All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Oh for sure. And that would be why Biden and his caucus can't really waste time trying to negotiate on (and get five insurrectionists onboard with) a new economic recovery package. Any further time wasted trying to get them on board is time the damage to the economy becomes more and more entrenched and permanently damaging.

It does seem Biden does recognize this. He's tellling the Dems to pass it before March ends.

And Warnock and Ossoff are pushing for this, arguing that their entire Senate Majority (which they delivered as they are insisting in a super casual way) was won on this promise.
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com...nd-and-deliver

And Republican moderates are being all sniffy about how the Dems' body language is basically, "Put up or shut up" and that this is going to happen with Harris' vote or with theirs.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

But weren't all the ones embracing the dumbassery just the grunts/useful idiots/impulsive types/etc.

A lot of these "grunts" were actually pretty wealthy small business owners, CEOs, super-Karen realtors, some veterans who you could call actual grunts except a lot of them were air force officers.

Calling them "grunts" is a misnomer in terms of suggesting that this crowd was more low-class than their actual composition really was. I mean the Putsch was the great unmasking in terms of revealing that the core radical base of Trumpism was in fact a section of the monied middle-class who come from neighborhoods that in their lifetimes went frm majority white to mixed and didn't like what that meant.

... that, if not stamped out by the current authorities, were coldly "discarded" by the smarter fellas planning behind the scenes once their usefulness expired?

Have they been "discarded" though? Remember that the Putsch of Jan. 6 is still early days in its legal life, we have yet to see big trials, convictions, and so on.

They've been discarded by Trump in the sense of not getting a pardon...but the Republican establishment as a whole still embraces Qanonists like Boebert and Greene, and the feckless and worthless Kevin McCarthy has become their puppet, the tail wagging the dog as it were. Right now the GOP is in a mode of crisis with splits and divisions and people are trying to carve up Trump's base and there's a rush to see who can claim leadership.

[TheDarman]

It does seem Biden does recognize this. He's tellling the Dems to pass it before March ends.

And Warnock and Ossoff are pushing for this, arguing that their entire Senate Majority (which they delivered as they are insisting in a super casual way) was won on this promise.
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com...nd-and-deliver

And Republican moderates are being all sniffy about how the Dems' body language is basically, "Put up or shut up" and that this is going to happen with Harris' vote or with theirs.

Frankly, Republicans have a political incentive to slow the economy and prevent quick relief. The more disappointing Biden's first two years in office are, the better the chances are that Biden isn't rewarded like Bush was in 2002 with a larger majority in Congress. That isn't to say that they would ever say that "nothing is needed", but they would try to quibble with the price point to try to drag it down and slow recovery. And, if that fails, then they can go to voters and say, "They exploded the deficit!!" It would be a most hypocritical and cynical stunt, but I wholly believe we will be on the defensive about fiscal responsibility come 2022.

[BeastieRunner]

Following the Capitol Insurrection, White Nationalist Novels Surge In Popularity.

https://jezebel.com/following-the-ca...t-n-1846156574

One would think the crappy cosplay seen in those photos and the borderline slapstick accounts of how easily participants got (themselves) arrested would be enough to turn more people off that kind of thing.

Maybe calling it an "insurrection" was a mistake, as such a term lends a sort of romanticism that might be attracting more of these assholes. All too easy for each of us as human beings to be tempted by larger-than-life interpretations of the world around us, no matter how benign or toxic.

I have been reading a lot of books on white nationalism and conspiracy theories because I want to figure out why people flock to them.

Not because I believe in them.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Frankly, Republicans have a political incentive to slow the economy and prevent quick relief. The more disappointing Biden's first two years in office are, the better the chances are that Biden isn't rewarded like Bush was in 2002 with a larger majority in Congress. That isn't to say that they would ever say that "nothing is needed", but they would try to quibble with the price point to try to drag it down and slow recovery. And, if that fails, then they can go to voters and say, "They exploded the deficit!!" It would be a most hypocritical and cynical stunt, but I wholly believe we will be on the defensive about fiscal responsibility come 2022.

Fiscal Responsibility isn't in vogue anymore. The IMF and others are on the side of a big stimulus.

And the economy is poised for a recovery by then as and when the vaccine gets delivered.

