All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[JackDaw]

There's a good ten to fifteen seconds where Fox is clearly not in any position to defend herself. Her corner came to the exact same conclusion that I did.

Once you have internalized that, you need to be able to ask yourself if it was the "Why?..."

To me?

Just as much of a case on the tape that it went on for a reason, and not just a random instance of incredibly poor judgement.

I haven’t watched combat sport for a long time...I used to but gradually the whole thing sickened me and I stopped watching.

So your knowledge will be much more recent than mine...so if you are saying that allowing a fight to go on for 10 to 15 seconds too long is now so unusual that only one explanation is conceivable then I’ll accept your view. Back in the days when I watched a lot...it was practically the norm.

[The no face guy]

The guy who is pointing to that a trans woman may very well have taken a beating because she was a trans woman in sports is from the "Less Sensitive..." society?

Seems like you're having trouble even taking a serious look at what happened, but I'm the "Less Sensitive..." one?

No not at all, I looked up what the MMA experts wear saying about the fight from Dana White on...and general consensus it that Fallon Fox is a crappy fighter, she simply had an advantage in her first two fights because she had the strength and power of biological male, that provided her with two quick victories, and then she came up against a really good fighter. Personally, I've seen skilled women beat up men before in MMA and in a boxing match. (though it was uncomfortable to watch)

Look I will let you have the last word, as I don't know what more than I can say other than...

if you are making a claim on the truth that goes against the general consensus of the scientific community, (Sex does not significantly impact biological gender) than the onus is on you, to provide me with the evidence to convince me otherwise, which I have already stated I am more than happy to be swayed.

but until that is brought forth it's a dead issue with me, I'm done discussing it, empirical facts and scientific investigation, must always, always, trump politics and people's political beliefs no matter how well intentioned they are.

Later.

[numberthirty]

No not at all, I looked up what the MMA experts wear saying about the fight from Dana White on...and general consensus it that Fallon Fox is a crappy fighter, she simply had an advantage in her first two fights because she had the strength and power of biological male, that provided her with two quick victories, and then she came up against a really good fighter. Personally, I've seen skilled women beat up men before in MMA and in a boxing match. (though it was uncomfortable to watch)

Look I will let you have the last word, as I don't know what more than I can say other than...

if you are making a claim on the truth that goes against the general consensus of the scientific community, (Sex does not significantly impact biological gender) than the onus is on you, to provide me with the evidence to convince me otherwise, which I have already stated I am more than happy to be swayed.

but until that is brought forth it's a dead issue with me, I'm done discussing it, empirical facts and scientific investigation, must always, always, trump politics and people's political beliefs no matter how well intentioned they are.

Later.

To put it simply...

The whole of the reality of the rights of a trans person is not going to end at if one of them took a worse beating simply because she was a trans woman.

That you seem like you want to avoid even getting near discussing that aspect of this like it is The Blob is truly baffling.

Who a trans woman is does not end at if she does(or does not...) have any sort of a legitimate advantage just because she is a trans woman.

[numberthirty]

I haven’t watched combat sport for a long time...I used to but gradually the whole thing sickened me and I stopped watching.

So your knowledge will be much more recent than mine...so if you are saying that allowing a fight to go on for 10 to 15 seconds too long is now so unusual that only one explanation is conceivable then I’ll accept your view. Back in the days when I watched a lot...it was practically the norm.

Last as I heard, a match is supposed to be stopped once one of the combatants can no longer defend themselves.

While I'm not going to say that there are never other instances that are truly troubling when it comes to a fight being stopped, there is no version of the close of that match where I can even try to make a case for that Fox could fight back/defend herself. She is pinned down with no way to get up, and taking repeated shots.

[The no face guy]

To put it simply...

The whole of the reality of the rights of a trans person is not going to end at if one of them took a worse beating simply because she was a trans woman.

That you seem like you want to avoid even getting near discussing that aspect of this like it is The Blob is truly baffling.

Who a trans woman is does not end at if she does(or does not...) have any sort of a legitimate advantage just because she is a trans woman.

I am not avoiding anything, I clearly have stated my position over and over again that for me it's about science, and that scientific evidence must always trump politics.

I said I would give you the last word even though you have provided no scientific evidence to sway my opinion....so we are done.

you can carry on, but I will not respond, my opinions are stated above repeatedly, take care.

[Jeremi]

https://prospect.org/power/senator-t...ine-streamers/

Excuse me?

[Malvolio]

Let me put a question to number thirty and tendrin: Do you believe that The no face guy is anti-trans? Because he doesn't seem to be anti-trans to me. He just has an issue with trans athletes competing in the same arena with cis athletes. Please don't let this one point make you believe he's as bad as the legislators who enact anti-trans bathroom laws.

[numberthirty]

Let me put a question to number thirty and tendrin: Do you believe that The no face guy is anti-trans? Because he doesn't seem to be anti-trans to me. He just has an issue with trans athletes competing in the same arena with cis athletes. Please don't let this one point make you believe he's as bad as the legislators who enact anti-trans bathroom laws.

Have I actually said that?

One guy's take...

First, you've got a fight that throws a serious hitch into the entire "Trans Women Have An Inherent Advantage..." take.

Second, the end of said fight seems a lot like it could have gone in the unfortunate direction that it did because the fighter was a trans woman.

It's less "Anti-Trans..." than "Feels Like You Want To Discuss The Needle, And Not The Haystack That It Is Sitting In..."

Because trans folks have to live their lives in that entire haystack.

[Tendrin]

Let me put a question to number thirty and tendrin: Do you believe that The no face guy is anti-trans? Because he doesn't seem to be anti-trans to me. He just has an issue with trans athletes competing in the same arena with cis athletes. Please don't let this one point make you believe he's as bad as the legislators who enact anti-trans bathroom laws.

