All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Steel Inquisitor]

Sanders is far more popular and well liked in America than Corbyn in the UK for one thing, and the entire issue with Corbyn in the UK (i.e. he's genuinely anti-imperialist in a country that still largely thinks Imperialism is something to see as a "positive idea gone bad" rather than "bad from the start") isn't there at all with him. The whole issue of making Corbyn an anti-semite because he's critical of Israel would never have worked with someone like Bernie.

Corbyn is unpopular for many, many things not just the antisemitism. Except being anti-imperialist is not why people in Labor didn't like him, it;'s how he does that that alienates people. You're either on Corbyn's team or you're gone. There is no compromise with Corbyn. Nobody had to do anything to make Corbyn look like an anti-semite, he did that to himself. It's one thing for the right to do this, it's quite another when he fails to address concerns within Labor itself. It's true Bernie's more liked than Corbyn, but that's because he's never been in a position like the presidential race - the risk he was compared to Corbyn is that he might have got a loss as badly as Corbyn's, and Trump didn't need to have that to win just demotivating enough voters would do that. The right would have got another angle on Bernie, it's not like he's bulletproof. All they need is the Communist canard, and that would have sway with voters in both parties. Not because he's a Communist but because he's given ammo to his opponents for years that they can mine ad he continues to do this even during elections. It's why they wanted him over Hillary.

Anyway, the primary performance is irrelevant. Had Sanders or Warren made it to the general election, I don't think you can rule them out from winning.

Primaries are practice for the presidential race, and he has trouble making the same mistakes when he's running for election.

Remember per Allan Lichtman's Keys to the White House, an election is a referendum on the Incumbent and the Incumbent's party, so the challenger's campaign matters little except for "Challenger charisma" and Bernie is more charismatic than Biden, so he'd get one key more than Biden in that slot. Warren probably not. Since she's too much of a wonk to work on the campaign and while she does great in showpiece debates (like destroying Bloomberg's political future), she wasn't able to articulate that to her base.

Self reflection and analysis is crucial for politicians, it also shows that they're willing to be humble and prioritise strengthening their weaknesses. A challenger who fails to do this sends a bad message about how they govern if they won because if they're not going to do that running against Democrats how are they going to fare with real power with millions of lives at stake? You know what politicians need to win elections? Not do everything possible to alienate the voting blocs they're trying to get the votes from. Bernie is really bad at doing this. Bloomberg was more in tune with black voters than he was! Imagine if he said that Castro comment while campaigning against Trump, been who he is that was a risk to Democrats we didn't have with Biden. I agree about Warren.

[Amadeus Arkham]

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Corbyn is unpopular for many, many things not just the antisemitism.

The anti-semitism issue was the defining one though.

Except being anti-imperialist is not why people in Labor didn't like him,

Corbyn's ideas and platform included reckoning with the Empire. Likewise, Corbyn was a vocal opponent of the Iraq War and the Labour Government of Tony Blair's handmaiden role in that conflict and a good chunk of his inner-party enemies were Blairites who backed the Iraq War.

The Iraq War was far more destructive to UK politics than US politics, precisely because the Labour government, the Left party openly and stupidly backed W.'s drive to war. That single decision is the source of all its woes. No Iraq, no Brexit.

...the risk he was compared to Corbyn is that he might have got a loss as badly as Corbyn's,

If not Corbyn, people would bring up George McGovern or Henry Wallace or other quite radical political figures who tend to not make it for fears of electability.

But fundamentally, as Lichtman has shown, elections are about the Incumbent and not the candidate and the campaign. HRC could have run in 2020 and won against Trump. I am not saying Biden was a bad candidate or he ran a bad campaign or anything just that you can run the best campaign in the world and still come up short if the odds aren't entirely with you.

If Bernie runs, he probably doesn't take Florida. But then neither did Biden. I don't think anti-Castro sentiment is such a hard thing to overcome on the national level.

[Amadeus Arkham]

Pence confirms in a letter to Nancy Pelosi that he will not invoke the 25th amendment as he believes it will, “set a terrible precedent.”

Let the impeachment begin!

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Pence confirms in a letter to Nancy Pelosi that he will not invoke the 25th amendment as he believes it will, “set a terrible precedent.”

Coward to the end. I hope his family never looks him in the eye again for denying justice to them, for the fact that his boss tried to murder them all, and he proved unable to protect them.

Remember on January 6, it wasn't the Congressional delegates but their families and guests who were also there. That included McConnell's wife, his children, while his brother is a member of the House. The Putsch could have killed them all.

Let the impeachment begin!

If you listen closely, you can hear the sound of Nancy Pelosi cracking her knuckles.

[DrNewGod]

If the Senate could vote on impeachment anonymously (and it should not be able to), I doubt Trump would have survived the last go-round.

There are too many afraid of what Trump's mob will do to them (or, worse in their minds) their political prospects. Even now. I hope I'm wrong, but I'll believe this Senate will convict Trump when I see it.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Coward to the end. I hope his family never looks him in the eye again for denying justice to them, for the fact that his boss tried to murder them all, and he proved unable to protect them.

