All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Revolutionary_Jack]

It's like pushing a button in the sense that a lot of alternative choices are taken off the table by Big Money before the election even begins. Americans are generally forced to choose between a Center-Right Corporatist and a Far-Right Faux-Populist as if voters were consumers and nothing else (Bernie Sanders being an exception these past two elections). Given only a choice between those two, the Faux-Populist will often win because he at least pretends to be populist.

This is a fair hit. The winner-takes-all voting system rather than a ranked based system does tend to favor 2 big parties and that does limit diversity.

[Mister Mets]

My point was listing a bunch of factors that explains why white women voted so heavily for Trump. Intimate partner voter suppression or voter coercion is just one of them, and not the only one.



Hollywood is a business that appeals to masses and so is usually apolitical or dead center in a lot of respects. So it's wishy-washy in general.



Dude...Hollywood doesn't operate on Electoral College rules. It's a business focused on the biggest widest audience, i.e. the popular vote. Overwhelming majorities of Americans vote for Democrat candidates over the last 12 years without exception. So I don't get this notion of "as conservative as the public" which assumes the latter as a given. I mean the fact is the GOP senate represents fewer people than the Dems do.

If anything Hollywood is far more centrist than the Democrat Party. The American public at large certainly isn't conservative. Not as much as the industry.



Scraps.



It presented her as a charismatic villain with a great charismatic actress playing her...so that means audiences are not invited to hate or dislike Schlaffly. The show does this likewise by dialing the real woman's well documented racism...which is commonplace in Hollywood do. IN order to give "the other side" a fair hearing they dial down or ignore the obvious flaws so as to avoid calls for bias. As such American media has consistently played down the racism and white supremacy of many real life figures. Like Manson is never portrayed as a white supremacist, nor the Columbine Kids acknowledged as such by Michael Moore, Jesse James was a slaveowning terrorist not some cool outlaw, I can go on.

I said "Hollywood productions don't have characters who are as conservative as the public." This is different from suggesting that the majority of the public is consistently conservative.

Donald Trump still got over 47% of the popular vote in 2020, and I don't see any indication that 47% of American TV characters would be Trump voters.

Do you think the people consistently dialing down the flaws of historical figures are doing so because they're politically conservative? Or could other factors be in play, including having a finite amount of time to tell a particular story?

I see. Thanks for the reference, I want to read those other books now.



It's like pushing a button in the sense that a lot of alternative choices are taken off the table by Big Money before the election even begins. Americans are generally forced to choose between a Center-Right Corporatist and a Far-Right Faux-Populist as if voters were consumers and nothing else (Bernie Sanders being an exception these past two elections). Given only a choice between those two, the Faux-Populist will often win because he at least pretends to be populist.

I probably shouldn't have singled out America since this is common in most of the West, but America is the most extreme example of it since it lacks things like universal healthcare and a viable third party.



But it does matter because that was due to systemic propaganda. Some lefties seem to have this misconception that systemic propaganda is any less systemic than other systemic problems, meaning that anyone can "get over it" and overcome it, and if millions upon millions of people can't do that it's cuz they're bad people end of discussion.

I get why a centrist would think like that, and why they would use that talking point to shut down any discussion of systemic issues. It's because that worldview is entirely consistent with their ideology. But Lefties, though? Why would any Leftie (Social Democrats included)insist on using this talking point when they clearly know better? What is the point of framing discussions on complex geopolitical issues like that? I don't believe that any Leftie who knows who broken the system is and how propagandized people are can make this point in an objective way. My general impression is that they're bitter with how bad things have gotten under neoliberalism and are just lashing out at convenient targets. That and I think some white lefties have some form of Survivorship Bias, where they think systemic propaganda isn't a big deal if *they personally* weren't affected by it. I don't know you, so I can't judge one way or the other if any of this applies to you, but I do think it's a general trend with a lot of Lefties online.

American politics doesn't allow much opportunity for third parties, but it is relatively easy for voters to take over parties and change things that way.

Ross Perot got 19,743,821 votes in the 1992 general election, which came out to zero electoral votes.

Donald Trump got 14,015,993 votes in the Republican primaries, and that was more than enough to get him the nomination and the White House.

That's a good point about failing to acknowledge the difficulties of overcoming systematic propaganda.

[Malvolio]

Hollywood actors and directors might like to get political, but producers and executives like to stay out of it. Notice how whenever a Senator or Congressman or office holder is the victim or a suspect on a cop show, what are the two words you never hear? Democrat and Republican. No matter how righteous or how corrupt the character is, they like to keep their political affiliation vague. That way, if the character is depicted as a hero, everyone can believe that the character is a member of their party, or that the character is a member of the other party if they're portrayed as a villain.

