All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[BeastieRunner]

I'm still trying to figure out what happened with Miami-Dade County and why Biden's support collapsed there so much from Clinton's in 2016. Florida has always been a fairly close state. Did folks there really buy Trump's argument about Biden being a Trojan Horse for socialism? And, if they did, how do you plan on combatting that moving forward given that it was clear misinformation then, but the policies will be ambiguous enough (as well as the framing of what it means to be truly "socialist") that this could become a self-fulfilling prophecy of disinformation?

Looking at the demo info, it appears to be an age thing.

[Robotman]

I'm still trying to figure out what happened with Miami-Dade County and why Biden's support collapsed there so much from Clinton's in 2016. Florida has always been a fairly close state. Did folks there really buy Trump's argument about Biden being a Trojan Horse for socialism? And, if they did, how do you plan on combatting that moving forward given that it was clear misinformation then, but the policies will be ambiguous enough (as well as the framing of what it means to be truly "socialist") that this could become a self-fulfilling prophecy of disinformation?

There was also a seemingly big misinformation campaign aimed at Spanish speaking Floridians.

Florida Latinos swamped by wild conspiracy theories

In South Florida, veteran Latino Democratic strategist Evelyn Pérez-Verdia noticed this summer that the WhatsApp groups dedicated to updates on the pandemic and news for the Colombian and Venezuelan communities became intermittently interspersed with conspiracy theories from videos of far-right commentators or news clips from new Spanish-language sites, like Noticias 24 and PanAm Post, and the YouTube-based Informativo G24 website.

“I’ve never seen this level of disinformation, conspiracy theories and lies,” Pérez-Verdia, who is of Colombian descent, said. “It looks as if it has to be coordinated.”

[Revolutionary_Jack]

There was also a seemingly big misinformation campaign aimed at Spanish speaking Floridians.

Florida Latinos swamped by wild conspiracy theories

In South Florida, veteran Latino Democratic strategist Evelyn Pérez-Verdia noticed this summer that the WhatsApp groups dedicated to updates on the pandemic and news for the Colombian and Venezuelan communities became intermittently interspersed with conspiracy theories from videos of far-right commentators or news clips from new Spanish-language sites, like Noticias 24 and PanAm Post, and the YouTube-based Informativo G24 website.

“I’ve never seen this level of disinformation, conspiracy theories and lies,” Pérez-Verdia, who is of Colombian descent, said. “It looks as if it has to be coordinated.”

I also think candidate was an issue. HRC and Obama generated more hype than Biden and Pandemic meant a front-porch campaign, so that meant it wasn't enough to cross over.

I don't think Florida is a permanent red state by any means.

[Wildling]

I'm still trying to figure out what happened with Miami-Dade County and why Biden's support collapsed there so much from Clinton's in 2016. Florida has always been a fairly close state. Did folks there really buy Trump's argument about Biden being a Trojan Horse for socialism? And, if they did, how do you plan on combatting that moving forward given that it was clear misinformation then, but the policies will be ambiguous enough (as well as the framing of what it means to be truly "socialist") that this could become a self-fulfilling prophecy of disinformation?

I assume after enough mornings looking down their pants and finding out they haven't been Castrated by Fidel Biden, Floridians will still have more than enough talking heads informing them Biden is under the thrall of Countess Alexandria Ocasio Bathory for even more nefarious ends. I think the vociferous right already assumes the next administration is in the Squad's pocket.

[Mister Mets]

I disagree. I think that what Trump, and his followers, believe is pretty coherently broken down in here. Most people who follow Trump at least agree, in some part, with the core tenets outlined below:

"Make America Great Again" is a statement that allows voters to project their own views on it. One person may think it's about getting back to a society in which a blue collar worker makes enough money to support a family. Another may think it's about restoring an earlier sense of community. Another might think it's about keeping the neighborhood white.

Some of the "America first" policies are going to be maintained by the Biden administration. Countries that have relied on the United States are going to be asked to pay more for their defense. There will continue to be pushback against Chinese intellectual property theft.

