1. #21466
    Ultimate Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    It's bigger than doing nothing. And the Dems doing nothing would be worse.



    Saying it publicly will be different than having them vote on it and on their record.

    Just because you aren't going to get the outcome you want (karmic reckoning of Trump) doesn't mean you should pursue no outcome. Politics isn't Everything or Nothing.
    I understand this. if they impeach I get the reason, and I will hope it passes. I just think there are also other things that can be done as well.
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  2. #21467
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    Are we being too hard on those "poor working class volk" who stormed the Capitol to end the tyranny of the "ruling class"?

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    Trump era shows:

    -there are no secure checks & balances in govt

    -the future of free & fair elections is under increasing threat

    -police & military can’t be relied on to protect govt b/c of close affiliation w fascist movement

    Folks saying otherwise aren’t paying attention

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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I understand this. if they impeach I get the reason, and I will hope it passes. I just think there are also other things that can be done as well.
    I don't think impeachment precludes other stuff happening to him.

    He's banned from twitter for good, which means that any future Presidential run is going to be harder without the free publicity/marketing/advertising his use of the platform has given him all these years. He will have to spend money and invest in traditional media for his campaign which is going to be real knife to a lightsaber duel in politics these days. FB and Instagram have permabanned him too.

    Parler is a super-fringe thing and no way the corporate oligarchs behind the Republican party will back a Parler-famous candidate, unless Parler somehow attracts a mainstream audience which is unlikely.

    Obviously after Jan 20 he's going to be facing criminal charges and a pardon won't save him from all of that since he can be tried by states and believe me there are lawyers out for blood for this.

    Will Trump get the justice and perfect karmic retribution for all he did in his time of office? Nobody can know for sure. But that doesn't mean you don't try, nor will it mean that you won't get some kind of justice out of this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    A pointless impeachment is not a bigger statement then what he did on the 6th. It will not be a bigger stain then he wears now being a man who urged his followers to storm the capital. An investigation a full investigation Finding out who helped him, getting them to turn on him, getting them on record that he ordered them to stand down, or help with this, that will hurt him because there will be evidence to throw him in prison for the rest of his worthless life. Evidence by people testifying against him when they are revealed by a commission, voice recordings I am sure are out there, and I am sure there is something written. Once he and his lackeys are in jail for this that will send a bigger statement then a symbolic impeachment.

    I get the needing to do something, or putting the Republicans on record. but so many of them have publicly spoken out about not impeaching him that they are on record.
    No, BB, I must disagree. It might distract from other, more useful work, but as others have said, it will require legislators to inescapably declare a side. That may become important when investigations get to the bottom of 1/6's travesty. Even if doesn't dislodge the seditionists, it may limit their freedom of action in the next two years.

  6. #21471
    Ultimate Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    I don't think impeachment precludes other stuff happening to him.

    He's banned from twitter for good, which means that any future Presidential run is going to be harder without the free publicity/marketing/advertising his use of the platform has given him all these years. He will have to spend money and invest in traditional media for his campaign which is going to be real knife to a lightsaber duel in politics these days. FB and Instagram have permabanned him too.

    Parler is a super-fringe thing and no way the corporate oligarchs behind the Republican party will back a Parler-famous candidate, unless Parler somehow attracts a mainstream audience which is unlikely.

    Obviously after Jan 20 he's going to be facing criminal charges and a pardon won't save him from all of that since he can be tried by states and believe me there are lawyers out for blood for this.

    Will Trump get the justice and perfect karmic retribution for all he did in his time of office? Nobody can know for sure. But that doesn't mean you don't try, nor will it mean that you won't get some kind of justice out of this.
    I understand this. i just dont want so much focus on an impeachment that the other stuff gets lost or put off. That is my main point.
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  7. #21472
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    Quote Originally Posted by williamtheday View Post
    Are we being too hard on those "poor working class volk" who stormed the Capitol to end the tyranny of the "ruling class"?
    Yeah especially the lady who went there on her private jet.

