All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[PwrdOn]

Good thing I didn't say any of that.

What are you trying to say then? What kind of leftist society should we be trying to emulate? It's easy to throw shade at other countries for their imperfections, but that doesn't excuse the fact that we've failed to achieve even the most basic benchmarks that these other countries have. I mean, how does not having universal health care make our racial policies are better than those in Europe?

I thought these charts were for economics and/or types of governments? Why do people use them for liberal vs conservative?

What do liberal and conservative even mean then, if not to describe your viewpoints about economics and government?

[OopsIdiditagain]

What are you trying to say then? What kind of leftist society should we be trying to emulate? It's easy to throw shade at other countries for their imperfections, but that doesn't excuse the fact that we've failed to achieve even the most basic benchmarks that these other countries have. I mean, how does not having universal health care make our racial policies are better than those in Europe?



What do liberal and conservative even mean then, if not to describe your viewpoints about economics and government?

It's based on social standards.

[PwrdOn]

It's based on social standards.

Social standards do not exist separately from economics or politics. Just being a blue-haired trans feminist doesn't makes you a liberal, it's what kind of society you advocate for that matters.

[Tami]

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis has declared a state of emergency after a significant leak at a storage pond of wastewater threatened to cause flooding and collapse a system with radioactive material.

If it wasn't real, I'd say it was from an episode of the Simpsons.

[Tendrin]

What are you trying to say then?

...that the people who tend to post memes like that are largely white Americans engaged in a narrow, class reductionist view of both American and global politics. Please stop trying to put words in my mouth.

[PwrdOn]

...that the people who tend to post memes like that are largely white Americans engaged in a narrow, class reductionist view of both American and global politics.

So what is the correct view then, after removing the class reductionist filter?

[Tendrin]

So what is the correct view then, after removing the class reductionist filter?

Once you include racial justice platforms, LGBTQ rights, preferred immigration policies, the conveniently white and European countries that are usually used to determine who's 'left' in that context starts to look a lot different. Just ask a trans person trying to access health care in the UK how similar the Tories and the Dems are.

A Freedom of Information request to the Laurels Gender Identity Clinic in Exeter reveals only two new patients were seen last year, despite a waiting list of over 2,500.

[PwrdOn]

Once you include racial justice platforms, LGBTQ rights, preferred immigration policies, the conveniently white and European countries that are usually used to determine who's 'left' in that context starts to look a lot different. Just ask a trans person trying to access health care in the UK how similar the Tories and the Dems are.

The Democratic party doesn't have particularly left wing positions on immigration or racial justice, and once you factor in that they are pretty much in full agreement with the Republicans about economic strong arm tactics and military adventurism abroad that are largely responsible for creating the flow of migrants and refugees, there's really not much to hang our hats on there. Yes, on the singular issue of trans rights the Democrats have managed to stake out a position to the left of most of its counterparts, but that's really only because it isn't really an issue that's on the minds of most of the rest of the world, and again there is hardly universal agreement among the party to advance pro-trans policies, particularly among those politicians in precarious swing seats. A shaky and inconsistent commitment to various socially progressive causes in no way supersedes the party's total embrace of neoliberal economic policies.

[Tendrin]

The Democratic party doesn't have particularly left wing positions on immigration or racial justice and once you factor in that they are pretty much in full agreement with the Republicans about economic strong arm tactics and military adventurism abroad

Okay, but even if we use your definition of what constitutes immigration or racial justice and you're going to apply those standards to Democrats on the whole, you still can not pretend that they are to the right of the European powers, who are frequently just as or even more hostile to racial justice and immigration on those terms than they are, and are certainly responsible for the conditions driving people from Africa into Europe. Again: what the image is saying is only true if you're willing to ignore a large swath of policies and politics, and it's definitely not true if you talk about what they actually advocate as a party. Poland has universal health care. It also just banned abortion.

Yes, on the singular issue of trans rights the Democrats have managed to stake out a position to the left of most of its counterparts, but that's really only because it isn't really an issue that's on the minds of most of the rest of the world

This shows a deep lack of knowledge about trans rights globally.