From previous discussions on immigration policy it seems the majority of the board is under the impression Democrats believe that "Citizenship is a privilege to be doled out to the chosen few." The alternative is open borders.

[BeastieRunner]

Not only is Giuliani not on Team Trump, but is a witness, AND is reportedly has not ... shocker incoming ... been paid by Trump.

[Wildling]

Not only is Giuliani not on Team Trump, but is a witness, AND is reportedly has not ... shocker incoming ... been paid by Trump.

I'd think Dominion will also announce in due time he's sued for election fraud misinformation for a delightful amount Rudy wishes he had. The Kraken and the My Pillow guy are already in, Rudy can fart in their jail cell as far as I'm concerned.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Not only is Giuliani not on Team Trump, but is a witness, AND is reportedly has not ... shocker incoming ... been paid by Trump.

And isn’t there some sort of movement underway to get Rantin’ Rudy disbarred?

[green_garnish]

"Make America Great Again" is a statement that allows voters to project their own views on it. One person may think it's about getting back to a society in which a blue collar worker makes enough money to support a family. Another may think it's about restoring an earlier sense of community. Another might think it's about keeping the neighborhood white.

No. It's been indelibly perverted into a white nationalist chant.

Some of the "America first" policies are going to be maintained by the Biden administration. Countries that have relied on the United States are going to be asked to pay more for their defense. There will continue to be pushback against Chinese intellectual property theft.

Those things were pushed by democratic a administration's and blocked by republican Congress.

From previous discussions on immigration policy it seems the majority of the board is under the impression Democrats believe that "Citizenship is a privilege to be doled out to the chosen few." The alternative is open borders.

I assume this is a typo and you meant Republican?

[TheDarman]

"Make America Great Again" is a statement that allows voters to project their own views on it. One person may think it's about getting back to a society in which a blue collar worker makes enough money to support a family. Another may think it's about restoring an earlier sense of community. Another might think it's about keeping the neighborhood white.

"Restoration" is a pretty clear appeal to a time back before Obama "ruined" the country. That was always the message, regardless of who chose to wear blinders on it. Most people who followed didn't though. They knew what it meant and liked it. (See also: the Daily Show interactions with Trump supporters in 2016.)

Some of the "America first" policies are going to be maintained by the Biden administration. Countries that have relied on the United States are going to be asked to pay more for their defense. There will continue to be pushback against Chinese intellectual property theft.

Countries had been privately asked to step up defense spending before Trump and had complied prior to Trump's request of that. Trump likes to take credit, but first signs of increases happened over Obama's final two years. The argument for the TPP, meanwhile, was designed to reign in China--from intellectual property theft to labor standards to climate change policy. These were all Obama-era policy initiatives. And, in the latter case, was actually handled better under Obama than under Trump, who was simply much more heavy-handed.

From previous discussions on immigration policy it seems the majority of the board is under the impression Democrats believe that "Citizenship is a privilege to be doled out to the chosen few." The alternative is open borders.

The alternative is not open borders in the same way the alternative to the NRA's position is not merely "get rid of all guns". It's reductio ad absurdum. When people say that, they mean that Trump has had a particular preference for allowing European immigration while shying away from immigration from other parts of the world--with a particular xenophobic attitude being directed towards Latinx folks. This is instead of different Visas getting priority or increases (or even decreases); it is clearly done with racist intent.

[TheDarman]

I also think candidate was an issue. HRC and Obama generated more hype than Biden and Pandemic meant a front-porch campaign, so that meant it wasn't enough to cross over.

Most of what I've seen is that Hispanic groups, generally speaking (of course), prefer rhetoric that is talking about how the "best is yet to come". Aspirational messages work well for them. Biden's message on the economy and the pandemic was necessarily realistic and dark, while promising that he would focus on correcting for these issues (but stating that it would take time). Plus, Republicans were able to close the gap on registration because they were door-knocking while Democrats weren't. Then, there was historic disinformation perpetuated while Democrats didn't really have the infrastructure in place to reach these voters more directly.

