All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Mister Mets]

I appreciate that I get to be the guy that you quote to show everyone how CRAAAAYYY the far left is these days, but please, stop quoting me, I have zero interest in having any discussions with you.

Have I mischaracterized your views?

[PwrdOn]

Have I mischaracterized your views?

Why does anyone need you to characterize my views at all? My post is right there for everyone to read, if they have a problem with what I said then they can respond to me directly, you injecting yourself into this conversation contributes nothing.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

A silent Trump shows little sign of leading on pandemic, governing as he refuses to concede

Five years ago it would inconceivable that America would be in a situation where 230,000 people have died from a virus and a thousand people are dying a day, and all its President is doing about it is tweeting tin-foiled hat worthy conspiracy theories about voter fraud.

Well it wasn't inconcievable. A Pandemic was something that W. was worried about back in 2007-08, it was something Obama was worried about.

HRC said multiple times in her campaign that the possibility of a real crisis happening on Trump's watch was frightening.

[Steel Inquisitor]

I don't know about that, you seem to agree with Mets on quite a bit, seems like all you ever do is punch left and insist that doing anything positive would be going too far and would upset too many people to be feasible. If it were up to people like you, the party platform would be so watered down we might as well be living on one of those Pacific islands being swallowed by climate change, something you'd probably also suggest that we don't have enough political capital to do anything about.

I have more in common with Revolutionary_Jack then Mets. It's not "punching left" when refuting left wing dictatorship dogma and no, not all leftists do this. There are many leftists here that I don't argue that hard with and in fact agree with on many subjects. It's simply irresponsible to suggest that the left don't have there are own dishonest people, just like any group does. Not going full tilt autocrat is by no means proof that I'm wrong, being extreme like that just does the GOP's work for them since as much as I'd like the Dems to go as left as possible they don't have the luxury of doing that because it's political suicide. The left are slowly turning things around but this will be all for nothing if they implode because they're not getting everything right this second. The Democrats and the leadership have made massive mistakes and employee stupid and awful people in their ranks over the years, but the left will fall into the same traps when they don't do their own house cleaning and don't focus on actually governing - this is something many leftist politicians get more than their supporters (not all of them, of course) and they're going to be a rough ride unless they're able to figure out how to do bureaucracy right.

I'm still waiting for your opinion on the Uighurs, btw.

[Joker]

Well it wasn't inconcievable. A Pandemic was something that W. was worried about back in 2007-08, it was something Obama was worried about.

HRC said multiple times in her campaign that the possibility of a real crisis happening on Trump's watch was frightening.

Yeah, this situation had been looming. Not Covid specifically, but a viral pandemic. It does happen, even if it's wildly rare. But we were due, and the people in charge knew this.

Granted, I think we'd still be in deep **** with W. or Obama in charge. No nation, outside of small islands has escaped. I don't think the anti maskers would have behaved any differently if Obama told them to wear masks. Even if it were an enforceable national law.

Still, wouldn't be as bad. The president, whoever it may have been, would actually care. Even W.

[Mister Mets]

Why does anyone need you to characterize my views at all? My post is right there for everyone to read, if they have a problem with what I said then they can respond to me directly, you injecting yourself into this conversation contributes nothing.

I did have a problem with what you said, and responded to you directly.

Someone else then criticized me for suggesting anyone could hold the views I described.

This is a public forum. I do try to avoid criticizing individuals, and focus on the arguments. I think I've done that here.

Others take a different approach. If I feel that a criticism of me as an individual is mistaken, I will often sometimes that out. If this bothers people, the solution is to focus on the argument, and not on the individual making it.

[Amadeus Arkham]

Well it wasn't inconcievable. A Pandemic was something that W. was worried about back in 2007-08, it was something Obama was worried about.

HRC said multiple times in her campaign that the possibility of a real crisis happening on Trump's watch was frightening.

I’m aware of Bush and Obama’s worries and contingencies for a pandemic. Never said that a pandemic of this sort wasn’t conceivable, I’m only specifically speaking about a situation where we’re in a crisis of this magnitude and President has barely done anything about it despite the death toll being as high as it is. I don’t think HRC could’ve imagined five years ago that Trump would handle things this bad.

