to have to govern and govern like a fox, and the Dems have to aggressively blame everything bad that will happen on the mess the Republicans gave them. A) Because it's true, B) Because the Republicans have scapeogats in the SCOTUS and McConnell.

However, if Trump seemed to have a gift, it was a unique ability to sell the most incredulous of lies to his base. I'm not saying that a more competent authoritarian might not be able to figure out what that base wants to hear, but they might balk at some of the All In positions Trump was willing to take, and be more sensitive than Trump to potential consequences of their immediate actions.

One true wild-card in all this is Trump himself. Unless NYS stuffs him in a well-deserved hoosegow, he's going to continue to barrage whatever social media platform that will have him. If the last four years have taught us anything, it's that staying on Trump's good side is No Mean Feat. Any heir - even his sons - could wind up under siege from the right by doing something necessary that contradicts one of The Don's delusions, and from the left that see the heir as a puppet through which they have to endure more Trump.

It's not a given that authoritarianism and fascism are easily reproducible. Strong personalities like Trump don't always reproduce linearly. When Hitler died...that was it for the German far-right for a long time (until very recently with AfD, and even they don't have a Hitler). With Mussolini, something similar.

That's not to say the danger isn't real, but it's also a threat you can't anticipate right away, and you shouldn't make the mistake of overestimating someone. That can be just as bad as underestimating them.

[worstblogever]

On this date in 2014, "Crazy/Stupid Republican of the Day" ran a profile of of Michael Duvall, a former member of the California State Assembly who was a big supporter of Republican "family values" that compelled him to vote for Proposition 8 a few years back to "protect the sanctity of marriage". What he probably should have done to protect marriages, though, was to not get multiple mistresses to run around behind his wife's back with. This all came to light, and led to Duvall's resignation, after he was boasting about a new gal pal in the Assembly itself while a hot microphone picked up him boasting about the details to a colleague, including what panties his new paramour wore, and how she was into spanking. Adding to the seediness of the whole affair? This mystery woman turned out to be a lobbyist that he was literally in bed with. Anyway, Duvall resigned in disgrace back in 2010.

On this date in 2015, "Crazy/Stupid Republican of the Day" profiled Kathleen Tonn, a candidate for U.S. Senate in Alaska in the 2014 elections who appeared in a Youtube video where she blamed a perceived lack of growth of daisies in the natural flora in Alaska on the presidency of Barack Obama and his support of same sex marriage. For whatever reason, that insane correlation that flies in the face of the scientific method did not garner Ms. Tonn’s video a ton of views, go figure. She then also decided to prove her credentials as a candidate by posting a video where she went to a local sauna fully clothed, and “sang in tongues” to, as she later explained, “save” a woman therein, because thankfully Satan cannot decipher when Christians speak in tongues. Now, just because she didn’t get elected doesn’t mean that Kathleen Tonn has decided to fade away into obscurity just yet. She turned up at an Anchorage Assembly, where she pulled out a multitude of props to make a spectacle of herself, including a Bible, a trumpet, and a tampon. During her alotted time to speak, she angrily read a passage from the Second Epistle of Peter about the Judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah, and was outraged that the city was considering an ordinance for LGBTQ protections so people could not be fired for their sexual orientation. Instead, she asked them to consider an ordinance to protect against the real afflicted minority, people who speak in tongues which as far assignature issues go, is not one likely to see her ever elected to office.

On this date in 2016, “Crazy/Stupid Republican of the Day” published a profile about Richard Cash, a man who decided to challenge Senator Lindsay Graham in the 2014 GOP Primary for his seat in the Senate representing South Carolina, based on his qualifications of owning a fleet of ice cream trucks. Cash, as it stood, is a climate change denier, who felt there wasn't enough evidence to do anything about the phenomenon, and seemed more convinced that climate change scientists were running a "scam". We're going to go out on a limb and assume he only doesn't want to do anything about increasing temperatures because it would help him increase his ice cream sales. But what was far more concerning was that Richard Cash was quite the social conservative, to terrifying extremes. He was opposed to same sex marriage because "God designed men and women for a unique type of companionship", and he was a supporter of Personhood, which because he believes life begins at conception, he thus would prevent such "murders" by not just outlawing abortion, but most forms of birth control. How far to the lunatic fringe did his views on abortion get? While speaking before a Tea Party group on Martin Luther King Day, he referenced MLK's "I Have a Dream" speech, and then segued to his own "I Have a Dream" speech about preventing all abortions, and granting unborn babies Constitutional rights. Richard Cash finished third in that primary with only 8% of the vote, and seems to have gone back to slinging ice cream.