  8. #21473
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    No, BB, I must disagree. It might distract from other, more useful work, but as others have said, it will require legislators to inescapably declare a side. That may become important when investigations get to the bottom of 1/6's travesty. Even if doesn't dislodge the seditionists, it may limit their freedom of action in the next two years.
    I get what you are saying but They have declared a side already. They are on film saying they are against it. They tweeted and posted on facebook. They have made thier stance known.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    No, BB, I must disagree. It might distract from other, more useful work, but as others have said, it will require legislators to inescapably declare a side. That may become important when investigations get to the bottom of 1/6's travesty. Even if doesn't dislodge the seditionists, it may limit their freedom of action in the next two years.
    I think people need to understand the scale of what just happened.

    Trump has done many awful things in his entire life, and several awful things in this Presidency. He's impeachable several times over, make no mistake.

    However if I have to choose the two worst things he has done in this Presidency, and both are equal in how exceptionally evil and toxic it is in American history and indeed world history over the last 7 decades:
    -- Lying about COVID-19 and sabotaging it for his nihilistic campaigning.
    -- The Insurrection of January 6 where he incited a coup to stop the certification of the election which he lost, essentially sanctioning the murder of every elected federal official in America including his own VP, Mike Pence. Trump tried to murder everyone in Capitol Hill.

    Those two are uniquely evil and exceptional over and above everything he has done.

    January 6 ranks among the worst things that has ever happened to America, as much of a stain as 9/11 was, as much as JFK's assassination was, Lincoln's assassination, MLK's assassination, Watergate, the Trail of Tears. Five people died, that's more than the people killed at JFK's assassination (which led to the deaths of JFK, Officer Tippet, both at Oswald's hands, and then Oswald and Ruby). More than the numbers who died at Watergate (which was bloodless).

    January 6 demands a reproof, demands accountability, and demands an political action to ensure that this stain remains permanent.

    When kids are asked in quizzes name the President who was impeached twice? It should be a one syllable response.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildling View Post
    Yeah especially the lady who went there on her private jet.
    The revolution will arrive in the limousine on red carpet straight from the airport to the barricade to the hotel, comrade.

  10. #21475
    I am invenitable Jack Dracula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Yes, we do need to redefine the US' view of its forces. From WWI on, its proponents have gotten away with framing its mission as "defending freedom" rather than "imposing will." Its officers know better.

    As to the draft, I'm of two minds. There's a definite downside to conditioning every able-bodied youth in the country, and putting them at old, greedy, ruthless politicians' beck and call. There's also a definite upside - at least, in a democratic republic - to making every parent in the nation keenly interested in what a nation does with its forces (assuming, of course, that the state allows no privileged exemptions [yah, I know how naive it is]).
    The wealthy will find ways around the draft using influence the poorest don't have.
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  11. #21476

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    Quote Originally Posted by williamtheday View Post
    Are we being too hard on those "poor working class volk" who stormed the Capitol to end the tyranny of the "ruling class"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildling View Post
    Yeah especially the lady who went there on her private jet.
    What Wildling said. Those present were upper-class white racists, a smattering of extremist legislators from around the country, and literal Neo-Nazis and Neo-Confederates.

    F*** all those people. If you had actual working class people there, they might have done something rather than just wandered in the building for selfies.

    But you didn't. You had stupid rich people, dumbs*** racists, and the only ones that scared me were the paramilitary guys using the dumb ones as cover for something far more planned, and far more sinister. But that last group of terrorists didn't consider that the people they wanted to kidnap/kill would be whisked into secure locations by Capitol Police and Secret Service.
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  12. #21477
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChadH View Post
    The wealthy will find ways around the draft using influence the poorest don't have.
    Even in the fake country of the CSA during the Civil war. Could avoid the draft if you owned a certain number of slaves. That is the American way when it comes to who is drafted in the army.
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  13. #21478
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I get what you are saying but They have declared a side already. They are on film saying they are against it. They tweeted and posted on facebook. They have made thier stance known.
    ...and can claim, "but that was before 1/6," unless forced to vote on it.

  14. #21479
    Ultimate Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    ...and can claim, "but that was before 1/6," unless forced to vote on it.
    Hell it was after 1/6. They will back track. but many have backtracked even when presented with an official record.
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  15. #21480
    Ultimate Member babyblob's Avatar
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    These people are garbage. They will lie and back track even if they are on record. They will find some way to explain it away. Do the impeachment that is fine and I will support it. But put more focus on supporting a full investigation and holding these people accountable and punish them.
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