All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[babyblob]

If North and South Dakota became one State, their combined population would rank somewhere between Hawaii and Idaho.

DC has a larger population than either Vermont or Wyoming.

Let me ask this because I do not know. Are there any benefits for DC to become a state? Like would they get more funding, a change in services? How would it change from what it is now.

Other then EC votes and a change in the Senate and house?

[Tami]

Let me ask this because I do not know. Are there any benefits for DC to become a state? Like would they get more funding, a change in services? How would it change from what it is now.

Other then EC votes and a change in the Senate and house?

If the District of Columbia becomes a State: Fiscal Implications Alice M. Rivlin Monday, July 13, 2009

Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee:
The nation’s founders decided to carve a separate entity, the District of Columbia, out of Maryland and Virginia to serve as the capital of the new country. The decision doubtless seemed right at the time, but it has left the residents of modern DC with two serious problems: (1) they lack the democratic rights enjoyed by Americans who live in states: full self government and an equal voice in the national political process; (2) they lack sufficient financial resources to pay for high quality public services.

The District’s special status affects its ability to raise revenue and provide public services. First, although it is not a state, it must perform the functions of a state as well as those of a city government. Besides providing local services, such as schools, police and fire, it is responsible for motor vehicle services, Medicaid and mental health services, as well as higher education and other functions normally handled at the state level. Second, despite its state-like responsibilities, the District does not have full state taxing authority. Congress expressly prohibited the District from taxing the income earned within its borders by non-residents, a power that all states have. State income taxes apply to income earned in the state, by residents and non-residents alike. A few cities also have commuter taxes that apply to income earned by commuters in the city, but these are normally small. It is the lack of a state-level income tax on non-resident income that depresses the District’s revenue-raising capacity significantly. Third, the city’s largest employer, the federal government, uses city services, but does not pay property, sales or income taxes. The same is true of embassies and international institutions. Many tax-exempt non-profits also locate here to be near the federal government. Moreover, the federal government often fails to reimburse the District for the costs of dealing with major national events, such as inaugurations and demonstrations.

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[babyblob]

If the District of Columbia becomes a State: Fiscal Implications Alice M. Rivlin Monday, July 13, 2009





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Thank you. I will read this.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

If North and South Dakota became one State, their combined population would rank somewhere between Hawaii and Idaho.

DC has a larger population than either Vermont or Wyoming.

DC is more densely populated than NJ

If the land size of NJ was increased to be the same as California and the population density remained the same, New Jersey would have about 61% of the population of the entire US.

If you do the same for DC, then it would have about 6x the current population of the US.

Just a few interesting statistics.

Interesting stats indeed. Of course, Qpublicans will NEVER allow DC and/or Puerto Rico to join the Union because they fear residents in those new states would vote Democrat.

[Jack Dracula]

Interesting stats indeed. Of course, Qpublicans will NEVER allow DC and/or Puerto Rico to join the Union because they fear residents in those new states would vote Democrat.

If the GOP weren't so committed to disenfranchising people of color they'd gain a pretty reliable block of deeply Christian, conservative voters in both regions.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

If the GOP weren't so committed to disenfranchising people of color they'd gain a pretty reliable block of deeply Christian, conservative voters in both regions.

Well, for the GQP, racism, and keeping their feet firmly on the necks of minorities is the party's platform after all.

[Mister Mets]

It looks to me like there was little to no time to take action. As far as I know, the standard police procedure in these situations is to shoot. Taser, mace all those things have time delay... It's an unfortunate situation. I'm no law enforcement professional, but I don't see what else he could have done.

I heard Lebron James tweeted the officer's photo with a caption saying "You're next". That kind of crap is ridiculous and irresponsible. Not to mention dangerous.

I've seen that treated as if it were a call for violence. A generous interpretation of the statement in the context of Chauvin's guilty convictions is that the Columbus Ohio officer would be the next to be found guilty of murder after a fair trial. The superstar athlete is still in error, when targeting a middle class law enforcement agent. A relevant question is which celebrities are allowed to make these types of mistakes. Would it be okay if a conservative celebrity has a similar type of freakout.

If I knew I wouldn't be tired, I'd be activated in trying to do something.