[PwrdOn]

I have more in common with Revolutionary_Jack then Mets. It's not "punching left" when refuting left wing dictatorship dogma and no, not all leftists do this. There are many leftists here that I don't argue that hard with and in fact agree with on many subjects. It's simply irresponsible to suggest that the left don't have there are own dishonest people, just like any group does. Not going full tilt autocrat is by no means proof that I'm wrong, being extreme like that just does the GOP's work for them since as much as I'd like the Dems to go as left as possible they don't have the luxury of doing that because it's political suicide. The left are slowly turning things around but this will be all for nothing if they implode because they're not getting everything right this second. The Democrats and the leadership have made massive mistakes and employee stupid and awful people in their ranks over the years, but the left will fall into the same traps when they don't do their own house cleaning and don't focus on actually governing - this is something many leftist politicians get more than their supporters (not all of them, of course) and they're going to be a rough ride unless they're able to figure out how to do bureaucracy right.

I'm still waiting for your opinion on the Uighurs, btw.

Why exactly do we need people like you to tone police online discussions again? Now we're at the point where we can't even talk about left wing ideas here, anonymously on a goddamned comic book forum that virtually no one in the general public has even heard of, without being lectured by self-appointed political experts about how this is going to upset middle American swing voters, who aren't reading this forum either.

I did have a problem with what you said, and responded to you directly.

Someone else then criticized me for suggesting anyone could hold the views I described.

This is a public forum. I do try to avoid criticizing individuals, and focus on the arguments. I think I've done that here.

Others take a different approach. If I feel that a criticism of me as an individual is mistaken, I will often sometimes that out. If this bothers people, the solution is to focus on the argument, and not on the individual making it.

Whatever bro, if you actually cared about this issue, or any other issue, in any real sense you'd spend more time actually discussing the substance of it rather than using every post to pull some lame wannabe Ben Shapiro act.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Yeah, this situation had been looming. Not Covid specifically, but a viral pandemic. It does happen, even if it's wildly rare. But we were due, and the people in charge knew this.

Granted, I think we'd still be in deep **** with W. or Obama in charge. No nation, outside of small islands has escaped. I don't think the anti maskers would have behaved any differently if Obama told them to wear masks. Even if it were an enforceable national law.

Still, wouldn't be as bad. The president, whoever it may have been, would actually care. Even W.

With Obama in charge...the Defense Protection Act would have been activated on Day 1. He'd have worked to make sure governors and states got the stuff they needed. None of the bidding war between states that Jared Kushner encouraged. Obama would have attended daily Coronavirus briefings and kept a consistent message.

The anti-mask movement and anti-lockdown stuff in red states, that would have happened and it would have taken a racial charge, as always is the case with the GOP when they dealt with him. But even with all the difficulties and so on, it would not have been this bad.

I’m aware of Bush and Obama’s worries and contingencies for a pandemic. I’m only specifically speaking about a situation where the President has barely done anything about it despite the death toll being as high as it is. I don’t think HRC could’ve imagined five years ago that Trump would handle things this bad.

Trump's evil often baffles everyone. It's like you expected him to be evil to an extent but an outright supervillain with a body count worthy of Luthor or Joker is off the scale.

[Mister Mets]

Why exactly do we need people like you to tone police online discussions again? Now we're at the point where we can't even talk about left wing ideas here, anonymously on a goddamned comic book forum that virtually no one in the general public has even heard of, without being lectured by self-appointed political experts about how this is going to upset middle American swing voters, who aren't reading this forum either.



Whatever bro, if you actually cared about this issue, or any other issue, in any real sense you'd spend more time actually discussing the substance of it rather than using every post to pull some lame wannabe Ben Shapiro act.

But I do care about the issue of policing. I disagreed with what you said about it, and pointed it out.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Why exactly do we need people like you to tone police online discussions again? Now we're at the point where we can't even talk about left wing ideas here, anonymously on a goddamned comic book forum that virtually no one in the general public has even heard of, without being lectured by self-appointed political experts about how this is going to upset middle American swing voters, who aren't reading this forum either.

