All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Madam-Shogun-Assassin]

Eov8ES5W4AMR53K.jpeg.jpg This is probably going to get worse, Upwards of 40 million people in this country are facing eviction when the CDC moratorium expires at the end of this month. That’s roughly 12% of the entire population. Over 1 out every 10 people. The rippling economic effects will be staggering. The housing crisis is one of the best demonstrations of how neoliberalism is killing us.

The bipartisan neoliberal political establishment has spent decades pouring money into police & gentrification projects in major cities instead of making quality of life improvements. Now these gentrification initiatives they spent so much time & money on that destroyed affordable housing—restaurants, stadiums, tourist attractions, etc—are unsustainable & they have nothing to offer millions facing homelessness & hunger but police forces w/ tear gas & tanks.

[Hellion]

There isn't any cognitive dissonance between being able to criticize an influential author for expressing views that are harmful to a vulnerable population, and also acknowledging the ocean or harm created by Trump. Why would there be?

I mean, as far as apples and oranges -- are you saying that you are seeing people thinking she is worse than Trump? Or ... yeah, she's not a politician. But, that does not insulate you from having people disagree with you vehemently. If you don't want to people to express their own opinions in response to yours -- you can always keep your opinion to yourself.

This thing though, about "cancel culture" or I guess "political correctness", where some seem to want the ability to say whatever they want, but to be protected from others looking very negatively upon them for saying it -- that ought to cause you some cognitive dissonance. How does that make sense? Rowling (or whoever) gets to express ignorant and biased opinions, but no one else is supposed to have an opinion when they do?

Now, again, this is not at all any attempt on my part to paint her as worst than Trump or even anywhere near as harmful. But, just aiming for "better than Trump" is a pretty low bar for anyone to clear.

Honestly, I have to say, it kind of seems like you're emphasizing kind of questionable criticisms of "the Left" just so you can say you're a "centrist" which I guess is just magically better than Left or Right.

In regard to cognitive dissonance, I was referring to people being incapable of defining a person by more than just one thing. To use the Rowling example again: are her opinions on the transgender debate unpopular/bad/harmful/etc? The consensus seems to be "yes." But should my feelings for and experience of the Harry Potter books be fundamentally changed because of the author's opinions? No. And anyone claiming otherwise needs to seek counseling, because that lack of cognitive dissonance is unhealthy. I read one report of a distressed fan retroactively damning the Potter books in the wake of Rowling's remarks about transfolk because the books themselves feature no trans characters and therefore the books promote trans-erasure. By that logic, most stories in existence practice trans-erasure and are harmful. It's nonsense.

The point I'm trying to make with the Trump comparison is that, now that Rowling has said some stuff that's upset people, there are those who will only ever see her as a TRANSPHOBE!!! and they'll trash her books and boycott any future books and continue to harass her on social media because Rowling will forever be defined by that one thing for them. I was comparing with Trump not to simply say she's better than Trump (which she certainly is), but to illustrate that, unlike Trump, Rowling also has a lot of redeeming qualities. Trump will only ever be defined negatively because, well, he has no redeemable qualities and he's never done any good for the world. But cancel culture treats both Trump and Rowling like they're equally bad, though they're not really on the same level.

Another example from popular culture is Mel Gibson. Most likely a racist, anti-Semite, alcoholic, and all-around unpleasant man in his personal life. He was blacklisted, people boycotted his films, etc. But I still enjoy the hell out of the silly romp that is Braveheart. Or Michael Crichton? Dude had some borderline racist views of the Japanese and is likely on the wrong side of the climate change debate. But he also gave us Jurassic Park, and Jurassic Park demands all our love. Cognitive dissonance is the ability to separate one's feelings for the artist from their feelings for the art.

And again, I'm all for calling people out on outrageous/negative/wrong opinions and beliefs, but there's got to be some limits/moderations/considerations involved. It's impossible for everyone to agree with everyone else about everything. We're never going to reach that level of conformity and I think anybody that wants to is crazy. And my problem with cancel culture is that it treats every offense, no matter how major or how minor, the same and it treats every offender, whether it's the president of the United States or a nobody on a comic book forums thread, the same. There needs to be distinctions.

I don't find these to be "questionable" criticisms of the Left (some of the reactions I've gotten here are proving my point). And cancel culture isn't solely a Left issue, either, but in the example of cancel culture going after Rowling, it seems to be driven primarily by the left. As a centrist, I don't consider myself to be magically better than either left or right. I have way more left-leaning views than I do right-leaning views. But most if not all of my views are moderate rather than extreme, hence, "centrist."