[worstblogever]

On this date in 2017, 2018, as well as 2019, “Crazy/Stupid Republican of the Day” had its first profile of Bryan Zollinger, who was first elected to the Idaho House of Representatives in 2016 with 66% of the vote to represent District 33B, after his predecessor Lindon Bateman was forced to retire due to term limits. And he has very quickly appeared on our radar after over the summer of 2016, telling several extreme lies, and sharing one of the most disgusting conspiracy theories that the Alt-Right/Neo-Nazi wing of the Republican Party could manage at the height of tensions in our country.

Charlottesville, Virginia saw a group of Neo-Nazis and White Nationalists in effect, plan a riot, showing up wielding torches, and several people appearing with homemade shields and clubs in early August. A few discussed online were documented as having discussed their desire to crash their cars or trucks into counter protesters who would show up to shout down their intolerant and disgusting views. And then, after a weekend where they terrorized the town, assaulted minorities, and law enforcement sat on their hands and let it all happen, one of the Neo-Nazis drove his car into a crowd of counter-protesters, killing lawyer and activist Heather Heyer in an act of domestic terrorism.

That’s the actual story. But in an alternate reality created by the villains of the actual story, the events in Charlottesville were a false flag operation orchestrated by Jewish billionaire George Soros, former President Barack Obama, Virginia Governor Terry MacAuliffe, Charlottesville Mayor Mike Signer, or some combination of them to make it seem like President Trump is racist. Bryan Zollinger shared that story on Facebook, with a post where he said it was “plausible”:

”I'm not saying it is true but I am suggesting that it is completely plausible. We know that many protestors were Soros funded and we also know that Donald Trump is not a racist. The man was in the public spotlight for twenty plus years with zero allegations of racism. He has clearly and unequivocally denounced by name these hate groups as he well should have. The media has chosen to push this narrative until even some of the president's own party are sucking up to the media, mind you only those that know they are part of the swamp that Trump avowed to drain. So while I'm not saying I believe the article, I'm glad to see someone out there asking people to think for themselves and use some logic and reason rather than spout what the media, otherwise known as the communications branch of the Democratic Party is selling.“

Now, we’ll also challenge the lie in Zollinger’s post that nobody has ever said Donald Trump is racist in “decades”. The first time his name is in a newspaper, he was being sued with his father for racial discrimination at his properties in the 1970s by the Nixon Administration. And you have to be racist for the Nixon administration to throw a flag, you know? But besides that… Zollinger even lending any credence to the conspiracy theory is nuts.

A few days after posting this insane conspiracy theory, on August 19th, 2017, Zollinger posted again, whining about the removal of Confederate statues, which is a great wedge issue to dig in on when you’re in f***ing Idaho, one of the states that most definitely wasn’t a part of the Confederacy, and is the furthest away from the Mason Dixon line in the continental United States. But hey, at least Zollinger deleted his post and backed down, right? Ha! No. This tool actually has bragged, without proof, that he has donors that specifically would donate money to his re-election in 2018 based on the number of negative Facebook comments and Twitter responses he got for his post.

By October of 2017, local reporters decided that maybe they should research Bryan Zollinger as much as possible, to find out how “out there” the little-known freshman lawmaker actually was. Lo and behold, an extensive criminal record was unearthed that included felony grand theft, misdemeanor driving under the influence, two misdemeanor malicious injury to property charges, and several other alcohol-related offenses. Zollinger’s conservative allies, though, attributed his criminal background to “youthful indiscretions”, because of course they do.

As a freshman lawmaker, we wish we had an extensive voting record on Zollinger to detail to further underline how twisted this guy is, but instead, all we can find on him politically outside of his sympathies towards conspiracy theorists and Neo-Nazis is he also spreads lies about the Affordable Care Act, and that reflected his sponsorship of a bill to target the Medicaid of Idaho residents. He also voted for “Stand Your Ground” laws to be applied in Idaho, as well as a vote to prevent courts from making “rulings based on foreign law”, because wouldn’t you know it, he’s a Islamophobic idiot who is paranoid about Sharia Law being a thing in the United States.

Zollinger also spent most of his first term in office campaigning to elect Congressman Raul Labrador to be Governor of Idaho when he wasn’t running south and leaving his state to go to college football games at the University of Utah, because… priorities Alas, rubbing elbows with White Supremacists is no longer a deal-breaker for Republican voters, and Zollinger was re-elected in 2018 with 59% of the vote.

He’s currently one of the big players in the Idaho state legislature on whether or not the state will finally approve the Medicaid expansion, and critics noted that maybe he should have recused himself from the debate and the vote, considering he’s a lawyer who represents a medical debt collection agency. Because why don’t we just add “corrupt” to the list of adjectives like “bigoted”, “dishonest” and “criminal” that we can use to describe Bryan Zollinger, while we’re at it?