You don't have to be as bad as a bathroom-bill-pusher to be engaged in transphobia. Transphobia is transphobia and ought to be confronted, not ignored because there are worse transphobic behaviors out there. Arguing that 'transwomen have an advantage in sports', which is, in fact, *not* borne out in the practical results of those competitions, ignores the vast variety of cis-born women's bodies and engages with a kind of biological essentialism as to the nature of sex. Moreover, trans athletes are regularly outperformed by their cis counterparts in these contests, and even in and of itself, the focus is on *transwomen* especially, with rarely or nary a thought given to trans-masc athletes, which leads to situations like Mark Beggs, who was forced to wrestle girls despite being trans-masc.

So while I don't think No-Face-Guy intends to police trans people going to the bathroom, he seems perfectly fine with policing them for engagement in sports, when policing trans bodies shouldn't be his business at all. Just look at what happened to Caster Semenya, who's a cis-woman with an intersex condition that gave her naturally high testosterone. As a result of anti-trans, essentialist ideas as to what a 'woman' is that isn't born out by even a basic understanding of actual biological sex and genetic characteristics, she's been barred from participating in her sport of choice. They say it's about 'fairness', but the reality is that there is all manner of biological advantage that are not policed, only the ones specifically relating to *transwomen*, which naturally has an impact on *all* women.

[The no face guy]

Let me put a question to number thirty and tendrin: Do you believe that The no face guy is anti-trans? Because he doesn't seem to be anti-trans to me. He just has an issue with trans athletes competing in the same arena with cis athletes. Please don't let this one point make you believe he's as bad as the legislators who enact anti-trans bathroom laws.

No I am not anti trans, I simply believe in defending science from politics, particularly if it contradicts the general consensus of the scientific community.

For the record, my own politics is very social liberal: here is my positions:

Transgender rights (Liberal up to the point it does not engage in science denial/or impede on the rights of another group)
Gay marriage (Completely liberal)
Abortion (Pro Choice)
Multiculturalism (Pro multiculturalism)
Racial Diversity (Pro living in a racially diverse society)
Reparations to African Americans for slavery & Native Americans for reservation schools (Pro, get it done)
Gun Control (Pro gun control/ban the purchase of assault weapons)
War on Drugs (End it, take the power away from organized crime and end mass incarceration)
Capital Punishment (End it, with few acceptions)
Police reformation (Your countries police force needs mass de-escalation training)

I take it on the chin because as a liberal, I feel it is my job to marginalize the far left in my party. It doesn't bother me to get labelled a transphobic by someone I know is a political extremist, who is either my way or the highway.

I have been on University campuses and seen professors bullied and intimidated by radical extremists because they will not cater to every whim of their political dogma. I have also seen people on here who are liberals bullied in the same fashion, I don't put up with it. Now imagine the dogma I would have to go through if I was a moderate conservative?

[Tendrin]

Let's remember: you can be liberal on a lot of fronts and still have unexamined, reactionary opinions about others.

[numberthirty]

See, that kind of puts a finer point on it.

When it looks like protecting what you see as "The Science..."/"The Facts..." is a higher priority than being able to seriously consider if a ref let a trans woman take a beating because she was a trans woman?

The priorities are all jacked up.

You might not be actively "Anti-", but it feels a whole lot like there is a situation where you'll look past the specific issue that a trans person might be facing.

Wanting to focus on one aspect of a trans woman in combat sports while choosing to completely refuse to even take a look at another aspect seems like pretty odd approach to being for trans rights.

[BeastieRunner]

Evidence suggests COVID affects male's ability to have an erection.

And now that boners are affected, the race for a cure will go 10 fold!

[Username taken]

You don't have to be as bad as a bathroom-bill-pusher to be engaged in transphobia. Transphobia is transphobia and ought to be confronted, not ignored because there are worse transphobic behaviors out there. Arguing that 'transwomen have an advantage in sports', which is, in fact, *not* borne out in the practical results of those competitions, ignores the vast variety of cis-born women's bodies and engages with a kind of biological essentialism as to the nature of sex. Moreover, trans athletes are regularly outperformed by their cis counterparts in these contests, and even in and of itself, the focus is on *transwomen* especially, with rarely or nary a thought given to trans-masc athletes, which leads to situations like Mark Beggs, who was forced to wrestle girls despite being trans-masc.

So while I don't think No-Face-Guy intends to police trans people going to the bathroom, he seems perfectly fine with policing them for engagement in sports, when policing trans bodies shouldn't be his business at all. Just look at what happened to Caster Semenya, who's a cis-woman with an intersex condition that gave her naturally high testosterone. As a result of anti-trans, essentialist ideas as to what a 'woman' is that isn't born out by even a basic understanding of actual biological sex and genetic characteristics, she's been barred from participating in her sport of choice. They say it's about 'fairness', but the reality is that there is all manner of biological advantage that are not policed, only the ones specifically relating to *transwomen*, which naturally has an impact on *all* women.

I was about to mention Semenya. Very good points.

[Username taken]

Let's remember: you can be liberal on a lot of fronts and still have unexamined, reactionary opinions about others.

Exactly.

A lot of people say they are liberal but they go on to spout out stuff that's simply 1) Not well thought out 2) Not well informed.

One of the greatest dangers these days is "reaction media". It's an evolution of sensationalist headlines but with the "democratization of media" it's getting worse with people regurgitating flat out lies.

Unfortunately, people don't take the time to "cut through the bullshit" but instead take some of this nonsense at face value.