Completely understandable. When you wrote "It just makes me want to bitch-slap someone who has the ability to stop this from happening but won't for the dumbest of reasons." I was wondering if you were referring to someone specific.

Interesting stats indeed. Of course, Qpublicans will NEVER allow DC and/or Puerto Rico to join the Union because they fear residents in those new states would vote Democrat.

The main reason there's interest from Democrats in DC becoming a state is the expectation that it'll be reliably Democratic.

If this was about representation in Congress and more flexibility with taxation, they could advocate for joining Maryland through the process of retrocession.

[Gray Lensman]

I've seen that treated as if it were a call for violence. A generous interpretation of the statement in the context of Chauvin's guilty convictions is that the Columbus Ohio officer would be the next to be found guilty of murder after a fair trial. The superstar athlete is still in error, when targeting a middle class law enforcement agent. A relevant question is which celebrities are allowed to make these types of mistakes. Would it be okay if a conservative celebrity has a similar type of freakout.

Completely understandable. When you wrote "It just makes me want to bitch-slap someone who has the ability to stop this from happening but won't for the dumbest of reasons." I was wondering if you were referring to someone specific.

The main reason there's interest from Democrats in DC becoming a state is the expectation that it'll be reliably Democratic.

If this was about representation in Congress and more flexibility with taxation, they could advocate for joining Maryland through the process of retrocession.

I thought Maryland doesn't want it?

[Mister Mets]

I dont think that's the point. Legit defensive shooting or not, the emotional toll can still be a bitch, especially given the climate today.

I get the argument about the emotional toll, but there should be a consistency in how we give people moral permission to be wrong when trying to advocate for policies. I think one of the lessons of the last few years is that inconvenient truths should be spoken, and that people who are wrong in public should be corrected. This applies to Republicans, who most of the people here believe (correctly) should acknowledge a lost election, and to police, who most of us believe should report the wrongdoing of their colleagues. But this should also apply to everyone.

Someone else can take a different position. Perhaps there can be a generous view that all sides can make mistakes, and that this is fine and acceptable. There can be a view that some people are allowed to be wrong, but others are not, although this should still be made explicit, so that it's clear which sides are being held to a higher standard.

Oh, come on, too late?

This isn't some crazed, unstoppable zombie from a horror movie we're talking about, it's a 16 year old little girl. You're seriously trying to tell me you think she wouldn't stop what she's doing if she hears a gun go off at close range? And that pause would be more than enough time for the officer to then use a non-lethal take down.

Absolutely no one needed to die here.

To get a police officer to make a different split-second decision, we would need a shift in training as well as clearly expressed policy preferences on a really tough question: how many people should be allowed to die violently to keep maniacs alive? It's a morally defensible position but it has to be explicit, especially if we insist that officers be trained to immediately recognize that, for example, a 1 in 4 chance of an innocent person dying violently isn't enough to merit the use of deadly force.

I thought Maryland doesn't want it?

That would suggest Democrats don't really care about giving Washington DC residents congressional representation, and just want two more Senators.

[Tendrin]

That would suggest Democrats don't really care about giving Washington DC residents congressional representation, and just want two more Senators.

We can't force Maryland to take them, Mets. And yes, while we definitely care about more Senators, I thought conservatives were all about making sure small, empty states with few voters had a proportional voice in the Senate so they weren't 'ignored'?

Oh, right. That only counts when the voters are right and white, and the GOP doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to benefitting from creating states to add Senators to the Senate. Their party, after all, did it in the 19th century, when it was the more progressive party of the two.

[Gray Lensman]

That would suggest Democrats don't really care about giving Washington DC residents congressional representation, and just want two more Senators.

Actually, it suggests the opposite. In order to avoid more Democratic senators, Republicans denigrate the city, insist an existing state take the land back over it's objections, or whatever other weasel words they can come up with, because having to try and appeal to voters rather than legislate the opposition away is just too damn hard for them to contemplate.

[CSTowle]

Thanks to the judges Trump and the Senate GOP added to POTUS, more children will be sentenced to life in prison.

Christian values.

For many on the right side of the political spectrum you're not Christian unless you're as white as the baby Jesus. Otherwise, any cage is a good cage.

If North and South Dakota became one State, their combined population would rank somewhere between Hawaii and Idaho.