[TheDarman]

Fiscal Responsibility isn't in vogue anymore. The IMF and others are on the side of a big stimulus.

It never was. It was always a cudgel to beat your opponents with. The truth of the matter is the only two presidents over the last thirty years have reduced the deficit from the time they got into office to the time they left office were Democrats (Clinton left a surplus; Obama cut it in half). All of this handwringing about the deficit is manufactured, faux outrage driven by a party who lies to people that tax cuts pay for themselves and increase the well-being of individuals in the economy when rich folks have great authority to just use it to authorize stock buybacks and artificially increase the price of their stock.

And the economy is poised for a recovery by then as and when the vaccine gets delivered.

One can hope. But the economy isn't just gonna bounce back completely as a result of vaccine development. Businesses closed. Jobs were lost. There needs to be substantial community investment to get people back to work in the intermediate period before businesses can start up again.

[babyblob]

I better tell my sister and her husband that their votes don't count any more if the Republican legislature doesn't like how the election turned out. But this is the party that wants unity, right?

The GOP is all for Unity as long as they can bully who they want to get what they want. But the second someone stands up to them that person is the problem. All they want is to divide the country.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

It never was. It was always a cudgel to beat your opponents with. The truth of the matter is the only two presidents over the last thirty years have reduced the deficit from the time they got into office to the time they left office were Democrats (Clinton left a surplus; Obama cut it in half). All of this handwringing about the deficit is manufactured, faux outrage driven by a party who lies to people that tax cuts pay for themselves and increase the well-being of individuals in the economy when rich folks have great authority to just use it to authorize stock buybacks and artificially increase the price of their stock.



One can hope. But the economy isn't just gonna bounce back completely as a result of vaccine development. Businesses closed. Jobs were lost. There needs to be substantial community investment to get people back to work in the intermediate period before businesses can start up again.

Well 2022 is going to be difficult, and I take it as a positive that so many Democrats are public about being haunted by 2010, and the Obama Administration being hijacked by leftover Clintonism to slow drag and essentially hide the policies they passed that actually helped people. Obama and Biden hiding their shortening of the poll tax that actually put a ton of money in the hands of low-income people is the kind of bone-headed anti-stunt that boggles the mind. It's the kind of thing that proves that Obama was genuinely a principled guy because there's no other excuse for not publicizing that. That was a mistake and Schumer and others are public about being haunted by that.

It could be the case that the Dems do everything different and everything correct...and still come up short in 2022, that can happen for a variety of reasons. But at least make a different set of mistakes this time, guys.

[Ragged Maw]

I have been reading a lot of books on white nationalism and conspiracy theories because I want to figure out why people flock to them.

Not because I believe in them.

Oh. So more like a psychological/sociological examination of adherents than “read this manifesto in order to win at life”.

Calling them "grunts" is a misnomer in terms of suggesting that this crowd was more low-class than their actual composition really was. I mean the Putsch was the great unmasking in terms of revealing that the core radical base of Trumpism was in fact a section of the monied middle-class who come from neighborhoods that in their lifetimes went frm majority white to mixed and didn't like what that meant.

Still kind of falls into the “impulsive moron” category since they gambled their cushy corporate/military careers on playing dress-up and vandalizing a building, all while hoping that a President who was on his way out anyways would swoop in and save them.

And even then there’s still probably some romanticism involved. Wouldn’t be surprised if they were comparing themselves to the original Tea Partiers in Boston (which was likely itself more awkward than those Revolutionary tales would admit).

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Oh. So more like a psychological/sociological examination of adherents than “read this manifesto in order to win at life”.

I honestly don't think reading white nationalist manifestos is useful as an insight to psychology. Most of them aren't close readers i.e. page-to-page. The white nationalist texts they write are not as familiar to them as say, the Harry Potter books are to the HP fandom where they can quote chapter-and-verse, variant spellings across UK/US editions, and illustration by artist. Maybe a few of them read these white-nationalist propaganda novels but that would mostly be on the level of quote mining and using ideas to confirm the stuff they wanted to do and reinforce that.