Left wing ideas are welcome, no-one is saying they can't be made but this being a public forum people have the right to disagree - especially when they're very extreme. I'm no political expert, but I feel it would be incredibly irresponsible to have nobody here acknowledge bad ideas from the left when they appear. Like, for instance, gulags.

But don't take my word for it, take AOC's. She got where she is by pushing things like the New Green Deal, she didn't put on a beret and a machine gun while shouting "Put landlords against the wall." The latter is political suicide for the left. All it does is give the GOP anti-Communist propaganda and weakens the Democrats.

Personally, I'm not to inclined to let comments supporting left wing regimes known for sending LGBT to death camps anywhere even on comic book forums. A genre defined by super-heroes fighting tyrants, rather than boosting them.

Media forums are also worth analysing politically, and may signal what is going to happen in the future. For instance, conservatives attack on Janelle Asselin on CBR from the forums in 2014, which was eerily similar to Gamergate, a movement which began in 2013 against Zoe Quinn that would one day become an event which would gain traction in national news.

What I'd love to hear is an argument against what I said in that post rather than moving the goal posts, please proceed.

[PwrdOn]

But I do care about the issue of policing. I disagreed with what you said about it, and pointed it out.

Nah, I don't think you actually do. Because if you did, then you'd be putting forward your own ideas about what to do to fix the problems with policing in this country, rather than just trying to harp on what I said.

Left wing ideas are welcome, no-one is saying they can't be made but this being a public forum people have the right to disagree - especially when they're very extreme. I'm no political expert, but I feel it would be incredibly irresponsible to have nobody here acknowledge bad ideas from the left when they appear. Like, for instance, gulags.

But don't take my word for it, take AOC's. She got where she is by pushing things like the New Green Deal, she didn't put on a beret and a machine gun while shouting "Put landlords against the wall." The latter is political suicide for the left. All it does is give the GOP anti-Communist propaganda and weakens the Democrats.

Personally, I'm not to inclined to let comments supporting left wing regimes known for sending LGBT to death camps anywhere even on comic book forums. A genre defined by super-heroes fighting tyrants, rather than boosting them.

Media forums are also worth analysing politically, and may signal what is going to happen in the future. For instance, conservatives attack on Janelle Asselin on CBR from the forums in 2014, which was eerily similar to Gamergate, a movement which began in 2013 against Zoe Quinn that would one day become an event which would gain traction in national news.

What I'd love to hear is an argument against what I said in that post rather than moving the goal posts, please proceed.

Superhero comics are all about really powerful people using extreme violence to solve problems, and somehow even the mere suggestion of putting landlords against a wall is too much for you to handle? Also, gonna need some citations on those left-wing regimes putting LGBT in death camps.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Also, gonna need some citations on those left-wing regimes putting LGBT in death camps.

Cuba did put LGBTQ in camps, not death camps, but they did do that. Granted Castro later apologized for it and reversed that homophobia but it did happen.

[Amadeus Arkham]

Trump's evil often baffles everyone. It's like you expected him to be evil to an extent but an outright supervillain with a body count worthy of Luthor or Joker is off the scale.

I perhaps naively hoped that almost dying of the virus in early October would prompt change in Trump, and hopefully he’d take on a more responsible approach to the virus....


Boy was I wrong. Dead wrong.

[PwrdOn]

Cuba did put LGBTQ in camps, not death camps, but they did do that. Granted Castro later apologized for it and reversed that homophobia but it did happen.

Socialist governments haven't always had the most enlightened attitudes toward homosexuality, often viewing it as another form of bourgeois decadence, but it should be fairly obvious that the persecution of gays in these countries was merely an extension of pre-existing cultural attitudes and didn't happen because of anything inherent to Marxist ideology. If anything, the condition of LGBT rights in most of the former Soviet bloc has become far worse since the USSR fell, since that heralded a resurgence of nationalist and traditionalist ideologies which ARE inherently hostile to homosexuality.