We are relieved to report that since the last time we profiled Bryan Zollinger, he was presented with his first primary challenge since taking office in 2016, and mercifully, he was defeated by 134 votes by that challenger, Marco Erickson.

As of December 1st, this son of a b**** will no longer be in office, and we’d like to wish him our finest “GOOD RIDDANCE” salutes at this time.

[Robotman]

That's not necessarily the case. Biden has more than 50% of the pop. vote, i.e. a majority rather than a plurality. The "Just Not That Current Guy" can't completely explain that. It can explain HW's loss to Bill Clinton in '92 (where HW got ratf--ked by Ross Perot and Clinton only got a plurality, and HW was genuinely unpopular) but not this. Obama got a majority of the vote in 2008 and 2012, but neither Al Gore nor HRC got there, in their losing bids. In fact even JFK didn't get a majority in 1960. It's a great feat. Biden won because he got the "Obama's best friend" and "He's the best shot we got to Obama's 3rd Term" and "Kamala Harris is VP" votes. His ticket won this election because the Base genuinely were excited for it. Ultimately Biden won on the strength of the Democratic base. Republican defectors were not a major decisive factor in his win.



With Biden, he's got one thing in his favor. The Pfizer vaccine thing, if that turns out to be legit for realsies, then the distribution and disbursal of that, and so end of COVID and Pandemic, that happens on his watch. In other words he's poised to get his Iran Hostages Return moment and a major boost in approval.

The rest and so on...well that depends on a lot of stuff. Ultimately Biden's going to have to govern and govern like a fox, and the Dems have to aggressively blame everything bad that will happen on the mess the Republicans gave them. A) Because it's true, B) Because the Republicans have scapeogats in the SCOTUS and McConnell.



It's not a given that authoritarianism and fascism are easily reproducible. Strong personalities like Trump don't always reproduce linearly. When Hitler died...that was it for the German far-right for a long time (until very recently with AfD, and even they don't have a Hitler). With Mussolini, something similar.

That's not to say the danger isn't real, but it's also a threat you can't anticipate right away, and you shouldn't make the mistake of overestimating someone. That can be just as bad as underestimating them.

If the Pfizer vaccine is effective and the Biden administration handles the dispersal properly, that could be a defining moment and something Kamala can run with in 2024. That could be a legacy moment for the Biden/Harris administration.

Governing like a fox is one thing but a huge issue the democrats have in general is their inability to control the narrative of events. Basically their marketing sucks. The democrats need to find a way to streamline their message. Republicans have Fox News and social media bull horns but also one of Trump’s strengths was being blunt and creating a short and repetitive message (even if that message was a complete lie most of the time). A lot of people don’t know what the Dems even stand for. Affordable health care, environmental justice, better public education, etc should be things that are synonymous with democratic candidates. It’s amazing that they struggle so bad with something so essential.


As far as the next Trump-like candidate, I can actually see the GOP doing more of what they accuse liberals of doing. Grooming another right wing celebrity for the White House. They’ll need someone else to lead the cult of personality and utilizing celebrities like Reagan and Trump has been a very successful way of shifting the country to the right. They’re going to be in a tough spot trying to find someone from the usual GOP crop to fill Trump’s shoes. Going from a loud charismatic vulgarian to someone like Marco Rubio is not going to galvanize the base. Chris Pratt 2024?!?

[DrNewGod]

...A lot of people don’t know what the Dems even stand for. Affordable health care, environmental justice, better public education, etc should be things that are synonymous with democratic candidates. It’s amazing that they struggle so bad with something so essential.

That's the difficulty in running a Big Tent party.

[Godzilla2099]

Is this site legitimate? (I'm guessing the answer is a No looking at the structure of the page and how it has links to twitter posts without much proof)

https://everylegalvote.com/country

I see many Trump Supporters refer to it.

[Amadeus Arkham]

Governing like a fox is one thing but a huge issue the democrats have in general is their inability to control the narrative of events. Basically their marketing sucks. The democrats need to find a way to streamline their message. Republicans have Fox News and social media bull horns but also one of Trump’s strengths was being blunt and creating a short and repetitive message (even if that message was a complete lie most of the time). A lot of people don’t know what the Dems even stand for. Affordable health care, environmental justice, better public education, etc should be things that are synonymous with democratic candidates. It’s amazing that they struggle so bad with something so essential.

100% agree with this but speaking of fox.


Donnie has turned his back on his all-time favorite television network.



I think Trump will establish a rival right-wing propaganda network allows Trump TV just as a F-you to Fox News.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Democrats need to stop focusing on this meaningless **** and head to GA right now and get those Senate seats. Cruz and other Republicans are already fighting for them. Stop the fucking victory lap and win the war.