All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[numberthirty]

Politely, I would strenuously disagree. I don't remember if you are from the NY/NJ area, but if you are then maybe you saw things differently than I did. If you are not from the NY/NJ area, then you'd have to have lived through it to truly understand what was going on.

Sure, eventually a ship did arrive, but it often sat empty because there were no orders given in regards to how the ship was to be used and what patients it was supposed to receive. And that ship, in no way, helped NJ. We didn't have a ship here, all we had were hospitals short on staff, supplies, and overflowing with patients most of whom were too sick with COVID.

My Governor did the best he could, but it was a fight just to get the PPE and Equipment, and bed spaces to handle the growing number of cases.

It wasn't until the East Coast Alliance began working together that some improvements occurred, but that took a few months.

See, this is where I will need a pretty good reason why you would need an order to realize that it would be the perfect place to isolate elderly patients.

We are talking seriously "Basics 101..." stuff here.

I get the entire "PPE And So On..." aspect, and completely agree.

That said, when it comes to the elderly?

There is no real excuse for not having gone with a plan that was so obvious that the kids making up the crew at a Taco Bell could have come up with it.

Never mind that the bed spaces that you feel like were not there were there the second that you had a ship full of bed space.

Mind you, I'm not trying to be a jerk or butt heads just to do it.

That said, the means to have saved far more lives(particularly elderly live...) was there. It's unacceptable that it was only used about as well as it was.

[numberthirty]

I think you are very wrong about what was known and what needed to be done, and what could be done in the beginning. There were on average 10 to 15 thousand nursing home cases in NY, and you think a ship in NY harbor with a thousand beds would have solved that. Not to mention the Darwining procurement of PPEs because the Feds checked out. Medical treatment was all over the place as they tried to figure it out.
And you want to say that the surges in Florida and Texas in Fall and Winter, when we knew so much more and those States ignored it is not worse?
Try harder.

I now await your post howcBiden isn handling Covid any better than Trump.

Politely?

That bit in blue is seemingly more what someone would like to believe is the case than what actually is.

Past that?

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-...-200-patients/

Hospital ship Comfort departs NYC, having treated fewer than 200 patients

That headline alone tells you everything that you need to know.

The idea that it might not have been enough to completely stem the tide of elderly deaths?

It is a joke that is not even remotely funny once you see the number of patients that were actually treated on that ship.

There is no even remotely valid argument for that said ship could have been a more worthwhile asset than it was.

[numberthirty]

As for "What Was Known..."

Totally serious.

If you have some sort of news/media that points to that this was going to be potentially lethal to the elderly was not a "Known..." factor right off of the bat?

Could you make with the links?

Otherwise?

The idea we were in the dark about what was "Known..."?

Come on...

[numberthirty]

From early March last year...

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...people-at-risk

As coronavirus spreads, warnings become more urgent for the elderly and frail

[Gray Lensman]

See, this is where I will need a pretty good reason why you would need an order to realize that it would be the perfect place to isolate elderly patients.

We are talking seriously "Basics 101..." stuff here.

I get the entire "PPE And So On..." aspect, and completely agree.

That said, when it comes to the elderly?

There is no real excuse for not having gone with a plan that was so obvious that the kids making up the crew at a Taco Bell could have come up with it.

Never mind that the bed spaces that you feel like were not there were there the second that you had a ship full of bed space.

Mind you, I'm not trying to be a jerk or butt heads just to do it.

That said, the means to have saved far more lives(particularly elderly live...) was there. It's unacceptable that it was only used about as well as it was.

Hospital ships are best suited for dealing with violent trauma, it's what is expected in the military. The are very far from ideal for dealing with pandemics because they aren't designed with the thought of isolating patients. So instead of helping, they had just as much, if not more, potential to make things worse by becoming floating super spreader centers.

Another case of Trump not thinking even the slightest bit further than being able to take credit for something without questioning whether or not it works (or doing the follow through after the cameras leave).

[Kirby101]

And yet 30 remains silent about the obvious gross negligence of Abbot and DeSantis a full 9 months after COVID was raging. He would rather dwell on the frentic response of NY & NJ when we were far from certain about anything.
The Comfort would not have significantly altered what happened.

[numberthirty]

And yet 30 remains silent about the obvious gross negligence of Abbot and DeSantis a full 9 months after COVID was raging. He would rather dwell on the frentic response of NY & NJ when we were far from certain about anything.
The Comfort would not have significantly altered what happened.

Politely, this is simply an untrue statement.

That this was going to potentially be lethal if an elderly person contracted it?

That just is not true.

That bit about "Remaining Silent..." about the other two states?

That's provably false too, but probably not worth the nonsense.

As for The Comfort?