[Kirby101]

I would judge you as a centrist or not based on you views on issues like abortion, climate change, tax cuts, healthcare and a few more. Also by who you voted for.

[Mister Mets]

If "cancel culture" is a phenomena of the Left, how do you explain Colin Kaepernick?

This gets a little messy.

On the one hand, he's done rather well for himself. He still has major endorsement deals.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...t-branded-line

There would also be the argument that he brought politics into something apolitical, by using the national anthem to highlight his political concerns. He was doing this during the game, rather than off the field.

My understanding is that he's also not that great a football player. Lebron James gets to be a hypocrite when it comes to taking a stand (criticizing conservatives and cops is fine; criticizing China is not) because he's one of the best ever.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...rnick-tracker/

Kaepernick has some extreme views, which are part of how he is perceived.

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/s...117033883.html

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49...ice-pigs-socks

There was a brief time when it looked like he might join an NFL team when they agreed on a demonstration. And then he went somewhere else.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/16/s...l-workout.html

In sports, team players are needed.

He is also blamed for a decline in NFL ratings. That doesn't make people want to hire him.

https://www.si.com/media/2017/08/31/...y-sean-mcmanus

There is also the question of ideological consistency in terms of how he should be treated. It's one thing to say that the NFL treated him wrong, and that no one should be treated that way because of their political views. It's another to say that he should have a job, and some moderate who stepped on a third rail should be blacklisted.

[Kirby101]

Mitch McConnell’s Liability Shield Is Major Holdup For COVID-19 Deal

I am sure 30 will come and explain to us how Pelosi is 100% responsible for the bill not passing.

[numberthirty]

Mitch McConnell’s Liability Shield Is Major Holdup For COVID-19 Deal

I am sure 30 will come and explain to us how Pelosi is 100% responsible for the bill not passing.

For starters...

No one has ever said anything like what is in blue.

Past that?

What you just posted was the entire reason it was beyond stupid for Pelosi to get up from the table when she did. It was giving away the only thing like leverage that Democrats were likely to have(barring them running the table in November's elections, which obviously did not happen...)

Here is a pretty solid "Basics 101..." breakdown on why betting on Democratic gains was stupid, and how it setup McConnell being in a position to do the above...

[Kirby101]

Dem hating Krystal Ball, I'll pass.

[zinderel]

Mitch McConnell’s Liability Shield Is Major Holdup For COVID-19 Deal

I am sure 30 will come and explain to us how Pelosi is 100% responsible for the bill not passing.

Moscow Mitch proves once again that he cares more about white men of means - most business owners - over minorities, the working poor, or the otherwise disenfranchised - workers - and is perfectly happy to let all of us die if it saves the IMPORTANT people a few percentage points. Any lawsuit brought against an employer for unsafe working conditions should be heard and tried on the merits of the case. Not tossed out or not taken seriously because some asshole whose body is falling apart to match the rotten void that squats where his soul should be decides that being a callous prick is more valuable than doing his job.

[numberthirty]

Dem hating Krystal Ball, I'll pass.

Worth noting that she didn't actually lay out why it was dumb, but folks are usually going to assume what they want to believe is the case.

[Jack Dracula]

Mitch McConnell’s Liability Shield Is Major Holdup For COVID-19 Deal

I am sure 30 will come and explain to us how Pelosi is 100% responsible for the bill not passing.

All of 10 minutes.

[Powerboy]

In regard to cognitive dissonance, I was referring to people being incapable of defining a person by more than just one thing. To use the Rowling example again: are her opinions on the transgender debate unpopular/bad/harmful/etc? The consensus seems to be "yes." But should my feelings for and experience of the Harry Potter books be fundamentally changed because of the author's opinions? No. And anyone claiming otherwise needs to seek counseling, because that lack of cognitive dissonance is unhealthy. I read one report of a distressed fan retroactively damning the Potter books in the wake of Rowling's remarks about transfolk because the books themselves feature no trans characters and therefore the books promote trans-erasure. By that logic, most stories in existence practice trans-erasure and are harmful. It's nonsense.

The point I'm trying to make with the Trump comparison is that, now that Rowling has said some stuff that's upset people, there are those who will only ever see her as a TRANSPHOBE!!! and they'll trash her books and boycott any future books and continue to harass her on social media because Rowling will forever be defined by that one thing for them. I was comparing with Trump not to simply say she's better than Trump (which she certainly is), but to illustrate that, unlike Trump, Rowling also has a lot of redeeming qualities. Trump will only ever be defined negatively because, well, he has no redeemable qualities and he's never done any good for the world. But cancel culture treats both Trump and Rowling like they're equally bad, though they're not really on the same level.