I mean, even when a regular character on a sitcom decides to run for City Council, they rarely mention what party the character is affiliated with.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Hollywood actors and directors might like to get political, but producers and executives like to stay out of it. Notice how whenever a Senator or Congressman or office holder is the victim or a suspect on a cop show, what are the two words you never hear? Democrat and Republican. No matter how righteous or how corrupt the character is, they like to keep their political affiliation vague. That way, if the character is depicted as a hero, everyone can believe that the character is a member of their party, or that the character is a member of the other party if they're portrayed as a villain.

I mean, even when a regular character on a sitcom decides to run for City Council, they rarely mention what party the character is affiliated with.

They bring it up sometimes, though. The Grant Administration was Republican, but its politics were democratic.

[GindyPosts]

Anyone wanna talk about Tommy Tuberville's inability to grasp basic American government, yet he is going to be an American senator?

And that's the most harmless of his flubs. Alabamans elected him for two reasons; 1. He loved Trump and was going to support Trump 100% (though with Trump gone, he should have campaigned to support Biden 0%) and 2. He won a lot of football games as a college football coach.

Think it says a lot about America that if you immigrate here, you have to take a citizenship test to prove you belong here while being barred or heavily restricted from running for the highest levels of office, but if you were born in America, you can be the biggest idiot ever and have no barriers to get elected in any office. Which we have proved time and time again.

Like four years ago.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Anyone wanna talk about Tommy Tuberville's inability to grasp basic American government, yet he is going to be an American senator?

He's a Republican, why bother, why care, why be surprised?

Alabamans elected him for two reasons; 1. He loved Trump and was going to support Trump 100% (though with Trump gone, he should have campaigned to support Biden 0%) and 2. He won a lot of football games as a college football coach.

Well the last guy of their party on the ballot was a pedo. So I guess progress.

Think it says a lot about America that if you immigrate here, you have to take a citizenship test to prove you belong here while being barred or heavily restricted from running for the highest levels of office, but if you were born in America, you can be the biggest idiot ever and have no barriers to get elected in any office. Which we have proved time and time again.

Like four years ago.

Let me say that I don't buy the Mandarin argument i.e. that politicians should go to the best schools, best institutions and so on and so forth. In theory a guy who is a good coach for a team, so long as they are honest, fair, and decent and have a good sense of consensus and a finger on the pulse, can, in theory, be a good politician.

So Tuberville being an ex-football coach is not something I am going to hold against him. I mean Mark Kelly doesn't have much political experience. He's an astronaut and he became a national figure when his wife, a Representative survived a horrible shooting that essentially tanked her political career due to the injuries and trauma she sustained...and yet nobody thinks Kelly would be a bad Senator because astronauts have a certain respect and status.

So I don't think Tuberville's background disqualifies him. It's his policies, his issues, and his conduct that's what is concerning.

[PwrdOn]

Anyone wanna talk about Tommy Tuberville's inability to grasp basic American government, yet he is going to be an American senator?

And that's the most harmless of his flubs. Alabamans elected him for two reasons; 1. He loved Trump and was going to support Trump 100% (though with Trump gone, he should have campaigned to support Biden 0%) and 2. He won a lot of football games as a college football coach.

Think it says a lot about America that if you immigrate here, you have to take a citizenship test to prove you belong here while being barred or heavily restricted from running for the highest levels of office, but if you were born in America, you can be the biggest idiot ever and have no barriers to get elected in any office. Which we have proved time and time again.

Like four years ago.

The only reason America has had so much immigration throughout its history is because the "real Americans" needed cheap labor to build the country while they lived comfortably despite not doing much actual work. The fact that immigrant groups managed to integrate into mainstream American society is a totally unintended consequence and something that the "natives" have pushed back against at every turn, and if they had their way immigrants would just be a permanently disenfranchised class of slave laborers just like the kinds you see in Saudi Arabia and the other Gulf states. It was only the existence of actual slaves and natives that prevented Americans from being as hostile and intolerant toward immigrants, particularly European ones, as they wanted to be, which in turn gave immigrants the idea that if they worked hard enough they too might one day be able to become one of the exploiters rather than the exploited.

[Iron Maiden]

I'm a white woman and I can't stand Trump. Personally I have no idea why any of them would, outside the cluster of extremists. I'm still in shock that anyone voted for Trump, much less made it as close a race as it was.

Same here. Quite reluctantly, I followed Trump's various escapades in the news over the years, going back to the infamous meeting of the wife and the mistress (Ivana and Marla Maples) on the ski slopes on through the Trump University scam. He always struck me as a low life creep. Nothing about him indicates integrity, intelligence or basic human kindness.

[Tami]

Same here. Quite reluctantly, I followed Trump's various escapades in the news over the years, going back to the infamous meeting of the wife and the mistress (Ivana and Marla Maples) on the ski slopes on through the Trump University scam. He always struck me as a low life creep. Nothing about him indicates integrity, intelligence or basic human kindness.

Can a person still be human and not have a soul? I think he sold his a long time ago.

[Farealmer]

I am curious Mister Mets do you think the democrats would allow their candidate to pull the stuff Donny's pulling right now with the election results if the situation was reversed?

