All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Joker]

Yeah, I did not let Donald Trump take away my enjoyment of other things in life. I did not let politics consume me. I paid attention, but I also took the time for other things.

[Amadeus Arkham]

About Trump conceding I don't think he will. He will just phase out himself quietly by January 20th. I have this feeling Trump may even exit the Whitehouse in the middle of the night, 2 days before Biden's inauguration.

It’s ultimately won’t matter in terms of Biden’s ability to become President but Trump’s refusal to concede may engender some of the crazies in Trump’s base to do some dangerous things.

[worstblogever]

On this date in 2014, "Crazy/Stupid Republican of the Day" ran a profile of Haley Barbour, who early in his career, was confronted with the knowledge that one of his aides had referred to African Americans as “coons”, and responded to that fact by telling the New York Times reporter who asked him about it that the aide “deserved to be reincarnated as a watermelon and placed at the mercy of blacks”. So it should come as little surprise that during his run for Mississippi governor in 2003, that he was featured on the website of the Neo-Confederate group, the Council of Conservative Citizens, and Barbour has been a staunch defender of the Confederate flag remaining a part of the “heritage” of the Mississippi state flag. Barbour also argued against the repeal of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” because he thought gay soldiers would have amorous thoughts in the middle of a key firefight, funneled Hurricane Katrina relief money to his closest friends and allies, and controversially pardoned 208 violent criminals in his last 48 hours in office, and their full pardons also meant that the several rapists amongst that group would also be able to re-enter society without having to register as sex offenders. Barbour is still a force to be reckoned with in Mississippi politics, but these days does so as the “power behind the throne” rather than being elected in office himself.


In 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, and in 2019, “Crazy/Stupid Republican of the Day” posted profiles of Terry Baxter, a last-minute entry into the race for District 8 of the Iowa House of Representatives in the 2014 elections, getting thrown on the ballot as an emergency replacement for long-time incumbent Henry Rayhons. Only two months into his tenure that Baxter turned some heads when he sponsored a gun bill that would remove the age restriction Iowa has on gun ownership so toddlers could pack heat if their parents chose to allow it, and also sponsored a resolution to propose an Amendment to the Iowa state Constitution that would recognize the “right to life of every person at every stage of development” that sounds like Personhood, and a flagrant violation of the Supreme Court’s authority regarding the Roe v. Wade decision. Oh, and for whatever reason, he also submitted a bill outlaw professional midwifery in Iowa, which is a bizarre approach to someone so extremely "pro-life". Baxter took to social media to opine that the Supreme Court's Obergefell v. Hodges ruling had “crucified both freedom of speech and the freedom of religion as guaranteed in our constitution” and added the alarmist lie that preaching from the Bible “can now be prosecuted as legally incorrect" as part of an extended rant on the subject.

Baxter has not calmed down in more recent years as a member of the Iowa House of Representatives, either, having sponsored a bill to nullify the Environmental Protection Agency (Hint: you can’t nullify federal law, we had a Civil War over that), another to try and prevent the sale of fetal tissue after abortions, and another Personhood bill.

He also voted a fetal heartbeat bill aimed at banning abortion at six weeks, and during debate on the floor of the Iowa House, blamed abortions for Iowa’s declining school enrollments, worker shortage and insufficient payments into Social Security. Suffice to say, he’s still a fanatic and in 2020, he continued his bigoted pursuit of anti-LGBTQ legislation, including a bill that targeted transgender children and tried banning them from participated in competitive school athletics.

Alas, Baxter’s district is rural, and that means he can easily be re-elected even during a year like 2020 with 75% of the vote. He will continue to imagine new ways to put more guns in more hands into the hands of younger and younger people (at this point, the fetuses he’s obsessed with protecting).

[Wildling]

About entertainment, and while a minor loss compared to, well, everything else, I'll never forgive Trump for his censorship bitching of Blumhouse's The Hunt making Universal delay it to 2020 right into the opening mouth of the pandemic, that to the bitter end he's contributed to allow it to thrive.

Maybe it was never going to break out big last year, but it would have made more money. At least I hope Betty Gilpin sticks around, and The Invisible Man got to make enough money during like 3/4 of its run when theaters closed on it.

[CJStriker]

”Biden already doing Better on the Pandemic then Trump!

[thwhtGuardian]

There's a bit of a misunderstanding here, with a perception that because I suspect a particular flaw, I'm willing to engage in it myself should it benefit my side. I think it would be wrong to use higher moral claims as pretext for something else regardless of whether it helps Democrats or Republicans. Just because I think some Democrats will occasionally do something doesn't mean I'll try it (nor does it mean that I think Republicans will never try it.)

I'll also note that I don't suggest that everyone who wants Election Day to be a holiday is doing so for bad reasons. I'm sure many people make that argument in good faith, and that's especially true of the people on this board, who are mainly amateurs, rather than political campaigners, whose job involves making things more advantageous for their side.