Another example from popular culture is Mel Gibson. Most likely a racist, anti-Semite, alcoholic, and all-around unpleasant man in his personal life. He was blacklisted, people boycotted his films, etc. But I still enjoy the hell out of the silly romp that is Braveheart. Or Michael Crichton? Dude had some borderline racist views of the Japanese and is likely on the wrong side of the climate change debate. But he also gave us Jurassic Park, and Jurassic Park demands all our love. Cognitive dissonance is the ability to separate one's feelings for the artist from their feelings for the art.

And again, I'm all for calling people out on outrageous/negative/wrong opinions and beliefs, but there's got to be some limits/moderations/considerations involved. It's impossible for everyone to agree with everyone else about everything. We're never going to reach that level of conformity and I think anybody that wants to is crazy. And my problem with cancel culture is that it treats every offense, no matter how major or how minor, the same and it treats every offender, whether it's the president of the United States or a nobody on a comic book forums thread, the same. There needs to be distinctions.

I don't find these to be "questionable" criticisms of the Left (some of the reactions I've gotten here are proving my point). And cancel culture isn't solely a Left issue, either, but in the example of cancel culture going after Rowling, it seems to be driven primarily by the left. As a centrist, I don't consider myself to be magically better than either left or right. I have way more left-leaning views than I do right-leaning views. But most if not all of my views are moderate rather than extreme, hence, "centrist."

There are certainly degrees. Comparing Rowling to Trump is silly. Probably the biggest difference is that Rowling at least genuinely believes what she is saying. Trump doesn't genuinely believe in anything except getting what he wants and trying to convince as many people as possible that he has never legitimately lost at anything.

Some would say cancel culture is just a new term for what used to be known as "consequences for being a jerk". But I think it's more that we are in a cultural change that is being speeded up far beyond how fast it would once have happened because of the level of mass media now.

There is also an attitude that certain things are "social facts" and cannot be questioned.

Rowling seems to have emerged as a transphobe but basing it on never having a trans character in her stories is something that probably would never have been seen as an accusation until the second decade of the 21st century and would accuse every story that doesn't have a character of a particular type in it as being phobic to that group.

[Adam Allen]

Do I have to share the image from yesterday again? 9 times out of 10 when someone says neither left nor right...they are right.

Ha! Unfortunately have to admit, I didn't get joke of your picture, before! Agreed with what Madam-Shogun-Assassin said tho!

The left: We need to prevent homelessness & hunger, end state violence & ensure a functioning democracy.

The right: COVID isn’t real, Trump won, he’s taking down an elitist satanic pedophile ring & we’ll die for him

“Centrists”: The extremism on both sides is out of control!

That's how some people sound on social media lol

Yeah, seems like that kind of a lot, really...

[Kirby101]

Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti folks;

Saagar Enjeti: This moment is why Biden will lose the election

[shooshoomanjoe]

Eov8ES5W4AMR53K.jpeg.jpg This is probably going to get worse, Upwards of 40 million people in this country are facing eviction when the CDC moratorium expires at the end of this month. That’s roughly 12% of the entire population. Over 1 out every 10 people. The rippling economic effects will be staggering. The housing crisis is one of the best demonstrations of how neoliberalism is killing us.

The bipartisan neoliberal political establishment has spent decades pouring money into police & gentrification projects in major cities instead of making quality of life improvements. Now these gentrification initiatives they spent so much time & money on that destroyed affordable housing—restaurants, stadiums, tourist attractions, etc—are unsustainable & they have nothing to offer millions facing homelessness & hunger but police forces w/ tear gas & tanks.

I wonder what's going to happen with people that can't pay their mortgage. Will the bank kick them out or let them stay and just add interest to the loan.

[The Cool Thatguy]

There are certainly degrees. Comparing Rowling to Trump is silly. Probably the biggest difference is that Rowling at least genuinely believes what she is saying. Trump doesn't genuinely believe in anything except getting what he wants and trying to convince as many people as possible that he has never legitimately lost at anything.

Some would say cancel culture is just a new term for what used to be known as "consequences for being a jerk". But I think it's more that we are in a cultural change that is being speeded up far beyond how fast it would once have happened because of the level of mass media now.

There is also an attitude that certain things are "social facts" and cannot be questioned.

Rowling seems to have emerged as a transphobe but basing it on never having a trans character in her stories is something that probably would never have been seen as an accusation until the second decade of the 21st century and would accuse every story that doesn't have a character of a particular type in it as being phobic to that group.

It's not the case that she's missing a transgender character in Harry Potter, it's that she's mocked the concept online and in one of her later murder novels. Just sayin'.