[Amadeus Arkham]

New Obama interviews.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAFv55o47ok

[GindyPosts]

So Tuberville being an ex-football coach is not something I am going to hold against him. I mean Mark Kelly doesn't have much political experience. He's an astronaut and he became a national figure when his wife, a Representative survived a horrible shooting that essentially tanked her political career due to the injuries and trauma she sustained...and yet nobody thinks Kelly would be a bad Senator because astronauts have a certain respect and status.

So I don't think Tuberville's background disqualifies him. It's his policies, his issues, and his conduct that's what is concerning.

I'm not saying only people who went to Harvard should be elected. I'm just saying if you wanna be elected, you should have a basic understanding of what you're getting into as that is going to be your career for the next few years if you win an election. For all the talk about "draining the swamp" Trump crooned about back in 2016, we have a tendency to elect people who know little about government, with their tenures usually ending up being filled with controversy. Unfortunately, as a Republican in a deep Red state, the only thing keeping Tommy out of Congress from now on is death.

The fact that he thinks we fought socialists in World War II and openly flaunts violating the Hatch Act is what truly is troubling. That's what I meant by his inability to recognize the judiciary branch is being "harmless" compared to those things. Sure, he's better than a freaking pedophile, but is that really the bar we should have?

[DrNewGod]

I'm not saying only people who went to Harvard should be elected. I'm just saying if you wanna be elected, you should have a basic understanding of what you're getting into as that is going to be your career for the next few years if you win an election. For all the talk about "draining the swamp" Trump crooned about back in 2016, we have a tendency to elect people who know little about government, with their tenures usually ending up being filled with controversy. Unfortunately, as a Republican in a deep Red state, the only thing keeping Tommy out of Congress from now on is death.

The fact that he thinks we fought socialists in World War II and openly flaunts violating the Hatch Act is what truly is troubling. That's what I meant by his inability to recognize the judiciary branch is being "harmless" compared to those things. Sure, he's better than a freaking pedophile, but is that really the bar we should have?

This is an example of why people who haven't read anything since narrowly escaping high school don't understand why "populism" is a bad thing

[Mister Mets]

I am curious Mister Mets do you think the democrats would allow their candidate to pull the stuff Donny's pulling right now with the election results if the situation was reversed?

Honestly, yes.

The party loves Stacey Abrams, who has kept complaining about the illegitimacy of a close but definitive loss in Georgia.

Weirdly an Atlanta Journal Constitution article on the matter gets censored by CBR. It's a top result when you google "abrams election week clash ajc" and it does show that she didn't have the votes.

There were some bad-faith arguments thrown around by Democrats around that time. I responded to some of those points an year and a half ago.

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post4332819

There was a lot of focus on Brian Kemp being Secretary of State while running for Governor, which ignores that Democrats did nominate the Secretary of State for Georgia relatively recently, the Secretary of State of Kansas lost the race for Governor, and that even if the Secretary of State were not allowed to seek another office, they would still have a preferred outcome in the election. There was also a lot of complaints about how people were removed from the voter rolls, as part of a law the Democrats had passed when they held control of the state.

It would be better if Trump acknowledged his loss, and it's pathetic that officeholders don't want to say the obvious, because they're afraid of pissing off an outgoing President.

Ross Douthat summed up why Republican officeholders don't want to piss off Trump.

Core Republicans + Trump loyalists is a competitive political party; core Republicans - Trump loyalists is not:

Under similar circumstances, I think Democrats would be doing the same thing.

If a Democratic President with support among key constituencies lost an election, and was not handling it gracefully, Democrats would be doing the same thing, waiting quietly for the process to play out.

In this case, the Trump administration is filing lawsuits, and the courts are smacking those down.

[GindyPosts]

Going back to the discussion on Hollywood, a fair chunk of people in the entertainment industry are very conservative. Some are very obvious when you think about it (like pro wrestling and game show hosts), but for every Kevin Sorbo, Jon Voight or James Woods who openly whine about the "communist left" and make asses of themselves, you'll find dozens upon dozens of individuals that argue more generally about the issues the entertainment industry has with being "immoral" or "corrupt", yet will still be a part of the entertainment industry for all the benefits and perks it brings without drawing too much attention to themselves.

So, that's why when I see people gripe about "Hollywood values" or how entertainment is trying to poison our youth (such was the case of a certain, perplexing French artsy-fartsy film people didn't bother doing research on and thought it was made in Hollywood), I just shake my head. Most of big movers and shakers in the industry all support Republican values and help fund Republican candidates and Super PACs despite California being a strong Democratic state, and when you stop and think about a good portion of the most popular genres that are out there today (namely superhero films), they actually seem to embody more conservative arguments about nationalism and security over personal freedom with a heaping dose of violence 'cuz America loves that stuff. It's when we explore sex or alternate lifestyles that causes folks to get enraged.