I could reasonably come to a conclusion that moderates do perform better in political races. We could see that in 2020 when Susan Collins outperformed Trump. I'll be very curious to see how prominent progressive members of Congress did in compared to Biden.

I would imagine that when someone loses a race that they're heavily favored to win, they would consider how they screwed up.

When I said Republicans outperformed Democrats in the Georgia senate races, I just means that Perdue got more votes than Ossoff, and that the combined Republicans in the special election got more votes than the combined Democrats. I wasn't suggesting that Perdue or Loeffler ran better campaigns or anything like that. Georgia may have been redder in the past (at the moment, it's about three points more conservative than the national average) and Democrats have done pretty well in the state, but what makes a difference to who controls government is who wins in January.


In the back and forth a few days back, something that was largely ignored was the argument about why Election Day shouldn't be a national holiday.

My argument was about how people overlook the significance of primaries in American politics. But we can also consider the downsides of making a new Holiday.

There are productivity losses with an additional day off work, and costs for employers. I know some jurisdictions get around that by swapping Election Day for Columbus Day, but this does require people giving up a three day weekend for a Tuesday off. I'm not sure how many people want to do that.

There is the whole question of whether it's necessary. Turnout's been pretty good in recent elections, and the last election showed the advantages of increased early voting and mail-in ballots, things that aren't actually done on the first Tuesday after the first Monday on November. Much of the process of elections doesn't actually occur on Election Day. People have to learn about the issues, and register to vote.

There is a practical question of how many additional people will be voting if it's a holiday. Those who don't vote would still have to register, and learn about the issues. They'll also still have plenty of temptation to just stay home, or do what they could otherwise do with a Tuesday off (if Monday is a personal day, that's a four-day weekend.)

You may disagree with me, but I have clearly articulated a concern that making one type of elections but not another into a national holiday is pushing people to have greater involvement in one type of race and not another, when primaries do determine more winners than general elections do. This is something that will benefit some people in politics and not others.

I'll note that I don't know what the effects of greater involvement in primaries will be. Perhaps ordinary people will be more likely to vote against their elected representatives for dumb and ignorant reasons. Perhaps they'll be more ignorant about politics than activists, and more likely to vote for the incumbents that they recognize. Perhaps it'll lead to a greater appreciation for how government works, and a populace better able to keep elected officials accountable.

Productivity and cost to employers are pretty poor arguments against making elections and primaries holidays.

[DrNewGod]

About Trump conceding I don't think he will. He will just phase out himself quietly by January 20th. I have this feeling Trump may even exit the Whitehouse in the middle of the night, 2 days before Biden's inauguration.

I hope that you're right. But he hasn't done anything quietly so far.

ETA: didn't Adams (POTUS 2) slip out of town in the dark in the night, rather than participate in Jefferson's inauguration?

[Robotman]

I hope that you're right. But he hasn't done anything quietly so far.

Yeah there’s no way at he does anything quietly. He hasn’t stopped campaigning since 2015. He will continue to hold his hate rallies and try to get as much attention as possible. I would love to think that the media would stop covering his antics now that he’s lost but I’m sure he’ll continue to get plenty of free promotion. he will say that he’s running again in 2024 to take back the country from the democrats who stole the election. He’ll continue the conspiracy theories about voter fraud. But it will all probably be just a bargaining chip for his planned media venture.

He will be 78 in 2024, so here’s hoping that all the Adderall and the horrible diet finally catch up with him and he doesn’t have the strength to cause chaos in the next election cycle.

[Kirby101]

Forget campaigning for 2024, Trump will spend the next four years in Court. And hopefully some behind bars.

[CJStriker]

Forget campaigning for 2024, Trump will spend the next four years in Court. And hopefully some behind bars.

[Amadeus Arkham]

I’d strangely don’t mind if Donald Trump doesn’t concede. Dude’s too much of a sore loser to concede defeat publicly. That dude’s ego is easier to break than an eggshell. Once Trump leaves the White House, I wonder what’s next for him? I suppose he could start his own right-wing propaganda network which could hopefully keep his hands tied enough to prevent him from running in 2024.

Though even if Trump ran in 2024, while he’s almost certainly could clinch the nomination again, I don’t think he’d have the luxury of having voters underestimating him like in 2016. Part of the reason he won is simply because too many voters simply didn’t think he’d ever have a shot at the White House; causing them not to take him seriously enough. Not to mention, he also benefited from being an outsider who wasn’t part of any establishment. That made him very attractive to those who were tired of the status quo at Washington, and were looking for a chance of pace - even if it was at the expense of basic competency. With Trump becoming more of a conventional Republican than and largely abandoning his populist rhetoric, the illusion of him being an outsider is gone and we now have the precedent of a Donald Trump Presidency to attack him on. Heck, I argue the man has more scandals in four years than most career politicians have in their 30-something years. So Trump would have all of this going against him like he did in 2020(that ultimately cost him re-election). Now do I think about it, I kind of would want him to run again just to see him lose again.