Ultimately understanding white nationalists and Qanon-ists and other conspiracy-driven advocates of the "Big Lie" isn't hard. In America the "Big Lie" has had long shelf-lives. The "Lost Cause of the Confederacy" was the biggest of "the big lies" in terms of the falsehood it told, in terms of the fact that it has endured for a century-plus, and it was responsible for White Supremacy finding purchase in the North (the Second Klan found bigger membership in Northern States than the first one did), and the fact that practically every Civil War movie until the last decade perpetuated the falsehood that the Civil War wasn't about slavery.

[TheDarman]

Well 2022 is going to be difficult, and I take it as a positive that so many Democrats are public about being haunted by 2010[...]

Oh, for sure. I mean, Biden really was focused on selecting a DNC chair who would better understand what it would take to be competitive in even red states and districts. I was so happy to see him pick Jamie Harrison for the role. I understand people thought that that was a dumb move because he lost a Senate race in South Carolina, but 1) South Carolina is a very a red state that was gonna go for Trump by wide margins and was, therefore, very likely to go to Graham by virtue of him being the Republican in the race who also stood by Trump and 2) Biden was right to pick someone who could work full-time for the DNC and make sure we hit the ground running. I don't recall Obama being that interested in building Democrats' ground game in 2008. I think it was widely perceived as a move that would've been to consolidate political power rather than govern. But, after what the Republicans have done over the last ten years, it is clear that we need to be more aggressive in our strategy.

And I think we recognize that we need to go big or go home, quite literally. We will lose if we don't ensure that we deliver on promises that we made.

It could be the case that the Dems do everything different and everything correct...and still come up short in 2022, that can happen for a variety of reasons. But at least make a different set of mistakes this time, guys.

There needs to be improvement on the fielding of candidates, no doubt. And we need to pick more Warnocks and fewer Cunninghams.

By that, I don't mean running people of color, though I think we should be cognizant of the fact that, in the South in particular, our electoral strength comes from people of color. What I mean is that we should be focused on running candidates who are unapologetically left-of-center. I mean, Warnock and Ossoff didn't try to waffle on policy. They were clear that they would be to the left of a moderate candidate. They ran on a platform that was equally as left-wing as folks in my home state of Colorado, a state that went for Biden by 15 points. This waffling of policy just drives down the base support and doesn't win you any meaningful support from right-leaning independents. In right-wing states, you might need to run folks like Manchin, but they are always long-shot candidates with low chances of success. When running in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, we should have someone running like Ossoff or Warnock. I'm pleased to see the Lieutenant Governor make a run for it in Pennsylvania. We also need someone strong in Wisconsin. And here's hoping that Democrats really begin to target Texas (for governor) and North Carolina (for Senate) this cycle.

[Amadeus Arkham]

I have been reading a lot of books on white nationalism and conspiracy theories because I want to figure out why people flock to them.

Not because I believe in them.

Couldn’t bring myself to do that, but I’ve been lurking White Nationalist boards a lot in order to get insight into what drives their extremism and find out their perspective on things.

[Ragged Maw]

Couldn’t bring myself to do that, but I’ve been lurking White Nationalist boards a lot in order to get insight into what drives their extremism and find out their perspective on things.

Saw that post you cited before you deleted it. I’m curious as to whether he/she came to those conclusions (largely) on his/her own, or had to “soak” in far right media, echo chambers, and/or literature for a while first.

[Amadeus Arkham]

Saw that post you cited before you deleted it. I’m curious as to whether he/she came to those conclusions (largely) on his/her own, or had to “soak” in far right media, echo chambers, and/or literature for a while first.

I deleted it because I’m not sure it was allowed on this forum, but to answer your question I think it’s a little mix of both. He states he used to be a liberal before the ‘media lynching’ of George Zimmerman(lol what?) woke up him and begin doing some digging on some right-wing news outlets reporting on the story. Which is actually strikingly similar to the Charleston Shooter’s insane manifesto story. He did cite the Trayvon Martin case as being one of things to transform him into a ‘race realist’.

A thing I’ve noticed with these guys is that they tend to have a massive persecution complex. It’s quite sad.

[Ragged Maw]

A thing I’ve noticed with that these guys is that they tend to have a massive persecution complex. It’s quite sad.

A shared feeling of powerlessness does tend to come up often as a driving factor.