I don't think Florida is a permanent red state by any means.

Me neither.

The last election in Florida was insanely close, with Rick Scott barely eeking out a victory over the Democratic-incumbent senator. Obama won the Florida election in 2012 and 2008. Clinton was only beat by a point in 2016.

Part of the problem was that Biden's main message was COVID. It was a great unifying message and spoke to everyone (and, I think, really led to higher levels of turnout). He didn't attack the other issues, like immigration, with the same fervor that Clinton's campaign did. In a normal election, those issues would've received more attention. That said, I think that Biden is really emphasizing it in the early days as president so we'll see if there might be some credit given to him for immigration reform.

[DrNewGod]

And isn’t there some sort of movement underway to get Rantin’ Rudy disbarred?

The NY Bar Association is cancelling his membership, which - I was a bit surprised to discover - is not the same thing as being disbarred. It doesn't prevent him from practicing law, just - it sounds like - from attending the annual cocktail and whatnot. Being disbarred apparently, takes official action by a judicial review committee (doing this from memory, so don't pummel me if I've got the name wrong). My two take-aways:

• Disbarment is a shared action by the Bar Association and the Court System (at least in NY)
• This was more posturing than meaningful consequence.

[Malvolio]

I was just reading about how they're cleaning the White House from top to bottom before the Bidens move in. They are focusing on carpets, drapes and other surfaces to get rid of Covid 19 and "..any other possible infections." That's an interesting way of putting it. Oh, and they're also bringing in a new mattress and box spring, but that's something they do with any new President coming in.

[PwrdOn]

Countries that have relied on the United States are going to be asked to pay more for their defense.

I don't think that makes the patron-client relationship quite explicit enough. Maybe we need to start charging all the NATO countries a jizya tax, take their firstborn sons hostage to be raised as Americans, demand ceremonial offerings of earth and water or something like that.

[Mister Mets]

No. It's been indelibly perverted into a white nationalist chant.



Those things were pushed by democratic a administration's and blocked by republican Congress.



I assume this is a typo and you meant Republican?

It's not a typo.

In earlier discussions, people have suggested that Democratic officeholders and officials do support clear limits on legal immigration and that this is so obvious it's worth bringing up earlier things I've said about the topic every now and then.
https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post4813277

"Restoration" is a pretty clear appeal to a time back before Obama "ruined" the country. That was always the message, regardless of who chose to wear blinders on it. Most people who followed didn't though. They knew what it meant and liked it. (See also: the Daily Show interactions with Trump supporters in 2016.)



Countries had been privately asked to step up defense spending before Trump and had complied prior to Trump's request of that. Trump likes to take credit, but first signs of increases happened over Obama's final two years. The argument for the TPP, meanwhile, was designed to reign in China--from intellectual property theft to labor standards to climate change policy. These were all Obama-era policy initiatives. And, in the latter case, was actually handled better under Obama than under Trump, who was simply much more heavy-handed.



The alternative is not open borders in the same way the alternative to the NRA's position is not merely "get rid of all guns". It's reductio ad absurdum. When people say that, they mean that Trump has had a particular preference for allowing European immigration while shying away from immigration from other parts of the world--with a particular xenophobic attitude being directed towards Latinx folks. This is instead of different Visas getting priority or increases (or even decreases); it is clearly done with racist intent.

For some people, restoration is largely about Obama. But for others, it's about things that predated Obama (endless wars in the Middle East, the consequences of the 2008 financial collapse or the 1993 North Amercia Free Trade Agreement.)

I'll certainly agree that Trump is more heavy-handed than other officials. But the idea that America is sometimes getting ripped off globally, and this is something we should protect against, is not unique to Trump. To add to that, the majority of the population is under the impression that the United States spends a lot more money on foreign aid than it really does, which makes the view that America is not doing enough for itself more popular.

If citizenship is not a privilege to be doled out to the chosen few (the summary of Trump's views), then we are going to pretty much have open borders. I can understand the argument that Trump's understood immigration policy is to limit citizenship to rich white people, but that's a different view to articulate.