All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Joker]

So over 130 Secret Service have been infected after Trump's campaign rallies.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

So over 130 Secret Service have been infected after Trump's campaign rallies.

I feel genuinely bad for these guys. They really have no choice.

They are meant to protect the person of the POTUS and his family, no matter who he is, and it's absolutely important that they do that even for Trump. And in exchange for that professionalization and dedication they get a guy who doesn't give a damn about them, who has likely damaged their health long-term and compromised the safety of the entire organization.

[PaulBullion]

I'd say that the Georgia run off races are up-in-the-air, that it could go either way. I doubt there would be many who would change their minds or their votes, but turnout is another issue.

a) Republican voters are discouraged or turned off because Trump lost and has been silent for so long. Democrats, on the other hand, are charged up over how well they did. - In this scenario, one or both Democrats win the sneate race.

b) Republican voters are angry and determined not to hand the senate to the Democrats. Democratic Voters are also still charged up and the voter turnout on both sides is high. - In this scenario, the Republicans stand a slightly better chance of winning, but it will be close.

c) Republican turnout is high (see b), yet for some reason (I can't pinpoint any one reason for that to happen) the Democratic turnout drops. - In this scenario, both Republican candidates win easily.

I can't say if money will play a role in this, except to encourage those who didn't vote the first tiem or those who voted for the 3rd party candidates to vote either Democrat or Republican. If it is a close race, then that could be an issue.

In the end it is still about Trump, and Biden. Those who don't like Trump will want to give the Senate control to the Democrats. Those who don't like or trust Biden will want to keep the Senate control in the hands of the Republicans.

Those who don't care one way or another will just vote the same as they did before or not vote at all.

An Atlanta friend of mine is pretty pessimistic on the Democrats' chances. He says Democratic voters only turn out for presidential elections in Georgia.

[PaulBullion]

This is entertaining:

Trump lawyers appear to have filed a lawsuit in the wrong court, sending what was supposed to be a Michigan suit to a special D.C. federal court that only hears monetary claims against the federal government.

[Tami]

An Atlanta friend of mine is pretty pessimistic on the Democrats' chances. He says Democratic voters only turn out for presidential elections in Georgia.

Then again, if it's vote by mail then maybe they will vote in higher numbers.

[BeastieRunner]

This is entertaining:

Trump lawyers appear to have filed a lawsuit in the wrong court, sending what was supposed to be a Michigan suit to a special D.C. federal court that only hears monetary claims against the federal government.

Well another lawyer on his team resigned and yet another got COVID.

Mistakes are gonna happen when you're rudderless and stupid.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Then again, if it's vote by mail then maybe they will vote in higher numbers.

https://insideelections.com/news/art...y-be-different

There is reason to be hopeful this time around, at the very least it will be competitive.

Georgia's runoff elections have tended to go the GOP's way, but in 2018 the runoff margins were way closer than before, and this without a big ticket candidate like Obama or Governor Candidate Abrams on the ticket.

So turnout for runoffs for Dems increased in 2018 and that was pre-Pandemic.

Anything can happen between now and Jan 5. Let's see. The Dems have a chance I think.

[Jack Dracula]

I think it likely that W, Obama, or HRC would have listened to their pandemic team and started quarantining travel from various countries, beginning with China, much earlier. I also think it more likely their pandemic team would have implemented a thorough contact tracing program.
Of course, for HRC and Obama, that last would have had the right screaming "The Death Panels Are Coming!"

I’m imaging all the “Secret Muslim Obama wants American Women to cover their faces!” nonsense.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I’m imaging all the “Secret Muslim Obama wants American Women to cover their faces!” nonsense.

Ooh...you nasty.

[PwrdOn]

Because they are a threat. Cutting them loose them will only drive them further into the arms of the alt-right possibly as warm bodies for right wing militias or possibly as leaders that will further organize these groups into something worse. If the cops go totally in for the far-right, it will only make the current problems worse since it will strengthen the paramilitary aspects of the right, which is something that the Left can't deal with. What needs to happen is a strategy to isolate these problems and deal with them accordingly.

So pretty much, the police are basically a fascist gang that is holding the nation hostage with the implicit threat of doing even more violence if we cut them loose? And this means that we should keep giving them MORE funding and the legal cover to keep brutalizing people? And what would we think if any other public institutions behaved this way? Can you imagine what the reaction would have been if the USPS and Amtrak had been sending veiled threats of sabotage if their funding had been cut, which it has repeatedly been? Also, just try to slow play this issue isn't going to work, because while there are good cops, the general atmosphere in a lot of these departments means that the bad cops tend to push out the good ones, particularly those that speak out against police brutality, and so over time you'll see more and more of the cops with moral qualms about what they're asked to do leaving, while the remaining hardliners double down on the extreme tactics, all while we keep throwing more and more money at them in the hope that they'll change someday.