You will only be able to guess at that because no one even bothered to try to use it.

[numberthirty]

Hospital ships are best suited for dealing with violent trauma, it's what is expected in the military. The are very far from ideal for dealing with pandemics because they aren't designed with the thought of isolating patients. So instead of helping, they had just as much, if not more, potential to make things worse by becoming floating super spreader centers.

Another case of Trump not thinking even the slightest bit further than being able to take credit for something without questioning whether or not it works (or doing the follow through after the cameras leave).

If you had only put elderly who had already tested positive on the ship?

How, exactly, would that become a floating super spreader center?

[Kirby101]

Politely, this is simply an untrue statement.

That this was going to potentially be lethal if an elderly person contracted it?

That just is not true.

That bit about "Remaining Silent..." about the other two states?

That's provably false too, but probably not worth the nonsense.

As for The Comfort?

You will only be able to guess at that because no one even bothered to try to use it.

Because the Comfort was suppose to be used if the Hospitals ICUs were to capacity. Not to move nursing home tenants with Covid. And my "guess" is based on the numbers. You statement that it would have made a significant and large difference doesn't bare the facts.

And prove what I said is false, I just reread all your posts, nowhere do I see a mention of FL, TX or their Governors, only that NY and NJ should have prevented most of the COVID deaths because everyone knew what to do.

[numberthirty]

Because the Comfort was suppose to be used if the Hospitals ICUs were to capacity. Not to move nursing home tenants with Covid. And my "guess" is based on the numbers. You statement that it would have made a significant and large difference doesn't bare the facts.

And prove what I said is false, I just reread all your posts, nowhere do I see a mention of FL, TX or their Governors, only that NY and NJ should have prevented most of the COVID deaths because everyone knew what to do.

Don't know how much more plain I could have made it...

To me?

Absolutely not.

Each instance was a state just ignoring basic "Known..." medical reality for whatever reason.

That NY/NJ(NY. in particular...) eventually wised up? Does not excuse the damage done while they were seemingly(or, in the case of the ship? For a political end...) ignoring really basic medical reality.


That you got a handle on it? That doesn't excuse that it happened to start with. Actually, it's even worse because it was predictable and the resources were in place to have stopped it before it got rolling.

As for what's in green?

Trying to frame it as "They Screwed Up..." when NY/NJ(again NY, in particular...) had enough known quantity and Federal assistance that what happened never should have(or, at least to nowhere near that degree...)?

It's a non-starter.



Each one was/is a disaster that was the result of things that were knowable medical realities.

"Each..." would mean the four states that came up.

[numberthirty]

Never mind that "Each Instance..." was plain as day earlier in that post.

[Tami]

Don't know how much more plain I could have made it...



"Each..." would mean the four states that came up.

You are trying to simplify a very complicated issue and in doing so it makes you seem ignorant and arrogant. I don't lose my patience very often, but after the hell I went through last year, to have you dismiss it out of hand like that makes me wonder if you have been in a coma for the past 12 months.

[numberthirty]

As for this, it's also not anything like what was actually said.

...

And prove what I said is false, I just reread all your posts, nowhere do I see a mention of FL, TX or their Governors, only that NY and NJ should have prevented most of the COVID deaths because everyone knew what to do.

No one ever said "Most Of..."

If someone is specifically and repeatedly pointing out that they are talking about the elderly?

"Most..." ain't even on the table.

As for "Everyone Knew What To Do..."?

Again, that is something that no one ever said.

That said, even the L.A. Times knew(and were putting into headlines...) that the elderly were at a very particular risk in March of last year.

The idea that "What To Do..." when it came to the elderly was some mystery in March of last year?

Come on. That is just an incredibly foolish assertion. That they were at a very high risk was absolutely well known.

[numberthirty]

You are trying to simplify a very complicated issue and in doing so it makes you seem ignorant and arrogant. I don't lose my patience very often, but after the hell I went through last year, to have you dismiss it out of hand like that makes me wonder if you have been in a coma for the past 12 months.

Politely, what I have pointed out just is not complicated.

Would a more reasonable approach still have hit a brick wall?

Absolutely possible, and I have never said that a better approach would have been a simple and uncomplicated undertaking.

That said, everyone and their brother knew that the elderly were at a very serious risk very early last year.

That aspect of it simply was not even a little bit complicated.

As for that it might seem dismissive?

I haven't(and would not...) imply that.

Doesn't change the really basic reality that the risk the elderly were at was not some unknown.

[Kirby101]

Sure 30, they knew just as much last March as they knew in September, so "Each" equally messed up. And obviously from how the charts show the death rates, "Each" changed their policy to combat COVID.
All the same, both sides, sure.