[PwrdOn]

Okay, but if you're going to apply those standards to Democrats on the whole, you can not pretend that they are to the right of the European powers, who are frequently even more hostile to racial justice and immigration than they are. Again: what the image is saying is only true if you're willing to ignore a large swath of policies, and it's definitely not true if you talk about what they actually advocate as a party.

This shows a deep lack of knowledge about trans rights globally.

Let's not kid ourselves here, the push for trans rights in the US is an extremely recent phenomenon, and I would wager that most self-declared "trans allies" didn't have any problem making transphobic jokes 10-15 years ago and probably still aren't completely comfortable actually being around them, so maybe this isn't really something we should be getting on our high horse about.

And as far as racial policies go, broadly speaking I would say that Europe's ruling parties are mostly well-intentioned but clueless about the subject, but that it is the general public over there that still holds a troubling array of racist views. During the refugee crisis the EU leaders tried to adopt a more open and accommodating policy at first, but the scale of the public backlash made that position untenable. But look at what's happening with the "migrant surge" going on right now, the Biden administration's policies aren't fundamentally different from Trump's, it's just that the metal cages have been replaced with plastic ones.

[Tendrin]

You know what, nevermind. I've said enough.

The chart remains inaccurate except for *maybe* in a very narrow way, and I don't even think it's all that accurate there either.

[CaptainEurope]

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis has declared a state of emergency after a significant leak at a storage pond of wastewater threatened to cause flooding and collapse a system with radioactive material.

If it wasn't real, I'd say it was from an episode of the Simpsons.

He will probably use the state of emergency to quickly do away with government regulations so that the invisible hand can rebuild quickly after the radiation goes away in 40,000 years.

[CaptainEurope]

Okay, but even if we use your definition of what constitutes immigration or racial justice and you're going to apply those standards to Democrats on the whole, you still can not pretend that they are to the right of the European powers, who are frequently just as or even more hostile to racial justice and immigration on those terms than they are, and are certainly responsible for the conditions driving people from Africa into Europe. Again: what the image is saying is only true if you're willing to ignore a large swath of policies and politics, and it's definitely not true if you talk about what they actually advocate as a party. Poland has universal health care. It also just banned abortion.



This shows a deep lack of knowledge about trans rights globally.

Yes, I think I pointed out before that one of the most powerful figured in the German socialist party Die Linke, Sarah Wagenknecht, is deeply xenophobic. My suspicion is that she has unresolved resentment towards the Iranian exchange student who fathered her but left.

Sahra Wagenknecht, the leader of Germany's far-left Die Linke party, has launched a new movement. It is called Aufstehen (literally translated, "stand up"). This in itself is not exceptional. Many other countries in Western Europe have left-wing parties of varying extremes.
Just think of the Dutch LinksGroen, the Danish Enhedslisten and Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party in the United Kingdom. But there is a difference between the movement proposed by Frau Wagenknecht. While the other leftist parties are composed of remnants of the 1968 generation and progressive millennials, with a healthy skepticism toward authoritarianism, Aufstehen is something altogether different. The movement is unashamedly populist -- and hostile toward immigration and other liberal causes.
Not surprisingly, such views have received praise from the far-right Alternative für Deutschland.

Germany's radical left is fueling anti-immigrant sentiment

[SquirrelMan]

That would be an inaccurate fact-check. By most standards, the Democrats are moving left and asking for more.

https://www.vox.com/2019/3/22/182598...ing-trump-2020

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...lains-how-why/

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...last-30-years/

One can believe it's a good thing that the left has gotten more aggressive, that they have further to go, or that they're not as willing to abuse processes as Republicans, but that's different from claiming that they haven't gotten more aggressive since 6-7 years ago.

"got more aggressive" is not exactly the same as "passing a big stimulus in a global crisis and standing up for more minorities than previously."

How many discussions about Both Siding do we need to have with you and Charley Barkley?

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis has declared a state of emergency after a significant leak at a storage pond of wastewater threatened to cause flooding and collapse a system with radioactive material.

If it wasn't real, I'd say it was from an episode of the Simpsons.

In any event, this is some seriously scary ****!