All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Powerboy]

It's not Communist government becoming dictatorships. Marx saw the dictatorship of the proletariat the initial step in Communism. In order for the populace to be brought up to a literate, self governing level. When Marx wrote the Manifesto, much of the p,worker populace were uneducated. But no Communist government has gone beyond the dictatorship phase into true a cooperative of equality. So it's not slipping into dictatorship, it's dictatorship using the premise of Communism.
Given human nature, true Communism may be impossible.

I remember once arguing with someone about a true Marxist society. He kept arguing that the reason Marxism always fails is because of human nature and upbringing to the point I finally said, "It sounds like what you're saying is that, to ever have a true Marxist society, you would first have to have a true Marxist society- and people that aren't people".

[Jack Dracula]

While this argument on Communism is accurate, I think it goes a bit too easy on the US system. Twice in the last century, the US nearly fell into oligarchy, with the course turned back only by the social impacts of The Great Depression +WWII and The Civil Rights Movement+Vietnam. There's even some reasonable argument that the US actually was always an oligarchy, disrupted first by The Industrial Revolution (we switched from agricultural+merchantile oligarchs to industrial oligarchs) and then The Great Depression.

The oligarchists have never given up. They're being supplanted by a new breed, tech based, but oligarchs all the same.

The US system does have flexibility and tools to defend the rights of the people. Oligarchs have been undermining it all my adult life (at least). The only thing that gives me any hope in all the mounting troubles we've experienced these last several years may yield one of those inflection points to roll back inequality. At least, for a while.

I don't think we have an Oligarchy identical to Russia, but it's likely we have our own, unique U.S. version.
Without strict campaign finance reform and a very strong independent ethical enforcement agency, will likely never be free of interference from special interests and completely devoted to the people.

[Jack Dracula]

Yes,and for the same reason as ideal capitalist-democracy: neither adequately reckons with vanity nor laziness.

This brings us back to my original question of whether there is any form of government immune to dictatorship.
I'll expand that to include corruption to any degree.

Given human nature, true Communism may be impossible.

I remember once arguing with someone about a true Marxist society. He kept arguing that the reason Marxism always fails is because of human nature and upbringing to the point I finally said, "It sounds like what you're saying is that, to ever have a true Marxist society, you would first have to have a true Marxist society- and people that aren't people".

For these reasons, I've raised the possibility of governance by AI in my Beer and Philosophy group.
So far nobody is on board. The idea of surrendering control to a machine gives people the willies.

[JCAll]

So the FBI suspects the Nashville Christmas Day bombing was committed by a 63 year old white male Nashville resident who believed in conspiracy theories. He may have been in the RV when he blew it up.

https://www.newsweek.com/who-anthony...-blast-1557408

I still can't even wrap my mind around what would bring someone to this...

[Kirby101]

For these reasons, I've raised the possibility of governance by AI in my Beer and Philosophy group.
So far nobody is on board. The idea of surrendering control to a machine gives people the willies.

Read 'With Folded Hands' by Jack Williamson. And Skynet?

[The Cool Thatguy]

Read 'With Folded Hands' by Jack Williamson. And Skynet?

I think we could end up with something like the Machine from person of interest

[Kirby101]

I think we could end up with something like the Machine from person of interest

Or Samaritan

[DrNewGod]

...For these reasons, I've raised the possibility of governance by AI in my Beer and Philosophy group.
So far nobody is on board. The idea of surrendering control to a machine gives people the willies.

No wonder, when you account for the fact that AI tends to be biased by its programmers.

I can't help finding this conversation odd, being that this is a comic book site. Seems like that's what Kirby and Thomas were talking to us about with The Kree Supreme Intelligence.

[Kirby101]

No wonder, when you account for the fact that AI tends to be biased by its programmers.

I can't help finding this conversation odd, being that this is a comic book site. Seems like that's what Kirby and Thomas were talking to us about with The Kree Supreme Intelligence.

the Supreme Intelligence was the cumulative intellect of the greatest Kree minds, rather than an AI. Brother Eye from OMAC was AI.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Follow-up question. Is there any form of government that can't degenerate into a dictatorship or oligarchy under the right circumstances?

Sure but Communism didn't "degenerate" to that stage, it was a first step and has problems getting past that which it never solved. Democracies don't start off like that, even Trump isn't an actual dictator - that's why he's able to voted out and his word isn't absolute law. There are no counter balances like this in Communism, you start with Trump being dictator for life. Democracies are very flawed systems, vulnerable to corruption and fascism but they're vastly more safer than Communism in preventing dictatorships to form. Communist countries are more vulnerable to fascists takeover over time, as well.

[Malvolio]

As Winston Churchill said, "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others."

[mathew101281]

Sure but Communism didn't "degenerate" to that stage, it was a first step and has problems getting past that which it never solved. Democracies don't start off like that, even Trump isn't an actual dictator - that's why he's able to voted out and his word isn't absolute law. There are no counter balances like this in Communism, you start with Trump being dictator for life. Democracies are very flawed systems, vulnerable to corruption and fascism but they're vastly more safer than Communism in preventing dictatorships to form. Communist countries are more vulnerable to fascists takeover over time, as well.

Exactly, the strength of democracy isn't that it guarantees good leadership. the real strength of democracy is that it has built-in mechanics that allow a society to change course without bloodshed. An ideal monarchy or dictatorship could in some instances not look all that different from democracy to the average citizen. But the problem is that you're not going to get the ideal most of the time. Bad leadership is ay more catastrophic in dictatorships because the offending leadership is in place for life. The only place to get rid of them is through violence.

[babyblob]

Trump signs the covid bill at last

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/27/polit...eve/index.html

This was really the only thing he could do. he could not let The $2000 bill go to the floor and have the GOP go on record for shutting it down. Not if they had any hope of winning GA.

[Amadeus Arkham]

How likely is it that the Dems can get control of the senate in January? Is anyone here e
confident they can win?

[Revolutionary_Jack]

How likely is it that the Dems can get control of the senate in January? Is anyone here e
confident they can win?

If it happens it will be a major surprise. A huge upset for the GOP, and considered a miracle on the part of the Dems.

Let's put it that way.