Remember on January 6, it wasn't the Congressional delegates but their families and guests who were also there. That included McConnell's wife, his children, while his brother is a member of the House. The Putsch could have killed them all.

Pfft! Those degenerates are probably fine with having been put on the firing line. Trump before party, party before family.

If you listen closely, you can hear the sound of Nancy Pelosi cracking her knuckles.

Yeah, methinks Nancy is ready to throw down.

[Wildling]

Pence confirms in a letter to Nancy Pelosi that he will not invoke the 25th amendment as he believes it will, “set a terrible precedent.”

Merits a "as opposed to what by now, I'm all ears all day" response.

All ears not literal if Pence has to mail letters from the doormat bunker.

[Mister Mets]

There is a better argument for conservatives voting for better candidates in their own primaries rather than fantasize about sabotaging the Democrat Primaries.

There is a better argument for conservatives to search whatever is left of their metaphorical soul.

There are always better arguments.



Attachment 104696



How? Biden's actual platform after the primaries, was a good deal further to the left than at the primary level. Bernie Sanders' supporters and others campaigned heavily in Arizona and others, helping in part to flip the state.

Remember ultimately the Democrats won by being Democrats, not moving to the center.

I think you misunderstood my point.

The argument others suggested was that decent conservatives should leave the Republican party.

I considered the implications of that, with five million conservatives who don't like Trump (three million voters Gary Johnson gained in 2016 plus two million Romney- Clinton voters) joining the Democrats. I was wondering if Democrats want that.

In this case, when we're voting in Democratic primaries, we wouldn't be voting to sabotage Democrats. We would be voting for our preferred candidate.

The 2020 Democratic primary did have 36,917,179 votes, so an influx of a few million conservatives wouldn't always be enough to determine the winner, but it would shake things up.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

The argument others suggested was that decent conservatives should leave the Republican party.

Either leave the party or radically divest yourself from MAGA and force the party to do so by calling for the removal of Cruz/Hawley/McCarthy and/or censure of those who refused to certify the election.

Insist the Republican party, and its leaders like Jim Jordan unequivocally admit that the election of 2020 was free and fair, without irregularities and any attempt to contest or challenge or overturn and halt it was found on lies.

In any case...decent conservatives have long left the Republican party in favor of Democrats. The Rockefeller Republicans, the progressive Northeastern Republican wing came into the Democrat party in the '80s and '90s, and that attrition of college-educated towards the Dems has continued.

So "decent" conservatives (and I doubt if anyone coming in now is more decent than the exodus after Watergate and Ford's pardon of Nixon) have long come to the Democrats. And it's not a case that they on coming in, moved the party to the center or any such thing.

In this case, when we're voting in Democratic primaries, we wouldn't be voting to sabotage Democrats. We would be voting for our preferred candidate.

You vote Democrat because you like the party of Civil Rights, the party of FDR-JFK-Obama, you sign up and accept that. Most Republican-Dem voters sign up for that.

[Amadeus Arkham]

Fingers crossed McConnell does the right thing, even if the underlying motive is to rid the GOP of Trump’s influence in order to get a more stable face to lead the party.

[worstblogever]

Either leave the party or radically divest yourself from MAGA and force the party to do so by calling for the removal of Cruz/Hawley/McCarthy and/or censure of those who refused to certify the election.

This is the moment. The GOP has to excise the venom from the wound. All the insurrectionist loons. There's 2 Senators, and at the moment, less than 10 members of the House who they need to expel, and then unite to call the traitors to the country that they are. AND get Fox News to back them on it.

They've closed ranks and defended the worst of their ilk for too long. They never really stood up to Steve King. Steve f***ing King.

This is their moment. To draw a line for the good of the nation and say direct calls for undemocratic incitement of a mob to carry out the assassination of foes are beyond the pale. That... is not a lot to ask in the name of "unity".

[Gray Lensman]

I certainly don't want to hear anymore of the "holding the instigators of an attempted coup accountable prevents unity" garbage out of anyone. First, I want impeachment, then a criminal trial, but in the end...

It ain't over till the fat baby swings.

[Wildling]

I certainly don't want to hear anymore of the "holding the instigators of an attempted coup accountable prevents unity" garbage out of anyone. First, I want impeachment, then a criminal trial, but in the end...

It ain't over till the fat baby swings.

I'm so sick of the Unity platitude that now I'm starting to see Steppenwolf instead of Republicans spewing that line in the Justice League movie (which just like -hopefully- the current GOP was generally considered to be so much of a botched failure its handlers agreed to try it again).

[DrNewGod]

I just can't believe we're far enough into The Twilight Zone to see Mitch turn. And given the last 6 days, that's saying something.

What could possibly motivate these signals?

• Mitch's corporate masters saying Trump and his acolytes have outlived their utilty now they've got the taxes, and the judges fixed?
• Trump's real power in the party (his raving mob) being diluted into impotence by the shutdown of their communications?
• A threat to keep Trump tame on which Mitch hopes never to act?
• A lesson to would-be Trump-successors about their place relative to The Truly Powerful?
• A basic **** You to Trump in his last days?

All of it sounds very dangerous unless there's a guy with an enormous syringe of ...say... nicotine standing right behind The Don 24/7.