[Steel Inquisitor]

As a Canadian, I make it a rule of thumb not to watch too much American media (Fox/CNN) because I find they are unobjective cheer leading machines for Republicans or Democrats, I'll take your word on Fox though.

Consequently, Republican or Democratic moderates once in power, have to absorb some of the ideas of the hardliners to keep them happy, and although the Bush administration had some disturbing authoritarian policies, as a whole they kept the right wing Buchannan nationalists in the party isolated, to the point the grassroots had a revolt, and ousted Jeb for Trump. If Biden and Harris completely isolate the Alexandria Cortez's from the party they will run into the same problem.

Now I am going to tread lightly hear, because I know as an American cousin you are living in a more right wing climate than I am, so I shall just say this....

Once you start to see the other side of the political spectrum as evil and your mortal enemy, it's a good sign that your probably adopting some hardline or extremist political views. Moderate conservatives are your rivals, your intellectual adversaries that your in a duel to defeat, because at the end of the day politics is about power. (I will concede that Karl Rove is evil though for advocating unlimited lobbying)

The far right and left are different, in that you are the enemy if you dissent from their worldview. Two examples, 1) Watch the footage of the SJW's who attacked the mayors apartment in Portland after he tried to have a sit in with them, because he thought he could be there friends. 2) Look at the Trump train goons who almost ran a woman of the road Texas, because Democrats didn't belong in "their territory."

I can reason with a moderate and have an intellectually challenging discussion that will end politely and promptly...you can't engage in a rational discourse with political extremists. They are so reverent in their beliefs that they will keep gunning for you.

You should, then you would know that only Republicans have propaganda channels the Democrats don't.

How much do you know about the moderate Republicans?

Karl Rove isn't even the most evil person in W.'s administration, that'd be Dick Cheney.

I'm curious, who you support in Canada? Is it the Tories?

[Mister Mets]

I’d strangely don’t mind if Donald Trump doesn’t concede. Dude’s too much of a sore loser to concede defeat publicly. That dude’s ego is easier to break than an eggshell. Once Trump leaves the White House, I wonder what’s next for him? I suppose he could start his own right-wing propaganda network which could hopefully keep his hands tied enough to prevent him running in 2024.

Though even if Trump ran in 2024, while he’s almost certainly could clinch the nomination again, I don’t think he’d have the luxury of having voters underestimating him like in 2016. Part of the reason he won is simply because too many voters simply didn’t think he’d ever have a shot at the White House therefore not take him seriously. Notice how strong his opposition was in 2020 compared to 2016 and ended up losing by a big margin. Now to mention, he also benefited from being an outsider who wasn’t part of any establishment. That outsider status is gone now with him governing very much like a normal Republican, and we have four years of a Donald Trump Presidency to hold to scrutiny. I think I kind of would want him to run again just to see him lose again.

Trump's numbers in 2016 were pretty close to what they were in 2020. In 2016, he won four states by less than one point each. In 2020, he lost four points by less than one point each. If he had kept every state he lost by less than one percent, he would still have 289 electoral votes.

At the moment, his biggest problem running again is probably his petulance in refusing to acknowledge the election results, and the damage it's doing for democracy and national security (delaying the Biden administration access to classified docuements.)

I doubt anyone who voted for Biden who didn't vote for Hillary is regretting their 2020 vote at the moment.

[JCAll]

It’s ultimately won’t matter in terms of Biden’s ability to become President but Trump’s refusal to concede may engender some of the crazies in Trump’s base to do some dangerous things.

Or just sow division, making it impossible for Biden to do anything that needs bipartisan support. Like COVID relief or vaccine distribution.

[Amadeus Arkham]

At the moment, his biggest problem running again is probably his petulance in refusing to acknowledge the election results, and the damage it's doing for democracy and national security (delaying the Biden administration access to classified docuements.)

We already knew Trump was going to be a sore loser as far back in 2016 during the campaign when he said he would only accept the results of the election if he won so no surprise there but I don’t see it being as much an obstacle to him running again as much as the fact he’s gotten a lot of baggage over the years as President so he doesn’t have the benefit of running as a outsider or having a clean political slate as he did in 2016. There’s a very strong stigma to the Trump name now. And yes, I’m aware more people voted for him in 2020, but my point is I do think he has the disadvantage of being a person so uniquely loathed and despised by the wider majority that he inadvertently motivates the opposition against him greatly. If Trump ran in 2024, like in 2020, I don’t see voters taking things for granted like they did in 2016 and underestimating him. Again, we have the precedent of a Trump Presidency and how terrible it can be so I don’t see voters getting complacent enough to let the man have yet another term. He’s done enough damage already in just four years and the possibility of four more years of Trump is not something I can see many voters risk let happen again.

Or just sow division, making it impossible for Biden to do anything that needs bipartisan support. Like COVID relief or vaccine distribution.

That too.