DC has a larger population than either Vermont or Wyoming.

DC is more densely populated than NJ

If the land size of NJ was increased to be the same as California and the population density remained the same, New Jersey would have about 61% of the population of the entire US.

If you do the same for DC, then it would have about 6x the current population of the US.

Just a few interesting statistics.

What's the quote about lies, damn lies, and statistics? I'd rather it were one person, one vote and farmland didn't count for as much as it does (probably what happens when your election laws were established several centuries ago by Europeans used to all of the good farmland being owned/inherited in perpetuity by nobility and thus unavailable to the average citizen). If we were to do this to again fight the last battle or eke out a minor advantage now it opens the door to parceling off electoral voting blocs into, for example, LA or SF being their own entity and the rest of the state getting electoral votes separate (and perhaps different) from the larger urban areas. It'd be a move towards what I want, but I see potential drawbacks in the short term.

DC citizens should get some representation, and I'd disagree we can't force a state to accept them. There might be some negotiation involved (something gained for taking on that responsibility), but it should have been done a long time ago. But to just declare them a state for temporary advantage seems again self-serving and thus wrong to me. Again, just my opinion. But seems less about getting representation for citizens and more about gaining political advantage. As to PR, as soon as they vote to become a state it should be a no-brainer. Can't see a good argument against it.

If the GOP weren't so committed to disenfranchising people of color they'd gain a pretty reliable block of deeply Christian, conservative voters in both regions.

It is pretty stupid, only reason I can think is the racism is too deeply ingrained. I always wondered growing up (poor, as I was) what the hostility was to helping out the less fortunate or even doing things like paying for rehabilitation for prisoners or drug addicts, especially when it was the people most loudly proclaiming their Christianity usually blocking those things. Then I grew up and realized it was because most white conservatives think those things only happen to non-whites, or that the "few" who are white and fit into that category are just collateral damage in the struggle to make sure nobody darker than a good tan gets a dollar of their "hard-earned" money. I'm glad they don't do the outreach thing, both the black and latino communities tend to be more religious than whites on the whole and there might be some inroads if they treated them like human beings. Might be harder on LGBTQ+ rights, for example.

On the shooting of the girl with the knife, I think the reason we're seeing so much discussion is 1. It is more questionable than the Floyd case and 2. talking about the police possibly being justified in a shooting is probably a lot more comfortable for some (many of whom might not be joining the discussion if it were another clear case) to talk about than the larger issue of police violence and murder. If you can find a counter example it introduces doubt (at least in their minds) and makes it easier to move on and go back to ignoring the topic.

[Mister Mets]

We can't force Maryland to take them, Mets. And yes, while we definitely care about more Senators, I thought conservatives were all about making sure small, empty states with few voters had a proportional voice in the Senate so they weren't 'ignored'?

Oh, right. That only counts when the voters are right and white, and the GOP doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to benefitting from creating states to add Senators to the Senate. Their party, after all, did it in the 19th century, when it was the more progressive party of the two.

Historically, when states are added to the union, it's done in a way that avoids partisan advantage, like when Hawaii and Alaska became states at around the same time, curiously with the understanding that Hawaii would be Republican and Alaska would be Democratic.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/histo...aii-180963690/

If a heavily Democratic state like Maryland doesn't want to take the residents of DC, it does suggest the party's top priority isn't providing representation, but something else.

[Zauriel]

Will the DC want Arlington back? Some of the federal headquarters including the Pentagon are in Arlington County. Virginia took Arlington back from DC. Will Virginia give Arlington back to D.C.?

[Gray Lensman]

If a heavily Democratic state like Maryland doesn't want to take the residents of DC, it does suggest the party's top priority isn't providing representation, but something else.

Please tell us, in detail, how the State of Maryland, with its Republican governor, is an arm of the Democratic Party.

Just because groups are aligned most of the time does not mean they are on every issue. I'm pretty sure the Democratic Party wishes Andrew Cuomo would just resign and go away, but not only has he refused, the Democratic run state government doesn't seem to be pushing very hard for that to happen. A person might get the idea that the national party and a state government run entirely by members of said party aren't the same thing, an idea you seem to be insisting cannot be the case with Maryland.