The best strategy to deal with these problems is honestly rather simple - on a mass scale, people just need to stop cooperating with the police altogether. Of course they will respond with increased repression, but if enough people get behind this idea of simply pretending like the police don't even exist, then they will find it increasingly difficult to maintain their authority, and once this weakness becomes evident even their supporters will desert them because a police force that can't keep all the peasants in line isn't a police force that's worth supporting. Obviously this has the potential to go really badly if we don't go in with a plan, and of course we will have to establish community organizations that are able to settle disputes peaceably and fairly so that we can still maintain order without having to resort to calling the cops.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

The best strategy to deal with these problems is honestly rather simple - on a mass scale, people just need to stop cooperating with the police altogether. Of course they will respond with increased repression, but if enough people get behind this idea of simply pretending like the police don't even exist, then they will find it increasingly difficult to maintain their authority, and once this weakness becomes evident even their supporters will desert them because a police force that can't keep all the peasants in line isn't a police force that's worth supporting. Obviously this has the potential to go really badly if we don't go in with a plan, and of course we will have to establish community organizations that are able to settle disputes peaceably and fairly so that we can still maintain order without having to resort to calling the cops.

Not trying to be a d-ck here, rather a devil's advocate, but your strategy in real life was in fact put into effect. Those "community organizations that are able to settle disputes peaceably and fairly so that we can still maintain order without having to resort to calling the cops" was in fact attempted multiple times by different groups. In time they became the Mafia, Cosa Nostra, the Jewish Mob, the Italian Mob, the Chinese-American Mob.

GOODFELLAS spells it out:
That was it. No more letters from truant officers. No more letters from school. In fact, no more letters from anybody. How could I go back to school after that and pledge allegiance to the flag and sit through good government bullshit. Hundreds of guys depended on Paulie and he got a piece of everything they made. It was tribute, just like the old country, except they were doing it in America. All they got from Paulie was protection from other guys looking to rip them off. That’s what it’s all about. That’s what the FBI can never understand, that what Paulie and the organization does is offer protection for people who can’t go to the cops. They’re like the police department for wiseguys.
— Henry Hill


The drive towards community policing and so on, that can be done, but let's also keep in mind perspectives about what the language we are using refers to.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

This is entertaining:

Trump lawyers appear to have filed a lawsuit in the wrong court, sending what was supposed to be a Michigan suit to a special D.C. federal court that only hears monetary claims against the federal government.

The moral of this story? You can’t fix stupid.

[PwrdOn]

Not trying to be a d-ck here, rather a devil's advocate, but your strategy in real life was in fact put into effect. Those "community organizations that are able to settle disputes peaceably and fairly so that we can still maintain order without having to resort to calling the cops" was in fact attempted multiple times by different groups. In time they became the Mafia, Cosa Nostra, the Jewish Mob, the Italian Mob, the Chinese-American Mob.

GOODFELLAS spells it out:
That was it. No more letters from truant officers. No more letters from school. In fact, no more letters from anybody. How could I go back to school after that and pledge allegiance to the flag and sit through good government bullshit. Hundreds of guys depended on Paulie and he got a piece of everything they made. It was tribute, just like the old country, except they were doing it in America. All they got from Paulie was protection from other guys looking to rip them off. That’s what it’s all about. That’s what the FBI can never understand, that what Paulie and the organization does is offer protection for people who can’t go to the cops. They’re like the police department for wiseguys.
— Henry Hill


The drive towards community policing and so on, that can be done, but let's also keep in mind perspectives about what the language we are using refers to.

Well if a guy in a movie said it, it must be true, right? And here I was thinking that the mob was just nothing more than a bunch of hoodlums who gained their authority just by being more violent than anyone else and didn't have a reputation for being particularly peaceful or fair. Though really, the comparison between the police and the mob is quite apt, because in both cases they hold the community hostage by "protecting" them from problems that they themselves are largely responsible for creating. Of course, this is a racket that countless armed gangs have been running since as far back as anyone can remember, but that doesn't mean that anyone ever actually believed their bullshit about keeping the peace, people just went along with the scam because they had no other choice.

[The no face guy]

So over 130 Secret Service have been infected after Trump's campaign rallies.

and that is why President Trump lost the election, because he is an irresponsible, erratic, narcissistic mentally unstable individual who believes in right wing conspiracy theories.

Covid is running through the most important office in the world (Whitehouse) because it's being run by an incompetent idiot.

Trump is a con man who tapped into people's anxiety about unemployment and immigration to get elected, he was smart enough to get in the game, but not sane enough to stay in it.

The sooner he gets the boot from the Whitehouse the better!

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Well if a guy in a movie said it, it must be true, right? And here I was thinking that the mob was just nothing more than a bunch of hoodlums who gained their authority just by being more violent than anyone else and didn't have a reputation for being particularly peaceful or fair. Though really, the comparison between the police and the mob is quite apt, because in both cases they hold the community hostage by "protecting" them from problems that they themselves are largely responsible for creating. Of course, this is a racket that countless armed gangs have been running since as far back as anyone can remember, but that doesn't mean that anyone ever actually believed their bullshit about keeping the peace, people just went along with the scam because they had no other choice.

The thing is that sentimental idea of the mob you see in movies and so on, that's not completely untrue.

Criminal organizations and gangsters have cultivated support from communities by "doing him favors" here and there. Al Capone ran soup kitchens in the '20s you know, the Yakuza in Japan help with Earthquake relief. In American history, gangsters and mobsters originated in immigrant communities banding together to protect themselves against a corrupt police system and authority. This also applies to the street gangs of LA, you know the Bloods and the Crips.

It's a difficult thing to accept but organized crime did actually originate from the same anti-police drive and favor that we now apply today. It's not the same thing or equivalent but it's adjacent to it.